Vatican "Regrets" European Court Ruling on Crucifix, Spokesman Defends Symbol of Italian Culture, Identity

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ZENIT.org News Agency:
VATICAN CITY, NOV. 3, 2009 (Zenit.org)

The Vatican expressed “astonishment” and “regret” at Tuesday’s decision from the European Court of Human Rights that crucifixes in public school classrooms are a violation of freedom.

Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, director of the Vatican press office, gave a brief statement today to Vatican Radio in response to the decision.

“The crucifix has always been a sign of God’s offer of love, of union and of welcome for the whole of humanity,” the spokesman said. “It is to be regretted that it has come to be considered as a sign of division, of exclusion and of limitation of liberty. It is not this, and it is not so in the common feeling of our people.”

The Italian government protested the ruling, having contended that crucifixes – often hung in Italian public schools – are national symbol of culture and history.

Father Lombardi echoed this idea.

He called particularly grave “the desire to set aside from the educational world a fundamental sign of the importance of religious values in Italian history and culture.”

The Jesuit added that “religion makes a precious contribution to a person’s formation and moral growth, and is an essential component of our civilization. It is mistaken and myopic to want to exclude it from the educational realm.”

“It is astonishing then that a European court should intervene weightily in a matter profoundly linked to the historical, cultural and spiritual identity of the Italian people,” the Vatican spokesman stated.

Father Lombardi said decisions like this one do not make a person “attracted to love and share ever more the European idea, which as Italian Catholics we have strongly supported since its origins.”

“It seems,” he suggested, “that there is a desire to ignore the role of Christianity in the formation of European identity, which instead has been and remains essential.”
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Slowly but surely, mankind will continue in their attempts to eradicate Christianity. 😦
 
Is anyone familiar with the relationship between the EC and the Italian State? Is this ruling binding and compulsory or more recommendation? This is what happens when nation-states offer up sovereignty to international organizations, especially the EU which is dominated by post- Christian protestant states.
 
All this was started by a person from Finland who became an Italian citizen. I can’t understand why people do that. They should revoke her citizenship and deport her to Finland. Sorry if that sounds callous but she didn’t mind taking Italian heritage to court…and changing it. I can’t remember if Italy is part of the European Union but they should pull out of it.:knight2::nunchuk:
 
A.Pelliccio said:
Is anyone familiar with the relationship between the EC and the Italian State? Is this ruling binding and compulsory or more recommendation? This is what happens when nation-states offer up sovereignty to international organizations, especially the EU which is dominated by post- Christian protestant states.
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This has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU.

This was the European Court of Human Rights which was set up under the European Convention on Human Rights in 1950. Italy is a signed-up member, along with over-40 other European countries.

There are procedures if a Government refuses to comply - it can go on for ages and ages. Given the rate of swiftness of the judicial system in Italy, around about the time of the next Ice Age could be an informed guess.
 
CatholicFireman said:
All this was started by a person from Finland who became an Italian citizen. I can’t understand why people do that. They should revoke her citizenship and deport her to Finland.
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Can’t do that, EU nationals have the right to live anywhere within the EU, like US nationals can live anywhere in the US.
Sorry if that sounds callous but she didn’t mind taking Italian heritage to court…and changing it. I can’t remember if Italy is part of the European Union but they should pull out of it.:knight2::nunchuk:
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You’re not callous, just wrong.

The EU had nothing whatsoever to do with the case.
 
Can’t do that, EU nationals have the right to live anywhere within the EU, like US nationals can live anywhere in the US.
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I repeat. Then they should pull out of the EU. And I don’t think that’s wrong.

From what I’ve seen the EU is more trouble than it’s worth. I know you live there so you have a more informed opinion of it but this is from what I’ve seen.

If they start eradicating Christianity what comes next? Judaism?
 
Of course they can refuse. the European Court has no authority in a sovreign nation. Even if appeals are unsuccessful about the most they can accomplish is to expel them from the EC. It’s not like the EC has a standing military presence in Italy.
 
Even if appeals are unsuccessful about the most they can accomplish is to expel them from the EC.
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Doesn’t sound like a bad idea for Italy if you ask me.😉
 
Now then, how can I say this in a charitable manner?

I know:

THIS DECISION HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE EUROPEAN UNION.
 
Then ignore the posts. This is just a forum so just relax.

Part of me wants to write in bold red letters to leave us Catholics/Christians alone (i.e. the reason for this thread in the first place) but I know this is just a forum for opinions.

Like I said. Relax. Pax†
 
CatholicFireman said:
Then ignore the posts. This is just a forum so just relax.

