Vatican Says No to Anti-Mosque Proposal in Italy

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First let me say I am a Catholic.

Where was Christian charity when the crusaders sacked Constantinople killing and raping thousands.

But besides side stepping acknowledge what I have written about our Popes.
 
Can’t this issue be negotiated to the benefit of both parties? You have nothing to lose to negotiate (if they have not done so).

Like for every mosque being built in Italy, a church allowed to be built in a Muslim country (say Saudi Arabia) which asks for it.
 
Feanor said:
First let me say I am a Catholic.

Where was Christian charity when the crusaders sacked Constantinople killing and raping thousands.

But besides side stepping acknowledge what I have written about our Popes.
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the crusades whether you agree or don’t agree with them, cannot be compared to the Islamic conquests led by Muhammad’s immediate followers in order to spead Islam. In our faith, we do not have conquest wars to spread Christianity and here you can compare Jesus’ disciples to Muhammad’s to see the difference in ideologies, not the crusades that happened after Islam and because of Islam.

Just some days ago, thousands of Muslims attacked a church where Christians prayed for the first time in Egypt. They were shouting Allahu Akbar, only Islam will prevail, we don’t want churches, no churches allowed here and the Christians were forced to interrupt the mass and many flew to their homes or where trapped inside the church for hours, with thousands of Muslims outside carrying sticks and throwing stones at the church and the Christians could do nothing but scream for help on tv. Whether Islam teaches this or not is not the question, but it is an example of what it is to live as a second class citizen among such people, even if not all Muslims agree with what happened. After all, there isn’t one Islam, there are moderates, there are extremists, and fanatics and people following their sheikhs, and all can back up their hatred from either Quran or hadith and nobody knows who will fill the mosques in Europe or any other country.

That’s why it is a risk, because Islam is not a religion you keep to yourself, but an ideology where others are second-class citizens. where the ummah is to live only under Islamic teachings, where Islam must dominate now or later, be it through wars, poltitics or economics and there is no separation between religion and state.
 
Ahimsa said:
Vatican City - A top Vatican official said Thursday Muslims should be allowed to build new mosques in Italy, where the country’s interior minister, citing terrorism fears, is pushing to ban such initiatives.

On Wednesday Interior Minister Roberto Maroni a member of the anti-immigration Northern League party, proposed a moratorium on the building of mosques following the arrest of two Moroccans suspected of planning a series of bomb attacks.

But Monsignor Gianfranco Ravasi who heads the Holy See’s culture department, suggested such a ban would be counterproductive.

“A place of worship if used as such, is always a source of communion and dialogue,” Ravasi was quoted as saying by the ANSA news agency.
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Hi

It is a good news. I appreciate this open and charitable approach of the Vatican. Thanks Vatican

Regards
 
Hello parrsurrey,

You will find that the Vatican is quite charitable and is nearly always or just plain always supportive of major religions. Christ teaches us charity.

If you look at the attitudes of the Great John Paul, and Benedict you will find such charity at it’s best.

You should look to the leaders of the Church for an accurate understanding of the Catholic Churces attitude towards Islam. This forum cannot be as charitable as it could be sometimes.

I for one hope for more peaceful Muslims in the west and more Christianity in the Middle East.

Certainly no Christian converts though- well unless they are Protesants then I could care less. 😉

Would you personally support the building of Churches in Saudi Arabia. Not in Mecca but in Saudi Arabia- don’t let me down here! 🙂

Jeremy
 
inJESUS said:
the crusades whether you agree or don’t agree with them, cannot be compared to the Islamic conquests led by Muhammad’s immediate followers in order to spead Islam. In our faith, we do not have conquest wars to spread Christianity and here you can compare Jesus’ disciples to Muhammad’s to see the difference in ideologies, not the crusades that happened after Islam and because of Islam.

Just some days ago, thousands of Muslims attacked a church where Christians prayed for the first time in Egypt. They were shouting Allahu Akbar, only Islam will prevail, we don’t want churches, no churches allowed here and the Christians were forced to interrupt the mass and many flew to their homes or where trapped inside the church for hours, with thousands of Muslims outside carrying sticks and throwing stones at the church and the Christians could do nothing but scream for help on tv. Whether Islam teaches this or not is not the question, but it is an example of what it is to live as a second class citizen among such people, even if not all Muslims agree with what happened. After all, there isn’t one Islam, there are moderates, there are extremists, and fanatics and people following their sheikhs, and all can back up their hatred from either Quran or hadith and nobody knows who will fill the mosques in Europe or any other country.

That’s why it is a risk, because Islam is not a religion you keep to yourself, but an ideology where others are second-class citizens. where the ummah is to live only under Islamic teachings, where Islam must dominate now or later, be it through wars, poltitics or economics and there is no separation between religion and state.
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Oh, I say that they can. Accounts of the crusades by pro-crusade christians report the battle in Jerusalem as being “so bloody that the horses nearly drowned in gore”. They go on to praise these attrocities.

