Vatican reaches out to atheists – but not you, Richard Dawkins

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What is the rationale behind not debating people like Dawkins?

I would be interested in listening to Dawkins debate Church representatives, but not so interested in listening to an unknown atheist do so. Hitchens also is very entertaining in debates, and I’ve listened to both men debate for entertainment as well as educational value.

If the Vatican really wants to reach atheists, it would make more sense to debate these popular figures, simply because then atheists will be interested in listening to the debate and would hear the Church’s point of view.
 
flyingfish said:
What is the rationale behind not debating people like Dawkins?

I would be interested in listening to Dawkins debate Church representatives, but not so interested in listening to an unknown atheist do so. Hitchens also is very entertaining in debates, and I’ve listened to both men debate for entertainment as well as educational value.

If the Vatican really wants to reach atheists, it would make more sense to debate these popular figures, simply because then atheists will be interested in listening to the debate and would hear the Church’s point of view.
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Why give either of these men any more attention? Dawkins isn’t interested in debating. He’s interested in getting his point across only. He’s not interested in having a rational, balanced debate. Same with Hitchens. All they’re interested in is taking you down. It’s better to talk with someone who is more open minded. And what’s the point of bringing either of these men into the picture because they’ll just bring up the same boring fallacies that they have brought up in every other so called debate, the church’s hatred of science, condoms in Africa, creationism. The same old boring nonsense. They don’t deserve another stand to promote their ideology.
 
Of course I can’t say for sure, but I would wager they aren’t being invited not because they athiests, but because they are anti-theists.
 
You invite philosophers and theologians to a philosophy and theology discourse…

I think it goes without saying, neither Dawkins nor Hitchens has any real conception of in-depth matters on philosophy or theology - whilst they may win some high-school level discussions with rhetoric and ad hominems the actual crux of the matter is they cannot argue against a religion they do not understand. This is clearly manifested in this;

Oxford theologian Alister McGrath (author of The Dawkins Delusion and Dawkin’s God) maintains that Dawkins is ignorant of Christian theology, and therefore unable to engage religion and faith intelligently. In reply, Dawkins asks “do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in leprechauns?”

Placing pop-“thinkers” into a serious discussion on theology would be as ridiculous as placing flat earthers in a astrology commission.

👍
 
Habesha said:
Why give either of these men any more attention? Dawkins isn’t interested in debating. He’s interested in getting his point across only. He’s not interested in having a rational, balanced debate. Same with Hitchens. All they’re interested in is taking you down.
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That’s right. Why include Hawkins and Hitchens in a real debate? Their interests do not go beyond mockery and entertainment.

"RICHARD DAWKINS, the atheist campaigner, is planning a legal ambush to have the Pope arrested during his state visit to Britain “for crimes against humanity”.

Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the atheist author, have asked human rights lawyers to produce a case for charging Pope Benedict XVI over his alleged cover-up of sexual abuse in the Catholic church."

Read timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7094310.ece .

But I would like to see Hawkins or Hitchens go toe-to-toe with Fr. Robert Spitzer SJ Phd. Fr. Spitzer’s new book New Proofs for the Existence of God: Contributions of Contemporary Physics and Philosophy. His talk with Father Pacwa on the Big Bang theory and Intelligent Design last night on EWTN kept me up! It should be on the site video library soon or you might catch it on a rerun on the station.

Here’s a link to watch in the near future, for those who believe or doubt that faith and reason converge:

magisreasonfaith.org/news.htm
 
It sounds to me like the Church doesn’t want to surround themselves with people, like Dawkins and Hitchens, who will ask them tough questions.

Instead, they want to meet with people who are " open minded" and will tell the Church how wonderful they are.
 
Zatzat said:
It sounds to me like the Church doesn’t want to surround themselves with people, like Dawkins and Hitchens, who will ask them tough questions.

Instead, they want to meet with people who are " open minded" and will tell the Church how wonderful they are.
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LOL you honestly think that Hitchens and Dawkins are the ones to ask questions. Wow. Have you seen the type of questions they ask. These are the tough questions I’ve seen them ask in the past of the Catholic Church:
  1. Church and science
  2. condoms in Africa
  3. priestly celibacy
  4. homosexuality
Same old. Boring. Dawkins and Hitchens said they wanted the Pope arrested when he came to Britain. These men deserve NO MORE ATTENTION.
 
Habesha said:
LOL you honestly think that Hitchens and Dawkins are the ones to ask questions. Wow. Have you seen the type of questions they ask. These are the tough questions I’ve seen them ask in the past of the Catholic Church:
  1. Church and science
  2. condoms in Africa
  3. priestly celibacy
  4. homosexuality
Same old. Boring. Dawkins and Hitchens said they wanted the Pope arrested when he came to Britain. These men deserve NO MORE ATTENTION.
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Don’t forget about Misogyny and the crusades.
 
I know a professor who’s hoping that Dawkins will have a deathbed conversion. Who knows, anything is possible with God. :cool:
 
curlycool89 said:
I know a professor who’s hoping that Dawkins will have a deathbed conversion. Who knows, anything is possible with God. :cool:
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To what faith? Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, Scientology, Pantheism, Janism, etc…?
 
Zatzat said:
It sounds to me like the Church doesn’t want to surround themselves with people, like Dawkins and Hitchens, who will ask them tough questions.

Instead, they want to meet with people who are " open minded" and will tell the Church how wonderful they are.
Click to expand...
On the contrary, people like Dawkins and Hitchens simply have their own belief system and their concerns do not include engagement, just spreading their disbelief. You should look up the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.

God bless,
Ed
 
Those two put my sig to the test alright. The best reason I can give is that they don’t deserve to represent all of atheists in the world. Lord help them, and all atheists, to seek the Truth with an open heart.
 
I agree with InSearchofGrace! I watched Fr Spitzer on EWTN Live Wed night and AGAIN on Thursday morning rebroadcast. Actually took notes - Just fascinating! God is so SMART! What is man that YOU are mindful of him? :extrahappy:
 
flyingfish said:
What is the rationale behind not debating people like Dawkins?

I would be interested in listening to Dawkins debate Church representatives, but not so interested in listening to an unknown atheist do so. Hitchens also is very entertaining in debates, and I’ve listened to both men debate for entertainment as well as educational value.

If the Vatican really wants to reach atheists, it would make more sense to debate these popular figures, simply because then atheists will be interested in listening to the debate and would hear the Church’s point of view.
Click to expand...
Maybe they are trying to raise the level of the debate rather than infotain.
 
JohnDamian said:
You invite philosophers and theologians to a philosophy and theology discourse…

I think it goes without saying, neither Dawkins nor Hitchens has any real conception of in-depth matters on philosophy or theology - whilst they may win some high-school level discussions with rhetoric and ad hominems the actual crux of the matter is they cannot argue against a religion they do not understand. This is clearly manifested in this;

Oxford theologian Alister McGrath (author of The Dawkins Delusion and Dawkin’s God) maintains that Dawkins is ignorant of Christian theology, and therefore unable to engage religion and faith intelligently. In reply, Dawkins asks “do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in leprechauns?”

Placing pop-“thinkers” into a serious discussion on theology would be as ridiculous as placing flat earthers in a astrology commission.

👍
Click to expand...
Bingo!

Dawkins and Hitchens really are nobodies, despite what Dawkins and Hitchens fanboys think.
 
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