Vatican says Jewish prayer complaints excessive

[JPUSC]

Vatican says Jewish prayer complaints excessive

VATICAN CITY – The Vatican says Jewish complaints about Pope Benedict XVI’s commitment to dialogue with Jews are “excessive.”

The Vatican newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, highlighted Benedict’s record in meeting with Jews and visiting synagogues in response to the criticism.

Earlier this week, the Assembly of Italian Rabbis said it was pulling out of the Italian Catholic Church’s annual celebration of Judaism, saying the pope’s recent decisions were “canceling” 50 years of interfaith progress.

The chief rabbi of Venice cited the decision to restore a prayer for the conversion of Jews in Easter Week services of the old Latin Mass.

L’Osservatore said Benedict’s contribution to interfaith dialogue was irrevocable.

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090116/ap_on_re_eu/eu_vatican_jews

I like the Jewish people, but admit that their complaining is getting a bit annoying. I mean, don’t they have practices that are not exactly Gentile-friendly:

Traditional Judaism does not permit interfaith marriages. The Torah states that the children of such marriages would be lost to Judaism (Deut. 7:3-4), and experience has shown the truth of this passage all too well.

The more insulting terms for non-Jews are shiksa (feminine) and shkutz (masculine). I gather that these words are derived from the Hebrew root Shin-Qof-Tzadei, meaning loathsome or abomination. The word shiksa is most commonly used to refer to a non-Jewish woman who is dating or married to a Jewish man, which should give some indication of how strongly Jews are opposed to the idea of intermarriage.

jewfaq.org/gentiles.htm

Even if Jewish prayers have not undergirded anti-Catholic pogroms, some are derogatory. Orthodox Jews, both in Israel and throughout the world, recite the prayer Aleynu (“Upon Us”) three times a day thanking God for distinguishing them from non-Jews, including Christians, who “pray to a God who doesn’t help.” The Orthodox version of the Passover Hagaddah, which has been variously edited by Conservative and Reform Jews, petitions God to “Pour out your anger toward the gentiles who do not know you” and “chase them with rage and destroy them.”

ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2008a/032108/032108s.htm

Aleynu

It is our duty to praise the Master of all,
to acclaim the greatness of the One who
forms all creation,
For God did not make us like the nations of
other lands,
and did not make us the same as other
families of the Earth.
God did not place us in the same situations
as others,
and our destiny is not the same as
anyone else’s.

Some congregations outside of Israel omit:
(For they bow to vanity and emptiness
and pray to a god which helps not.)

Compare this to the little line they’re complaining about:

“Let us pray for the Jews. May the Lord Our God enlighten their hearts so that they may acknowledge Jesus Christ, the savior of all men.”

At least, we’re praying for them, LOL. More graces and blessings for them .

…And our Catechism puts them in high regard too (as we also do with the Muslims):

839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.” The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, “the first to hear the Word of God.” The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”, “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city.

 

[CapIV]

Give me a break. These Italian rabbis are being ridiculous.

 

[Corki]

Compare this to the little line they’re complaining about:

Quote:
“Let us pray for the Jews. May the Lord Our God enlighten their hearts so that they may acknowledge Jesus Christ, the savior of all men.”

What boggles my mind is that anyone would make such a big deal about one line that is said once a year and even then, only at a Mass that very few Catholics are able to attend. Seriously, how many parishes are there with Extraordinary Form Good Friday Services?

 

[cyberwolf001]

I say we go back to the older prayer :yup:

 

[JPUSC]

What boggles my mind is that anyone would make such a big deal about one line that is said once a year and even then, only at a Mass that very few Catholics are able to attend. Seriously, how many parishes are there with Extraordinary Form Good Friday Services?

I know! I went to a local TLM parish on Good Friday out of curiosity and what I got was an English service!

 

[JReducation]

I know! I went to a local TLM parish on Good Friday out of curiosity and what I got was an English service!

If I understand the Motu Proprio correctly, the Extraordinary Form cannot be used for the Easter celebrations. I’m not sure if that means only the Easter mass or the entire three days from Holy Thursday to Easter Sunday. The wording is not very precise.

Maybe someone who regularly attends the EF may know this. This may have been why you ran into an English language service.

JR

 

[Freshman88]

If I understand the Motu Proprio correctly, the Extraordinary Form cannot be used for the Easter celebrations. I’m not sure if that means only the Easter mass or the entire three days from Holy Thursday to Easter Sunday. The wording is not very precise.

Maybe someone who regularly attends the EF may know this. This may have been why you ran into an English language service.

JR

The EF parishes that I have attended only celebrate the EF, and I know that many of these priests will refuse to say the OF, thus it’s no surprise that the Triduum is celebrated according to the ancient rite at these parishes.

 

[Freshman88]

And now His Holiness has brought back into commion the Bishops of the SSPX, one of whom is known as a holocaust denier. Despite his very unsavory opion our Holiness has decided to put the salvation of souls ahead of this man’s opinion of history.

In the end you have to love how this man is hated by the world.

Many prayers for our Holiness so he will never cave into false religions.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Freshman

And now His Holiness has brought back into commion the Bishops of the SSPX, one of whom is known as a holocaust denier. Despite his very unsavory opion our Holiness has decided to put the salvation of souls ahead of this man’s opinion of history.

Really? What about the souls who will leave or reject the Church because of this poor decision?

In the end you have to love how this man is hated by the world.

I don’t think he’s hated, but his decisions are questionable, even by Catholics.

Many prayers for our Holiness so he will never cave into false religions.

False religions is an inflamatory term and insulting to those we’re suppose to show respect and dialog with.

