Vatican responds to CDF official’s “coming out” [CNA]

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CatholicFireman said:
That’s what I call “the old drop back and punt” excuse for hating the Catholic Church.

The scandals are not something to be taken lightly, but not matter what the Church does or will do to make amends it will not be good enough because that’s the secular world’s “ace in the hole”.
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And don’t forget the Crusades.
 
CatholicFireman said:
That’s what I call “the old drop back and punt” excuse for hating the Catholic Church.

The scandals are not something to be taken lightly, but not matter what the Church does or will do to make amends it will not be good enough because that’s the secular world’s “ace in the hole”.
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I understand where you are coming from but I’m not citing people who are naturally inclined to hate Catholicism. Scandals are genuinely scandalous for a lot of people.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
I understand where you are coming from but I’m not citing people who are naturally inclined to hate Catholicism. Scandals are genuinely scandalous for a lot of people.
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I know, it just seems that we’re the ones with the biggest target on our backs (and fronts).

Fr. Groeschel’s reasoning was because we’re the biggest so they pick on us.
 
But if there were still an Inquisition, arguably there would have been fewer Catholics going bad…

(J/K!!!)
 
DaddyGirl said:
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I think he should go elsewhere, for sure.

But he might be of the mind that the Catholic religion should and must change, so he may be sticking around to try and make it happen.
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He is a theologian. If he has any theological insight into the matter, perhaps he could share it with us? Perhaps that could be persuasive? Based on his press conference, I feel rather sure he has no insight other than his personal desires.
 
CuriousMike said:
**As others have pointed out, the homosexuality in and of itself is not a problem. If this Priest were to appear with a girlfriend, and declare he was an active heterosexual man, advocating for the Church to change “backwards dogma on married Priests,” we would have a similar dialogue going on. **

What the media will probably forget here is that it doesn’t matter whether you’re Hetero or Homosexual, Bisexual or Asexual, Backside down and up to front, any colour of the rainbow or otherwise… This Priest broke his vows. Not just privately, but publicly applauding his decision to make himself a God and suggest the Church ought to follow his perception of reality (and that of much of the general population).
We all know it is a mortal sin to encourage others to engage in sinful activity, no?
We all know that this was timed with the Synod, as a subversive move to derail the proposed dialogue. Now I don’t think that is a sin.

Now, had this transpired in private, and he was “revealed” as a homosexual (or otherwise), I’m not sure whether he might be subject to review to ensure his pastoral practices were sound, or not.

In any case, publicly teaching and advocating against Church doctrine is heresy - and deserves both strict and immediate rebuttal, if not excommunication, depending on the severity.
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We would not be having the same discussion at all. Heterosexuality is not intrinsically disordered and priestly celibacy is not a doctrine of the church but a discipline that can be changed. Not saying it should be but it can be. Unlike church teaching on homosexual acts.
 
DaddyGirl said:
I imagine he’s got insight, and I’m betting he’ll be sharing it anon.

But I also doubt it would be persuasive to the Catholics who agree with the current doctrine because it probably goes along the lines of…“the doctrine on same-sex marriage is wrong/erroneous/a mistake…” and to most, that would shut down listening any further, I imagine.
But there are many Catholics out there who agree with him, according to current polls.
So who knows what will happen…
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There is much sympathy for those who experience SSA, and the views of “most Catholics” you refer to rest on little more than that.

But this man is a theologian. Your statement above needs to continue with “because…” and at that point, I’ll be all ears. I am keen to hear how - theologically - he will make the leap from “feelings and desires” to “sexual acts” with another man.

I’m sure he has insight, in the way a “tell-all” manuscript has insight. But a theological rationale at odds with Scripture and the constant teaching of the Church - hardly. :rolleyes:
 
Cider said:
We would not be having the same discussion at all. Heterosexuality is not intrinsically disordered and priestly celibacy is not a doctrine of the church but a discipline that can be changed. Not saying it should be but it can be. Unlike church teaching on homosexual acts.
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Neither Heterosexuality nor homosexuality (by which terms I refer to the direction of ones sexual interests and desires) are intrinsically disordered, but fornication including same sex sexual acts is.

An unrepentant fornicating priest would expect to be dismissed.

A priest who holds a press conference to announce his unrepentant fornication would expect to be dismissed.

A priest who holds a press conference to denounce and reject Church doctrine, and to announce his right and intention to fornicate would expect to be dismissed.

And so he was.
 
DaddyGirl said:
I imagine he’s got insight, and I’m betting he’ll be sharing it anon.

But I also doubt it would be persuasive to the Catholics who agree with the current doctrine because it probably goes along the lines of…“the doctrine on same-sex marriage is wrong/erroneous/a mistake…” and to most, that would shut down listening any further, I imagine.
But there are many Catholics out there who agree with him, according to current polls.
So who knows what will happen…

.
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Referring to an unchangeable teaching as the “current doctrine” is blatantly misleading, implying it merely reflects the opinion or policy this year; like it may have been different last year, or could be different next year.
 
Vatican sends gay priests to convent to be ‘cured’, claims former priest
Claims by former priest who was thrown out of the Church three years ago for being gay stokes row over Vatican’s attitude towards homoesexual priests
telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/11912833/Vatican-sends-gay-priests-to-convent-to-be-cured-claims-former-priest.html
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I just read this - do you think it is true or just anti-Church LGBT propaganda? Disconcerting to put it diplomatically.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
I just read this - do you think it is true or just anti-Church LGBT propaganda? Disconcerting to put it diplomatically.
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I don’t know exactly what “it” refers to. I’m sure there are facility(s) that are offered to priests experiencing difficulties, be they sexual, alcoholic or related to depression. And as to claims of homosexual religious and priests not respecting their vows - well, I’m sure they exist too. As to the scale of misbehavior - who knows.
 
Trident_H said:
Yeah. Every time I hear that word now I cringe. Sorry guys.
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I couldn’t even enjoy the rainbow this morning because of what it symbolizes now. I kept thinking of the White House lit up in rainbow colors to celebrate the Supreme Court decision.
 
gilliam said:
That he is homosexual is not the issue. That he is sinning and breaking his vow of celibacy in such a public manner is.
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He is sinning and breaking his vow of celibacy because he is homosexual. The homosexual inclination is disordered in itself. It is contrary to natural law and the created order, which makes it worse than lust for someone of the other sex, which is a natural desire. Anyone who has a homosexual inclination and is not determined to suppress it is unfit for the priesthood.
 
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