Vatican proposes EU as example of Social Doctrine

[Vouthon]

Hate to quote the vile “Breitbart” organisation or even pretend that it constitutes a news outlet but it does appear to be the only one covering this:

Vatican Proposes EU as Example of ‘a Supranational State’

The EU is “an example of what could become a supranational state,” according to the Vatican Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences.

www.breitbart.com

(Just look at the anti-Catholic xenophobia in the comments section. It’s enough to make you lose faith in humanity entirely.)

Here is a link to the actual document published today by the Pontifical Council of Social Sciences:

http://www.pass.va/content/scienzesociali/en/events/2019-23/nations.html

The world is facing today a growing threat of nationalist revival. Exclusivist national ideology leads to mutual rejection and enduring conflicts. Yet humanity has learned from its history that nations can coexist, cooperate and prosper together when they put their potential in common…

The social doctrine of the Church gives radically new insights into international relations.

The Church draws on two inseparable principles that are bedded in the very dynamic of human history and go much ahead of current political practices, namely: the unity of humankind and the universal destination of the goods of the earth. These principles do not contradict but illustrate the fundamental Christian view according to which the human person and not the ethnic group or the nation or the national state is considered as the ultimate reference of all social organization.

In the present stage of its development, humanity disposes of all possible technical means to organize itself in a cooperative and peaceful way. Yet the minds are still shaped by stereotypes of exclusion of the “other”. We witness a worrying tendency of nations or nation states to close themselves, insisting on their supposed interests. Globalization and migrations inspire the fear that nations could lose their cultural identity and their political independence.

The social doctrine of the Church stresses that a state, as a voluntary political construction, always has to be adjusted to the pursuit of a common good. When this common good goes beyond what a single nation-state may reach by itself, it is natural that it be pursued by supranational political bodies vested with appropriate sovereignty. Peoples may perceive themselves as belonging to a broader entity than a nation-state without being threatened in their national feeling.

The social doctrine considers that a legitimate authority must be able to serve the common good at all relevant levels. Challenges like ecology, particularly climate change, human trafficking, energy, defence, regulation of the globalized economy cannot be dealt with by competing sovereign national states alone.

The European Union is an example of what could become a supranational state with precise and limited sovereignty in matters of European common good. The social doctrine of the Church calls this the principle of subsidiarity which does not destroy national autonomies but rather protects them from the illusion of exclusive state sovereignty.

 

[Vouthon]

It’s a commonly used phrase in the English language, not a declaration of ideological or religious commitment. Chillax my friend.

By the way, I’m not sure what your post contributes to the topic since it appears to be off-topic i.e. Pontifical Council document on nationalism, the EU and supranationalism.

For the record, nowhere did I say that I regarded myself as “better” than anyone else, so I have no idea where you are getting that from. I simply stated that the expressions of anti-Catholic prejudice in the comments section of that website under the article were sobering and dispiriting, which they are.

I’m not speaking about the individual people who comprise it, only the words and views they are voicing.

 

[Vouthon]

Thank you for the clarification! I had thought otherwise at first because you had quoted me rather than them.

I appreciate your explanation.

 

[PickyPicky]

Just look at the anti-Catholic xenophobia in the comments section

Yes, extraordinarily unpleasant. And some of the anti-EU stuff is vile, too.

As to the EU, it always strikes me as odd when Catholics, of all people, express strong antagonism towards the idea of supranational authority.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

Hang on I thought China was the shining example of catholic social doctrine in practice. Pretty sure a Cardinal told me that just a few months ago.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

I worked a job at a pub one time in the U.K. The other staff would always have me serve the American customers, which they would identify by their accents, as an odd joke. I’d take their order and ask them where they were from. 80% of the time the customers were from Canada. The rest of the time they were from the complete opposite side of the country from me and had zero familiarity with where I grew up. I never really did get it through the staff’s heads that I lived farther away from the Canadians than they did from Poland. As far as they were concerned, the Canadians were the loyal Americans and the US were the rebellious ones. But hey, same continent I suppose.

 

[twf]

You could stack Germany five times from Canada’s southern border to its northern border. That’s just one direction…

 

[twf]

Yet it’s a trend that goes back centuries. Smaller European nations, with their own languages and cultures, have gradually unified to form larger modern states. Germany and Italy are significantly younger than the USA in their current configurations as unified states.
Do you advocate for Cornish independence? How far do we take this?

 

[Kaninchen]

Hate to quote the vile “Breitbart” organisation or even pretend that it constitutes a news outlet but it does appear to be the only one covering this:

Breitbart trying to frighten the DUP into even greater hostility to the EU?

 

[Theo520]

I’d say the EU went too far towards centralization. A weaker central authority would have been better as a start. In the US we call the tug of war State’s Rights vs Federal Rights.

 

[PickyPicky]

Loathsome? That’s a nasty thing to say about my native idiolect. The Scots should revert to Scots, but there’s something loathsome about a London dialect?

 

[PickyPicky]

And yet everything you have posted about small nations losing their identity in a union sounds exactly like antagonism towards the idea of supranational authority.

