Vatican releases findings of the Apostolic Visitation in Ireland

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In communicating this summary of the Findings of the Apostolic Visitation this morning, the Holy See re-echoes the sense of dismay and betrayal which the Holy Father expressed in his Letter to the Catholics of Ireland regarding the sinful and criminal acts that were at the root of this particular crisis…

During their stay in Ireland, the Visitators were able themselves to see just how much the shortcomings of the past gave rise to an inadequate understanding of and reaction to the terrible phenomenon of the abuse of minors, not least on the part of various Bishops and Religious Superiors. With a great sense of pain and shame, it must be acknowledged that within the Christian community innocent young people were abused by clerics and Religious to whose care they had been entrusted, while those who should have exercised vigilance often failed to do so effectively…

At the same time the Visitators were able to verify that, beginning in the 1990s, progressive steps have been taken towards a greater awareness of how serious is the problem of abuse, both in the Church and society, and how necessary it is to find adequate measures in response.

Full summary: radiovaticana.org/en1/Articolo.asp?c=572889
 
lizardley said:
In communicating this summary of the Findings of the Apostolic Visitation this morning, the Holy See re-echoes the sense of dismay and betrayal which the Holy Father expressed in his Letter to the Catholics of Ireland regarding the sinful and criminal acts that were at the root of this particular crisis…

During their stay in Ireland, the Visitators were able themselves to see just how much the shortcomings of the past gave rise to an inadequate understanding of and reaction to the terrible phenomenon of the abuse of minors, not least on the part of various Bishops and Religious Superiors. With a great sense of pain and shame, it must be acknowledged that within the Christian community innocent young people were abused by clerics and Religious to whose care they had been entrusted, while those who should have exercised vigilance often failed to do so effectively…

At the same time the Visitators were able to verify that, beginning in the 1990s, progressive steps have been taken towards a greater awareness of how serious is the problem of abuse, both in the Church and society, and how necessary it is to find adequate measures in response.

Full summary: radiovaticana.org/en1/Articolo.asp?c=572889
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The problem is more vast than Ireland.
And deeper.
 
The Vatican has released a comprehensive report on the struggles of the Catholic Church in Ireland, concentrating on the response to the sex-abuse scandal but also addressing the issue of …

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Vincent Brown a chat show each night, on RTE, is now discussing this. One of the panel is a past altar boy abuse victim, who wrote a book, the other a newspaper reporter against the catholic church and a retired catholic priest, who so far mentioned that all he knows is that an Irish archbishop berrated a vatican archbishop when he asked the Irish bishops to place things through the vatican first, by canon law. I am SO sick of this, the entire discussion is about the Vatican cover up and nothing else. Can no-one in the world defend the Vatican’s position regarding this accusation, why is there never anyone that can debate the situation at least?

The reporter says: "If there is something malign in an institution (i.e. the CC) then the entire church is corrupt - No-one gives any succint argument against that, i.e. we’re all members of the church, we are not all corrupt. That the CC’s teachings have remained the same for 2000 years!

It really is very frustrating.
 
Vincent Brown has now asked the priest did other priests not discuss with each the problems of being celebate? I mean, what type of question is that to ask a priest or any other human being. The priest says “no, not really - it’s personal, men do not usually (and married) talk about these things among themselves”. It is between the priest and his confessor and God. Why would priests make more temptation for themselves by talking to each other about their temptations.

I think one of the problems is that ‘priests’ in these type of discussions, by their nature, are too naive and innocent and try to give inoffensive answers. I think a strong lay catholic would be better at these sort of discussions.
 
This is a good report. Ireland needed to hear the truth about how horribly many dropped the ball over there. Whether it be the scandal or simply encouraging dissent from the Magisterium, etc. But I also read a lot of promising things as well, the substantial efforts made in the meantime to restore the Church. Now that everything is out in the light, things will only go up from here (internally anyways). May Christ continue to lead Ireland back into restoration that it may once more sit as a beacon of hope for Catholics the world over.
 
pepipop said:
That the CC’s teachings have remained the same for 2000 years!

It really is very frustrating.
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Good evening, Pepipop,

Teaching the same thing for 2,000 years means that the Holy Roman Catholic Church is faithful to her God given mission.

God loves you,
Don
 
Fiasco said:
But Ireland has its own unique issues feeding it.

Deeper al right! As deep as the deepest pit of hell!
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As deep as the deepest pit of hell!
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Everywhere fits the description of what you said,
What is the difference of ireland? The percentage of Catholics is 100% almost what does not happen in Australia or the USA.
So, when it bangs, is bangs louder…
 
donsnow said:
Good evening, Pepipop,

Teaching the same thing for 2,000 years means that the Holy Roman Catholic Church is faithful to her God given mission.

