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redrosetea
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It was Bishop Sheen
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UnusMilitum
Guest
You mean like the public school systems in this country, right? Oh wait…no school systems have been shut down or even reformed. Moreover, it’s only getting worse. An average of one kid a day in NYC alone! This dwarfs the stats regarding priests. OTOH, how many news stories have you even seen about child abuse in schools? Not many…but only because the MSM is only interested in defaming institutions which strive for social good, and NOT the subversion of society AKA public schools. In other words, your assertion is garbage but I forgive you for not knowing since the MSM never talks about it. God bless!
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maggiemay2u
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interesting number of posts you’ve got there…but I digress…The hierarchy will get no pass from me regarding their response, and previous decades’ absence of it, to priestly pedophilia. It’s inexcusable from any secular or religious perspective. Any secular organization that did that for so long would be shut down. Nevertheless, that situation is a separate issue and unrelated to this investigation.
It’s interesting what some people focus on. I’m far less worked up about whether all of their statements about moral theology are “officially” in line, than their statement that Jesus “is not the only son of God.”I’d be way more concerned about that piece of essential dogma.
So your saying avoid/ignore another manifestation of evil because another one was poorly handled? Officially in line? Where to begin? The homosexual activity among religious and the acceptance of abortion as an acceptable alternative to carrying to term? Holy smokes…Re:The nun who related Christ as not the only Son of God is hardly alone…many use various scripture passages to identify others, such as angels as “Sons Of God”, lets hope this was her meaning.
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Elizabeth502
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Yes, I noticed the previous number of posts.
“Where to begin” yourself. I maintain that essential dogma is way more important than moral teaching per se. (One flows from the other.) Essential dogma is at the heart of Catholic belief. (Essential as in “essence”) One doesn’t have to assume that it’s my exclusive concern, or that I don’t care about all manifestations of violated vows, which I do. But I’m not more exercised about lesbian nuns than gay priests, or than fornicating heterosexual religious of both sexes, when other Catholics go to such priests, confessing fornication. All of it is hypocrisy and scandalizing.
The nun doesn’t know who the single son of God is. That’s scary. And no, it gives me no “hope” if those who don’t understand scripture use that misunderstanding to misstate dogma. First things first.
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estesbob
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There was almost no pediophlia-over 90% of the abuse was homosexual rape of post pubsescent males. The Church has taken more action to eliminate abuse than any organization i know of. the most likely place for a child to be abused is in the home followed by their school. How many school systems do you know that have been shut down for these inecusable actions?
Its interesting how many people are so quick to cry “pediophile Priests” whenever they dont like the Chruch taking an action they dont like.It’s interesting what some people focus on. I’m far less worked up about whether all of their statements about moral theology are “officially” in line, than their statement that Jesus “is not the only son of God.”
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JReducation
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The bold in mine.
The answer to this question is, yes. Religious brothers, friars, and monks are the male counter parts of women religious. The priesthood does not have a female counterpart, but religious, whether male or female are identical commitments and vocations.
No, men do not need to become priests. Many men are religious and are not priests. In my own parish we have seven religious men. Three are priests.
- Superior of the house == not a priest, but a theologian
- Pastor == priest
- Associate 1 == priest
- Associate 2 == not a priest, but a theologian
- High School principal == priest
- Hospital chaplain == not a priest
- Parish go to guy == not a priest
Can there be women priests? No. There is no institution of a priesthood with women. It is nowhere in scripture or tradition.
But there is religious life in scripture and tradtion with men and women.
Fraternally,
JR
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Elizabeth502
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maggiemay2u
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Points of clarification.
RE:** Your unhappiness with "Jesus “is not the only son of God.”**
I merely responded the nun in question was possibly referencing the OT Genesis 6:1-4, “When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.” and NT, Galatians 3:26 “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.” and Galatians 4:7 “Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.”(New American Standard Bible) The hymn I grew up with “Sons of God”. I merely suggested her words might not be as sinister as you seem to think.
RE: Its interesting how many people are so quick to cry “pediophile Priests” whenever they dont like the Chruch taking an action they dont like.
Which “people” would those be? It wouldn’t be me.** It would be the nun(s) who were quoted in the article.**
The individual quoted in this matter is a lay-lobbyist-organizer working for the nuns, She is not, and to my knowledge has never been a member of a religious community.
RE:Hello. That’s because there has been so much of it. And that was only decades after that abuse occurred. Other organizations almost never take decades to take action.
Studies by the NYT in the late 90’s early 20’s demonstrated priests engaged in illicit sexual activities with minors at a rate less than the general pubic. The Catholic Church has been singled out for prosecution and torts. Public employees, such as police, fire, teachers, day care, parks, and so on have been protected, to this day, by confidentiality clauses in contracts. Unions and governments have been exempted by law from being sued for the actions of their employees.