Such words cause more souls to reject Catholicism than accept it.

So much for being concerned about the souls of others.

Jim

 

[CapIV]

One should not shy away from proclaiming that Catholicism is the only true religion. This hasn’t ever changed.

 

[Holly3278]

Wow. I also like the Jews but their complaints are definitely getting annoying. I think they are taking things way overboard. Or at least some of them are anyway such as the Italian rabbis.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

One should not shy away from proclaiming that Catholicism is the only true religion. This hasn’t ever changed.

The Catholic faith has the fullness of truth revealed to us, but as Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have stated, other religious also have truths as well, and were we see these truths, we should not reject them just because they come from a non-Catholic religion.

Jim

 

[GodsGadfly]

What boggles my mind is that people keep referring to it as “Good Friday Mass” when there is no Mass on Good Friday.

And while other religions have “rays of truth,” no other religion can bring salvation.

A Jew can possibly get to heaven insofar as he or she honestly seeks the truth and has genuine impediments to appreciating Catholicism. A Jew cannot get to Heaven by virtue of being Jewish.
Same goes for a Protestant, a Muslim, a Hindu or a Communist.

 

[Danoli]

The Catholic faith has the fullness of truth revealed to us, but as Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have stated, other religious also have truths as well, and were we see these truths, we should not reject them just because they come from a non-Catholic religion.

Jim

Where my friend is the truth in the jews,muslims,hindus buddhists denying Christ as the Son of God??? so what you are saying is that we should accept blatant heresy?? they reject salvation by their own choice, that is why it is fundamental to evangelize to them, it is Christian duty that we reject their falsehoods on God.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Where my friend is the truth in the jews,muslims,hindus buddhists denying Christ as the Son of God??? so what you are saying is that we should accept blatant heresy?? they reject salvation by their own choice, that is why it is fundamental to evangelize to them, it is Christian duty that we reject their falsehoods on God.

From:

DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965

Bold is my emphasis.

1. From ancient times down to the present, there is found among various peoples a certain perception of that hidden power which hovers over the course of things and over the events of human history; at times some indeed have come to the recognition of a Supreme Being, or even of a Father. This perception and recognition penetrates their lives with a profound religious sense.

Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing “ways,” comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites.

The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)
3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

God Bless
Jim

 

[Danoli]

From:

DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965

Bold is my emphasis.

God Bless
Jim

Please pardon my ignorance friend,shamefully I have only ever had a superficial knowledge of my faith,so please for the sake of cordial discourse and my continued understanding, I ask of you patience and Christian debate. I profess the Catholic faith, my understanding is that God is triune and thus to reject one part of the Trinity is to reject it all? My simple understanding is that non-Christian religions reject Christ as Divine and thus as God? I therefore cannot grasp where the truth of these religions lie? as stated in that declaration you provide, CHRIST is the way, The TRUTH and the light, does not Our Lord state that no-one comes to the Father but through me? As I hold to such beliefs I cannot through any reason or understanding, not hold the opinion that these religions are false, fundamentally they deny Christ, they thus deny God do they not?

Prayers and best wishes to you.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Danoli;

Please pardon my ignorance friend,shamefully I have only ever had a superficial knowledge of my faith,so please for the sake of cordial discourse and my continued understanding, I ask of you patience and Christian debate.

You don’t have to apologize to me, for nothing I have presented came from myself, but from the Church established by Jesus Christ. I’m merely sharing what the Church has taught me.

I

profess the Catholic faith, my understanding is that God is triune and thus to reject one part of the Trinity is to reject it all? My simple understanding is that non-Christian religions reject Christ as Divine and thus as God? I therefore cannot grasp where the truth of these religions lie? as stated in that declaration you provide, CHRIST is the way,

Think of it this way. They don’t necessarily reject Christ, for they have not come to kown Him, through faith. Knowledge of Christ does not equal faith. Also, we don’t know the reason why Christ has not revealed Himself to them, as He has to us who have faith. However, often the reason why they have not been open to Christ, is because of how professed Christians treated them.

The TRUTH and the light, does not Our Lord state that no-one comes to the Father but through me? As I hold to such beliefs I cannot through any reason or understanding, not hold the opinion that these religions are false, fundamentally they deny Christ, they thus deny God do they not?

Christ statement that no one comes to the Father except through me, means that regardless of how they go to the Father, it is through Him, even though they don’t know Him.

Christ brings man to the father, not religion.

God’s mercy is beyond our understanding.

God Bless
Jim

 

[Danoli]

Christ revealed Himself to the Jews did He not? yet they rejected Him?

 

[Corki]

If I understand the Motu Proprio correctly, the Extraordinary Form cannot be used for the Easter celebrations. I’m not sure if that means only the Easter mass or the entire three days from Holy Thursday to Easter Sunday. The wording is not very precise.

Maybe someone who regularly attends the EF may know this. This may have been why you ran into an English language service.

JR

The EF cannot be used for Triduum services in a parish which offers both the EF and OF. An EF only parish would not revert to OF for the triduum. Nor would a parish, for example, served by the FSSP switch to the OF just for the Triduum.

 

[CapIV]

When a Jew says “Murder is wrong”, he is expressing a truth that the Church has no power to deny simply because it was stated by a Jew. However, there are no non-truths in Catholicism. There are an abundance of non-truths in every non-Catholic religion. It is for the correction of these errors that we pray for.

If a prostitute comes to you and says, “I do not murder, I do not steal, and I do not do drugs.” You wouldn’t congratulate her and accept prostitution as legitimate. You would (attempt to) correct her error of prostitution. You would pray for her.