God loves you,
Don
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Thanks Don, it just gets me so frustrated. A committed lay catholic ‘crusader’, good at debating, would be fabulous at these discussions and would also help to bring back a lot of lapsed catholics - I think that’s the most frustrating part the lapsed catholics, as after such discussions everything remains the same there are no arguments used to encourage them to return to the church.
 
This is a good report. Ireland needed to hear the truth about how horribly many dropped the ball over there. Whether it be the scandal or simply encouraging dissent from the Magisterium, etc. But I also read a lot of promising things as well, the substantial efforts made in the meantime to restore the Church. Now that everything is out in the light, things will only go up from here (internally anyways). May Christ continue to lead Ireland back into restoration that it may once more sit as a beacon of hope for Catholics the world over.
 
pepipop said:
Thanks Don, it just gets me so frustrated. A committed lay catholic ‘crusader’, good at debating, would be fabulous at these discussions and would also help to bring back a lot of lapsed catholics - I think that’s the most frustrating part the lapsed catholics, as after such discussions everything remains the same there are no arguments used to encourage them to return to the church.
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Good evening, pepipop,

Unfortunately, most of the survivors of priestly sexual abuse are not mature enough spiritually to escape the old “They can’t know unless they’ve been there” syndrome. You would need a survivor, not a victim, of sexual abuse to be your lay Catholic crusader, to bring them back. (The victim is still drunk on self-pity and a survivor is clinging to the truth in Christ, and going on with their lives.)

And, also, the Bishops’ covering up instead of punishing or treating the abusers before returning them to duty anywhere does not help … that’s inexcusable.

So, I’m aware of your frustration. All I can say, is, just keep praying on it.

God loves you,
Don
 
pepipop said:
Thanks Don, it just gets me so frustrated. A committed lay catholic ‘crusader’, good at debating, would be fabulous at these discussions and would also help to bring back a lot of lapsed catholics - I think that’s the most frustrating part the lapsed catholics, as after such discussions everything remains the same there are no arguments used to encourage them to return to the church.
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Although it’s directed more at frustrated Americans, I think this is a very good start:

wordonfire.org/WOF-TV/Commentaries-New/Fr-Barron-comments-on-Leaving-The-Church.aspx
 
donsnow said:
Unfortunately, most of the survivors of priestly sexual abuse are not mature enough spiritually to escape the old “They can’t know unless they’ve been there” syndrome. You would need a survivor, not a victim, of sexual abuse to be your lay Catholic crusader, to bring them back. (The victim is still drunk on self-pity and a survivor is clinging to the truth in Christ, and going on with their lives.)
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This paragraph makes me extremely angry. Criticize the victim of sexual abuse? Really? And they’re not mature because the don’t go crawling back to the organization who’s representative abuse him/her?

I have not been sexually abused, but know people VERY, VERY close to me that have. Calling them immature is to not have the vaguest clue about the damage this grave evil causes.
 
yes, it was a good report. i would say that we dropped the ball over here as well. hopefully, not only in ireland and the u.s., but around the world, they will take a look more fervently as to qualifications for entering the seminary and becoming a priest. if the Catholic church wants to regain the trust and respect around the world that it has lost since these sex abuse scandals begun, there has to be something in place to prevent these types of priests from gaining entry to the priesthood and abusing and harming victims and causing so much scandal and disgrace to the Church. i only wonder how many people have left the Catholic church because of these scandals or how many might have been thinking of becoming Catholic, but decided against it, because of the horror of what has happened and wondering how these horrors could have happened over and over again for so many years in the one holy and apostolic Church set up by Jesus Christ himself. there is nothing more beautiful in the world to me than the Catholic faith and i want to see it flourish and to set an example, so i pray that these sex abuse scandals will be wiped out and cease to exist so that people will restore their vision of the Catholic church as being a beacon of lifght. how such darkness was allowed to enter the Church and continue for so long is still a mystery to me. maybe i am naive to the ways of the world. i became a Catholic in 2008 and began preparing the way to the Church in the late 1990’s when so much bad publicity was coming out not only in my diocese, but around the country. it was not easy to continue the journey to conversion. i stopped and restarted several times, mainly because of this scandal, so i can understand how these scandals have harmed the people of Ireland.
 
ValPal said:
This paragraph makes me extremely angry. Criticize the victim of sexual abuse? Really? And they’re not mature because the don’t go crawling back to the organization who’s representative abuse him/her?

I have not been sexually abused, but know people VERY, VERY close to me that have. Calling them immature is to not have the vaguest clue about the damage this grave evil causes.
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i totally agree with donsnow on this issue, they are not moving on. It seem self pity and looking for people to blame is a way to deflect the whole thing. The problem is, that method just leaves you no better and please dont say i dont understand the damage because im sure you dont know me.
Ubenedictus
 
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