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cathgal
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JimR-OCDS
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cathgal
Using the term 'False Religion," is inflammatory. Sorry you’re unable to see this. None of the Pope’s in my time, have used this term, when speaking about other religions.
Jim
I understand what excommunication, despite your judgment that I don’t, but I still think it was a bad decision, from a Catholic perspective as well as a political perspective.
Well the Pope is already back peddling. He’s stated that Williamson excommunication won’t be lifted, unless he recants his opinions on the Holocaust. Of course this decision by the Pope, is also problematic for me.
Using the term 'False Religion," is inflammatory. Sorry you’re unable to see this. None of the Pope’s in my time, have used this term, when speaking about other religions.
Jim
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cathgal
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JimR-OCDS
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Hope this helps
Jim
I never said that the excommunication had anything to do with denying the Holocaust. However, the Vatican is now saying the Bishop must recant his statements. So, obviously, the Pope is holding this over his head, before reconciliation with the Church happens.
Confirms what I’ve said. Thanks.
It was said in this thread, and should not have been.
Hope this helps
Jim
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dans0622
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Hi Jim,
Actually, no, that article did not confirm what you said. The excommunication that was incurred because of the illicit ordinations has been lifted. It isn’t on hold pending some kind of apology from the SSPX. Nevertheless, there are still other obstacles preventing a full regularization of the society.
Dan
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JimR-OCDS
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dans,
Pope Benedict began compromising with SSPX, with Moto Proporio.
Jim
Right, I’ve said no different.
The recent release from the Vatican, is that Bishop Williamson must recant his statements on the Holocaust. Its what the article says.
The only obstacles are what the SSPX believe verses the Magestarium. The SSPX Bishops could have return to the Church anytime the desired, but it is they who had to change, not the Church.
Pope Benedict began compromising with SSPX, with Moto Proporio.
Jim
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dans0622
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Hi Jim,
Your statement which I am speaking of was “Well the Pope is already back peddling. He’s stated that Williamson excommunication won’t be lifted, unless he recants his opinions on the Holocaust.”
I said the excommunication *has *been lifted and then you said “I’ve said no different.”
Something isn’t making sense here. Maybe there are other excommunications on the SSPX bishops or Williamson that you are speaking of and I don’t know about.
As to your other points, I have no time to comment.
Dan
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JimR-OCDS
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I agree, I mistated the status.
Here’s what the Pope said, bold is mine.
So, reinstated to episcopal service, doesn’t mean excommunication is back on.
Hope this helps.
Jim
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AntiNovusOrdo
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The Jews need to take a chill pill and get a life like the rest of us. The world does not revolve around them.They are acting like infants.
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numealinesimpet
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Did the pope actually say this? I’ve seen a posting on another Forum that it was by Cdl Bertone in Spain, without the Pope’s permission. Has anybody any more info on this?
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JimR-OCDS
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Well it came from the Vatican Secretariat of State, whom I believe is the speaking for the Pope.
Jim
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Valke2
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Well at least we are in good company. Most christians seem rightly appalled at this as well.
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tomarin
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Hm, I wonder if these Christians know or understand that the SSPX bishops weren’t excommunicated b/c of Holocaust denial. (Thank you by the way for pointing out to one rabid poster in another thread that the Pope isn’t a Holocaust denier.)
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Valke2
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I understand that it was not why they were excommunicated. But in a way this is part and parcel of the underlying problem. The extreme fundamentalism that the bishop embraces make it impossible for him to accept Vatican II
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Darryl1958
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Holocaust denial is not Catholic fundamentalism.
It goes against all the fundamentals of the Catholic faith.
Traditionalists Catholics problem with Vatican II is more about the celebration of the Mass in unfamiliar ways, rather than ancient hatreds that are embedded into the hearts of many Catholics from all walks of life. Indeed, European anti-semitism is as much outside of the Church as it is inside. With or without the Catholic traditions and fundamentals, anti-semitic people exist.
For Catholics, with the Church as an article of faith being the one true Church for all of Christianity, it was more and more apparent that to remain schismed over people wanting to celebrate Mass in the solemn and dignified ways of the Pre-Vatican II times was rather petty in the larger scheme of things. It was just not a good reason to remain divided, when unity of Church is so dearly important to all the Catholic faithful.
As for ancient anti-semitic hatreds, this is the antithesis of Catholic fundamentalism. Anti-semitic Catholics are just as likely to be liberal today as they are to be ultra-traditionalists.
Certainly anti-semitism within the Church needs to be fought, but the two issues are related more by happenstance than by design.
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Soutane
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When anyone comlains too much as in a kneejerk response they inevitably will be ignored.The Jews should be careful about this less they forfeit our goodwill.Eventually everyone will bridle at unrelenting criticism.I like the Jewish people, but admit that their complaining is getting a bit annoying. I mean, don’t they have practices that are not exactly Gentile-friendly:
Compare this to the little line they’re complaining about:
At least, we’re praying for them, LOL. More graces and blessings for them.
…And our Catechism puts them in high regard too (as we also do with the Muslims):
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Peccavi
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Why on earth should any Jew listen to or worry about what any Christian says - after all we’ve been butchering them for centuries with the excuse that they (and not the Romans) crucified Christ who, in his human condition, was also one of them, a Jew that is, who read the Torah, preached in the synagogue, saw the temple as ‘‘his fathers house’’ . Frankly if I were a Jew I’d want nothing to do with the killers of my ancestors.
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Peccavi
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Peccavi
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My my you are touchy. The was no intent on my part to ‘patronise’ you merely to point out why Jews might feel less than satisfied by present day press releases from the Vatican given our past history. Your view that you can divorce the present from the past is one I cannot subscribe to. I firmly believe that he who controls the past (ie. the interpretation of history) contols the future.
As to my being a Brit…well thats an assumption because I happen to live in the UK. But then so does Bill Bryson !
In the debate between St.Peter and St.Paul found in Galatians on the Jewish nature of our church I tend to support St.Peter. Therefore, I see our role in the tragedy of the Jewish people as a grave error by our ancestors and one we today must atone for.
As to my being a Brit…well thats an assumption because I happen to live in the UK. But then so does Bill Bryson !
In the debate between St.Peter and St.Paul found in Galatians on the Jewish nature of our church I tend to support St.Peter. Therefore, I see our role in the tragedy of the Jewish people as a grave error by our ancestors and one we today must atone for.
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