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maggiemay2u
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Sorry—missed this point from your earlier post…
Some individual private schools have. No school systems that I know of, because they’re public, accountable to the public, and there have always been grievances in place by outsiders (an extremely recent addition to the RCC), as well as practices internally for handling such disciplining of professionals and violations of code. And it isn’t system-wide. Far more prevalent in the RCC from the 1940s through the 60’s, minimum. Several times a year I hear of individual teachers in various parts of my State being discovered and prosecuted. The teacher is dismissed, not “shifted to another school” so that they can find additional victims.
Secret Settlement Agreements Between School Districts and Problem Employees: Some Legal Pitfalls In part, “Given these factors, many school districts let accused child molesters resign rather than proceeding with statutory (ah, that would be legally required) discharge procedures”
springerlink.com/content/j384387224j35624/
Provide Records Related to the Prosecution of Certain Offenses to Potential Employers Involved in Caring for Minor Children, the Elderly, or the Mentally Afflicted
"For example, on June 2, 2003, Elvin Whiten, a teacher at Crim High School in east Atlanta, was charged with raping a student.[7] The teacher had been charged in 1992 with sexual battery involving another student while he was teaching at a different school.[8] Crim High School had performed a background check when it hired Mr. Whiten in 1993, but the teacher’s record appeared clear because of his first offender status.[9] "( that would be 11 years, therefore meeting your criteria of more than a decade)
law.gsu.edu/lawreview/index/archives/show/?art=20-1/20-1_LawEnforcementOfficersAndAgencies_Larkin.htm
It seems the district is only responsible when it injures another district…Richland School District v.Mabton School District
“SCHULTHEIS, J. – Richland School District hired Jesus (‘Jesse’)
Caballero as a night custodian. Afterward, it discovered that Mr.
Caballero had resigned from Mabton School District in exchange for Yakima
County’s dismissal of three counts of child molestation. Three Mabton
officials had written letters of recommendation for Mr. Caballero without
mentioning the charges of child molestation or various reprimands he had
received for inappropriate comments made to students. Richland terminated
Mr. Caballero, paid him approximately $100,000 in front and back wages, and
then sued Mabton for negligence based on misrepresentation and
nondisclosure. On cross motions for summary judgment, the trial court
found that Mabton breached no duty owed to Richland, and granted Mabton’s
motion for summary judgment.”
caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=wa&vol=2002_app/202500maj&invol=3
There are lots and lots of these examples, these are by far, not the most egregious, involving public agency employees. It;s more difficult to find the info due to the code of silence present not only among the rank and file, but also between unions and public entities.
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JReducation
Guest
This is an unfortunate situation for which all of us have to pray. There are almost 80,000 women religious who are members of this particular conference and most are innocent of these deviations from religious life and doctrine.
The problem is sorting out the wheat from the shaft. We cannot deny that many religious women in the USA have little or no training in theology, yet have become safe-made theologians and are believing and teaching things that are inconsistent with the faith tradition of the Catholic Church.
Another problem that has invaded religious life in the USA is a sense of entitlement. This sense does not come from inside the convent, but from the secular Catholic world. We see this on these threads quite often, Catholics who feel they have the right to question bishops, the Holy Father, the teachings of Vatican II, the traditions of religious life, the liturgy and many other events and content of the Catholic faith.
These women are the daughters and sisters of many of these Catholics. They enter the convent from this secularized Catholic culture contaminating the conventual life.
Before we go too far in condemning these women, let us ask ourselves if we are not breeding this sense of entitlement in our homes, thus forming the next generation of religious and clergy. Or are we teaching humility and obedience in practice in our homes and in our enviornment where we work and play?
Fraternally,
JR
The problem is sorting out the wheat from the shaft. We cannot deny that many religious women in the USA have little or no training in theology, yet have become safe-made theologians and are believing and teaching things that are inconsistent with the faith tradition of the Catholic Church.
Another problem that has invaded religious life in the USA is a sense of entitlement. This sense does not come from inside the convent, but from the secular Catholic world. We see this on these threads quite often, Catholics who feel they have the right to question bishops, the Holy Father, the teachings of Vatican II, the traditions of religious life, the liturgy and many other events and content of the Catholic faith.
These women are the daughters and sisters of many of these Catholics. They enter the convent from this secularized Catholic culture contaminating the conventual life.
Before we go too far in condemning these women, let us ask ourselves if we are not breeding this sense of entitlement in our homes, thus forming the next generation of religious and clergy. Or are we teaching humility and obedience in practice in our homes and in our enviornment where we work and play?
Fraternally,
JR
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estesbob
Guest
Good post!This is an unfortunate situation for which all of us have to pray. There are almost 80,000 women religious who are members of this particular conference and most are innocent of these deviations from religious life and doctrine.