 

[PickyPicky]

I’d say the EU went too far towards centralization. A weaker central authority would have been better as a start. In the US we call the tug of war State’s Rights vs Federal Rights

Yes, that’s a reasonable point of view. But I would hold that the needs are more nuanced — more attention to the principle of subsidiarity, more centralisation where that’s needed. Even the US regards national defence, for instance, as a federal issue (and I wouldn’t go far as the US in the centralisation of that power).

 

[Vouthon]

He should visit Scotland.

300 years of union with England hasn’t dented our national identity or cultural traditions one bit.

Most of us still blend Scots and Gaelic words, depending upon region, with everyday normal English.

A person from abroad would think we were speaking a foreign language at times, to hear certain Scots.

 

[Vouthon]

I would say you are severely overestating the prevalence of cockneyization. Some kids might think it’s fashionable to imitate their favourite R’n’b Londoner hip-hop artist’s manner of speech, but that’s hardly a widespread phenomenon, much less anything I would lose sleep over!

Out and about in Glasgow, Edinburgh or Aberdeen, I practically never hear such vocalization/pronunciation. My cousin is a Londoner and there is no other Scottish person I know who says “fink” instead of “think” like him. That’s not a prevalent colloquialism here.

Cockney is a high-pitched, sort of squeaky patois, whereas Scottish accents are very deep and manly.

A number of years back, though (and this is rather amusing), the foreign office prohibited a Russian woman’s application to learn English in Scotland rather than London or Cambridge on the following basis: “You cannot satisfactorily explain why you have chosen to attend an English course in Scotland rather than your other options of Oxford or Cambridge, where you should face less difficulty understanding a regional accent".

That said, Inverness in the Highlands has long prided itself on having the best command of spoken English in the UK, outside of her Her Majesty the Queen.

 

[AuldP]

No, but 50 years of wall to wall American TV has certainly homogenised some younger peoples dialect into some kind of mid atlantic whine! If I hear my youngest declare just once more “Well, and I was like…” - then it might be time to scud her erse. Lol. However, I digress. I find it perplexing that anyone from the U.S can accuse the E.U. of weakening cultural identity when the biggest culprits are large U.S. Media networks.

 

[Vouthon]

Haha, yeah - hate to agree with you that the dreaded middle-Americanism “like” has become very common this side of the pond amongst youngsters as well hasn’t it?

Many people in their teens and twenties now use it after every sentence. “I was like…you know what I mean like…”

I will admit that I even do it without thinking sometimes.

But that hasn’t destroyed native colloquialisms, even though it is irritating. Geordies from Newcastle still speak with their distinctive Northern twang (made famous on GoT among the Starks) and say, ‘Why aye man’!

If anyone is concerned that regional British accents are being undermined by London-centrism or Americanism in the media, then they really ought to watch “Geordie Shore”.

 

[AuldP]

Cockney is a high-pitched, sort of squeaky patois, whereas Scottish accents are very deep and manly.

Yes, Both my daughters accents are deep and manly!
Oh Vouthon… re-read your post and stop being so unintentionally racist. I suppose your excuse is that you spent last night eating too much haggis and supping Uisge Beatha from the quaich! Lol

 

[Vouthon]

I suppose your excuse is that you spent last night eating too much haggis and supping Uisge Beatha from the quaich!

Yes, with my tartan kilt on (absent any underwear, of course, as befits a true Scotsman), swigging drams of whisky and watching Braveheart to the music of the proclaimers, while I danced a highland jig. Oh and a bowl of porridge, can’t forget that!

Of course, not all Scottish voices are manly and Cockneys squeaky but that is the stereotyping joke, isn’t it?

I was being facetious mainly in front of our American friends (who are liable to buy the stereotypes more easily) and in response to that other poster from the States who seems obsessed with retaining colloquialisms as a sort of cryogenic linguistic project.

I’m treating the topic with the lack of seriousness I think it deserves, since it boggles my mind that anyone in America might lose sleep over the use of “f” in place of a “th” in a tiny pocket of another continent.

BTW Tracey Ullman actually did a rather funny sketch of SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon, a year or two back, in which she mocked every national stereotype possible:

 

[abucs]

The great evil of history in the west is not nationalism but collectivism.

People used to teach for example what was wrong with Hitler’s National Socialism was the nationalist part. Clearly in light of the history of the 20th century this is untenable. It was the socialist part.

There is good nationalism and bad nationalism. Generally speaking the bad nationalism appears on the Left and it is tied to a victim complex that justifies violence in the name of righting historic wrongs - Hitler’s national socialism, the Irish republican army, the basque separatists, the Palestinian guerrillas. All on the Left who justify violence and demean another group of people who they believe have taken something from them.

Good nationalism is generally of the non left side of politics. It does not demean another group nor believe it is owed something from a different group of people. It is a positive force that wishes to acknowledge and strengthen bonds between people and respect the bonds of people in other countries in an environment of mutual respect.

The pope is wrong here.