Part of me wants to write in bold red letters to leave us Catholics/Christians alone (i.e. the reason for this thread in the first place) but I know this is just a forum for opinions.

Like I said. Relax. Pax†
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But this is not just ANY forum - this is a Catholic one. And one expects that Catholics would attempt to inform themselves about the question to hand and not just go off on the European-Union-ate-my-hamster- style responses that prevail whenever anything European comes up on these fora.

There are now five threads relating to this subject and in each one American posters immediately pour scorn on the EU when it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EU, so I share Kaninchen’s frustration.
 
Yellow_Belle said:
There are now five threads relating to this subject and in each one American posters immediately pour scorn on the EU when it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EU, so I share Kaninchen’s frustration.
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Are you suggesting that we over-generalize, paint with a broad brush, put everything European in the same boat? Each one of us?

Pot/kettle :rolleyes:
 
pnewton said:
Are you suggesting that we over-generalize, paint with a broad brush, put everything European in the same boat? Each one of us?

Pot/kettle :rolleyes:
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If you had bothered to read my post, the ‘each one’ qualifies the other threads on this subject and not American posters. And if you had bothered to read the other threads, you would have seen that it was not an over-generalisation. A majority of the American posters on those threads jumped immediately to the conclusion that this ruling was another example of the naughtiness (as Kaninchen would put it) of the EU.
 
Yellow_Belle said:
If you had bothered to read my post, the ‘each one’ qualifies the other threads on this subject and not American posters. And if you had bothered to read the other threads, you would have seen that it was not an over-generalisation. A majority of the American posters on those threads jumped immediately to the conclusion that this ruling was another example of the naughtiness (as Kaninchen would put it) of the EU.
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I stand corrected. I missed the pronoun antecedent. It is not that I did not bother to read the other threads, though, as much as I do not know what threads you have been having issue with.
 
Isn’t it amazing how we are just trying to defiend/show our anger at a decision that attacks the Catholic Church in Italy and right away we get attacked by “catholic” europeans (oops…sorry…one is jewish/jewess) about the EU.

If I was wrong about this decision by the European court about this case and mistakenly mistakenly blamed “the great” eu then I apologize. IMHO I still say this whole decision is wrong and Italy should be defiant.

As far as I’m concerned this arguement is over.

God Bless.
 
CatholicFireman said:
Isn’t it amazing how we are just trying to defiend/show our anger at a decision that attacks the Catholic Church in Italy and right away we get attacked by “catholic” europeans (oops…sorry…one is jewish/jewess) about the EU.
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If we were to comment on something in the US and blamed completely the wrong organization/set of people, the amount of fuss would be inordinate.
 
CatholicFireman said:
Isn’t it amazing how we are just trying to defiend/show our anger at a decision that attacks the Catholic Church in Italy and right away we get attacked by “catholic” europeans (oops…sorry…one is jewish/jewess) about the EU.

If I was wrong about this decision by the European court about this case and mistakenly mistakenly blamed “the great” eu then I apologize. IMHO I still say this whole decision is wrong and Italy should be defiant.

As far as I’m concerned this arguement is over.

God Bless.
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No ‘if’ about it - you were and are wrong. As Kaninchen has noted, if a European came on here and commented on something in the US and expressed opprobrium against the wrong organisation or group, we would never hear the end of it.

There are many legitimate reasons for criticising the European Union - Europeans do so all the time - and the EU is neither perfect nor ‘great’. No reasonable person objects to fair and fact-based criticism but comment in these threads on the EU has been neither fair nor fact-based. In some cases it has been little more than sneering contempt.

As for your ‘apology’, I for one do not accept it as I suspect from the terms in which it is couched that it is insincere. Furthermore, you have impugned my Catholicism which I believe is against forum rules.
 
Yellow_Belle said:
No ‘if’ about it - you were and are wrong. As Kaninchen has noted, if a European came on here and commented on something in the US and expressed opprobrium against the wrong organisation or group, we would never hear the end of it.

There are many legitimate reasons for criticising the European Union - Europeans do so all the time - and the EU is neither perfect nor ‘great’. No reasonable person objects to fair and fact-based criticism but comment in these threads on the EU has been neither fair nor fact-based. In some cases it has been little more than sneering contempt.

As for your ‘apology’, I for one do not accept it as I suspect from the terms in which it is couched that it is insincere. Furthermore, you have impugned my Catholicism which I believe is against forum rules.
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Just an observation here… but YOU have impugned your Catholicism by refusing to forgive. I had no intention of causing the hostility that appears to have erupted as a result of starting this thread. I’ll ask the mod to please remove it. Please, in the future try to be more charitable.
 
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