The problem is sorting out the wheat from the shaft. We cannot deny that many religious women in the USA have little or no training in theology, yet have become safe-made theologians and are believing and teaching things that are inconsistent with the faith tradition of the Catholic Church.
Another problem that has invaded religious life in the USA is a sense of entitlement. This sense does not come from inside the convent, but from the secular Catholic world. We see this on these threads quite often, Catholics who feel they have the right to question bishops, the Holy Father, the teachings of Vatican II, the traditions of religious life, the liturgy and many other events and content of the Catholic faith.
These women are the daughters and sisters of many of these Catholics. They enter the convent from this secularized Catholic culture contaminating the conventual life.
Before we go too far in condemning these women, let us ask ourselves if we are not breeding this sense of entitlement in our homes, thus forming the next generation of religious and clergy. Or are we teaching humility and obedience in practice in our homes and in our enviornment where we work and play?
Fraternally,
JR
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holyrosary11
Guest
are you trying to imply that the Church hierarchy is misogynistic?
well then, it would be representative of society in general, wouldn’ it?
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holyrosary11
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no… Michele Pfiefer.
Why do you think Jesus came as a man? Was it because Adam’s sin of disobedience was worse than Eve’s of … being deceived?
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Mimi
Guest
This is not directly in reference to the OP’s article, but a couple books I found to be interesting and educational in explaining why and how a certain kind of feminism is probably at the root of most of the clamoring for female ordination:
Ungodly Rage: The Hidden Face of Catholic Feminism by Donna Steichen. It is heavily footnoted.
alibris.com/booksearch?binding=&mtype=&keyword=ungodly+rage
Written by a Catholic journalist who has investigated feminism on its own ground, this remarkable book fully exposes the hidden face of Catholic feminism for the first time, revealing its theoretical and psychological roots in loss of faith. A definitive account of a movement impelled by vengeful rage to revolt against all spiritual authority.
What Will Happen to God? Feminism and the Reconstruction of Christian Belief
William Oddie - written inthe '80’s
alibris.com/booksearch?binding=&mtype=&keyword=what+will+happen+to+God
The picture on the cover says a lot, although some willl no doubt find it offensive (I did). Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
"Except on the narrow issue of women priests, there has been no informed challenge to the feminist aim to eliminate from Christianity sexist language and thinking. This William Oddie provides in a pungently written book in which he exposes the fallacies of these aims, and claims that the theological implications if the feminist movement in its religious dimension are already in evidence. "
We had a certain “situation” in my city recently which made national news (sad story, really). I had gotten the Steichen title from Teresa Tomeo’s EWTN radio show when she had her on as a guest. The book came out in 1991, so it’s a bit of a history as is the Oddie book.
I would recommend these titles only be read by mature Catholics who are firm in their faith.
Lord, have mercy!
Mimi
Ungodly Rage: The Hidden Face of Catholic Feminism by Donna Steichen. It is heavily footnoted.
alibris.com/booksearch?binding=&mtype=&keyword=ungodly+rage
Written by a Catholic journalist who has investigated feminism on its own ground, this remarkable book fully exposes the hidden face of Catholic feminism for the first time, revealing its theoretical and psychological roots in loss of faith. A definitive account of a movement impelled by vengeful rage to revolt against all spiritual authority.
What Will Happen to God? Feminism and the Reconstruction of Christian Belief
William Oddie - written inthe '80’s
alibris.com/booksearch?binding=&mtype=&keyword=what+will+happen+to+God
The picture on the cover says a lot, although some willl no doubt find it offensive (I did). Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
"Except on the narrow issue of women priests, there has been no informed challenge to the feminist aim to eliminate from Christianity sexist language and thinking. This William Oddie provides in a pungently written book in which he exposes the fallacies of these aims, and claims that the theological implications if the feminist movement in its religious dimension are already in evidence. "
We had a certain “situation” in my city recently which made national news (sad story, really). I had gotten the Steichen title from Teresa Tomeo’s EWTN radio show when she had her on as a guest. The book came out in 1991, so it’s a bit of a history as is the Oddie book.
I would recommend these titles only be read by mature Catholics who are firm in their faith.
Lord, have mercy!
Mimi
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estesbob
Guest
I susepcty it had something to do with the SON of God neing a man.no… Michele Pfiefer.
Why do you think Jesus came as a man? Was it because Adam’s sin of disobedience was worse than Eve’s of … being deceived?
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maggiemay2u
Guest
The real tragedy is this garbage is being taught at “catholic” universities, such as USD, the Alma Mater of Aisha S. Taylor, the spokeswoman noted, where she graduated with a BA in Interdisciplinary Humanities with an emphasis on feminist liberation religious studies…swell…
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