Also, many muslim conquerers treated people better than the previous rulers. There are many accounts of Christians/Jews helping Muslim invaders because they knew they would be treated better than they were under the “christian” rulers of the time.
 
inJESUS said:
Just some days ago, thousands of Muslims attacked a church where Christians prayed for the first time in Egypt. They were shouting Allahu Akbar, only Islam will prevail, we don’t want churches, no churches allowed here and the Christians were forced to interrupt the mass and many flew to their homes or where trapped inside the church for hours, with thousands of Muslims outside carrying sticks and throwing stones at the church and the Christians could do nothing but scream for help on tv. Whether Islam teaches this or not is not the question, but it is an example of what it is to live as a second class citizen among such people, even if not all Muslims agree with what happened. After all, there isn’t one Islam, there are moderates, there are extremists, and fanatics and people following their sheikhs, and all can back up their hatred from either Quran or hadith and nobody knows who will fill the mosques in Europe or any other country.
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Funny, aren’t many people saying that Muslims shouldn’t be allowed to build so many mosques in western nations?

There have been brutal attacks on Muslims by so-called “christians”.

I agree that there are fanatics on both sides.
 
narrowpath said:
Oh, I say that they can. Accounts of the crusades by pro-crusade christians report the battle in Jerusalem as being “so bloody that the horses nearly drowned in gore”. They go on to praise these attrocities.

Also, many muslim conquerers treated people better than the previous rulers. There are many accounts of Christians/Jews helping Muslim invaders because they knew they would be treated better than they were under the “christian” rulers of the time.
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One topic for your reading list:

Hagiasofia:(

Catholics could also be sad reading that one.
 
Ah, yes. The great Church converted to a mosque, and now a museum.

Speaking of Constantanople, what of the crimes commited by western crusaders to their OWN FELLOW CHRISTIANS?:mad:
 
i think a better way for the church to tackle this problem is to limit muslim immigration. the vatican can’t ask the saudis’ to allow christians the freedom to worship openly while not allowing muslims the same freedom.

but there is a element within the vatican in my opinion that is so tolerant of islam that it appears to be relativistic.
 
narrowpath said:
Ah, yes. The great Church converted to a mosque, and now a museum.
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Hagiasofia, we see christian priests mercilessly slaughtered and their blood on the walls of the church.
Lepanto, we see christians defending themselves in a valiant battle to defend themselves from violent muslim takeover.
The point is that muslims always for centuries blame fundamentalist imams for everything.
 
Do you disagree that these imams have been responsible for misleading muslims like that.

There are fundamentalists in any religion who would trick people into furthering their own agenda.
 
narrowpath said:
Do you disagree that these imams have been responsible for misleading muslims like that.

There are fundamentalists in any religion who would trick people into furthering their own agenda.
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It depends on which muhhamed you like best. Medinah Muhhamed, or the other Muhhamed.
Jeykel and Hyde type personality.
 
There are some Catholics that, unfortunately believe despite the words of Great John Paul and Benedict, that Islam is not, when practiced correctly- a peaceful religion.

Fortunately the Vatican is in the hands of the more level headed.
 
Feanor said:
There are some Catholics that, unfortunately believe despite the words of Great John Paul and Benedict, that Islam is not, when practiced correctly- a peaceful religion.

Fortunately the Vatican is in the hands of the more level headed.
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I agree when practiced correctly Islam should not be violent.
Lets just see how that works when we look at Muhhamed’s actual resume.
My idea of what it means to practice Islam correctly, is to not do what Muhhamed did, but to believe an angel appeared to him and do whatever the Imams tell you to do/believe. Muhhamed made no arrangements for leaders after his death, therefore we see all sorts of confusion and people calling themselves muslim that most muslims would not accept as muslim.
 
JLSamuel818 said:
This is a good Christian example. However I suspect this act of kindness will not be returned.
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Perhaps not. But Jesus didn’t command us to do acts of kindness to people who will return the favor.
 
Jesus performed the ultimate act of kindness, and they nailed him to a cross. I wouldn’t worry about them not returning the favour…
 
Notsmart,

why are you questioning the wisdom of our leaders in the curia not to mention John Paul and Benedict.

Islam has been hijacked by so many over the past 40 years and I feel sorry for it’s followers.

Authentic Islam still exists- with wonderfully charitable people. Yes they are missing an understanding of Christ’s true role and this is tragic but they are in the larger realm of Abrahamic religions.

Personally, I would rather talk with an intellectual moderate Muslim than a Evangelical Christian who believes the world is 6000 years old and dinosaurs never existed.
 
Feanor said:
There are some Catholics that, unfortunately believe despite the words of Great John Paul and Benedict, that Islam is not, when practiced correctly- a peaceful religion.
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Where did they say this?
 
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