Vatican scrutiny puzzles some nuns; Skepticism, mistrust surround visitation

[Lepanto]

“…some women religious are questioning the motives behind the sudden interest in their congregations.”

Duh.

buffalonews.com/home/story/731823.html

Although the article doesn’t say so, only two of the three umbrella organizations of women religious in the US are being investigated: The Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR) and the National Coalition of American Nuns (NCAN), not the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious (CMSWR). A perusal of their respective websites can give indications of how different the first two groups are from the third.

lcwr.org/

ncan.us/

cmswr.org/

 

[gugg15]

That second link is especially horrifying. I think this investigation is a breath of fresh air. These people know they’re not acting in accordance to the standards of the Church, or else they wouldn’t be feeling skepticism or mistrust. I only hope that they can realign themselves to the reason why they became nuns in the first place, to serve Christ and His Church, not to spread heterodox doctrines and ideas like “womens ordination.”

 

[PadraigPearce]

On the National Coalition of American Nuns website, it appears that they will be giving an award to Sister Louise Lears for being put under interdict by her Bishop. Now, I can understand if they were upset action was taken against her, and that they would want to have the interdict removed etc. But to glory in placing yourself outside the Church that way, to give out special awards for disobeying your Bishop? I’m speechless. Why do they stay in the Church? Are they too old to do anything else or they just want to use the structures of the Church for ideological purposes?

 

[Dori1]

I fully agree that the website information looks pretty damming. However, rather than gossip about them or hold them in contempt, I will pray for them and await the outcome of the Apostolic Visitation.

 

[Brendan]

I , I will pray for them and await the outcome of the Apostolic Visitation.

Yep, and in the case of NCAN, at least, St, Dymphna seems to be the appropriate intercessor.

 

[SIb4G]

The Church today needs saints, not social workers.

The mission of the Church is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow. The mission of the World is today. Let’s not confuse the two. I say: Hurrah for the Church of the Middle Ages! Hurrah for the Church of the Early Fathers! Hurrah for the Church of Benedict XVI! The REAL Church is one and the same.

The natural EVOLVES; the supernatural IS. So, God revealed His name to Moses: “I AM”.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I highly respect those affiliated with the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious (CMSWR). Their devotion to Holy Mother Church is heart warming.

 

[fulbert4605]

On the National Coalition of American Nuns website, it appears that they will be giving an award to Sister Louise Lears for being put under interdict by her Bishop. Now, I can understand if they were upset action was taken against her, and that they would want to have the interdict removed etc. But to glory in placing yourself outside the Church that way, to give out special awards for disobeying your Bishop? I’m speechless. Why do they stay in the Church? Are they too old to do anything else or they just want to use the structures of the Church for ideological purposes?

The latter.

satan’s motivation towards destroying the One, Holy, Apostolic Church knows no bounds. satan wins us over, than uses our bodily pride to help in promoting his ideology to others. And our pride knows no bounds, as does satan’s. he thought the finite could encompass the infinite for starters. . .

i know where you’re coming from. Why would they stay in the Church if they’re so opposed to the Church’s teaching? It is work of satan through pride and IMO is one of the greatest testiments of the Truth of the Catholic Church that She constantly be attacked by satan in so blatant a form.

To be assailed by satan. . .you know you’re on the right path. Why would satan waste his time with those who are already his?

 

[SIb4G]

The latter.

satan’s motivation towards destroying the One, Holy, Apostolic Church knows no bounds. satan wins us over, than uses our bodily pride to help in promoting his ideology to others. And our pride knows no bounds, as does satan’s. he thought the finite could encompass the infinite for starters. . .

i know where you’re coming from. Why would they stay in the Church if they’re so opposed to the Church’s teaching? It is work of satan through pride and IMO is one of the greatest testiments of the Truth of the Catholic Church that She constantly be attacked by satan in so blatant a form.

To be assailed by satan. . .you know you’re on the right path. Why would satan waste his time with those who are already his?

Fulbert—YES!

Put simply: THEY WANT TO DESTROY THE CHURCH. And defending themselves, they would be perfectly consistent in their imperfection and LIE about it.

 

[catharina]

I know quite a few “nuns” and Sisters.

My impression is that the only ones “mistrusting” are those who should be.
Those who live good (virtuous) consecrated have no such concerns. Makes sense to me.

 

[andrewagill]

The natural EVOLVES; the supernatural IS. So, God revealed His name to Moses: “I AM”.

I don’t think I would use this argument.

The Hebrew here is (transliterated) Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh'', which is in the future tense, more of I will be who I will be’’ or even ``I shall become who I am becoming.’’

(I should also point out that there are no waws in these words, and thus no part of it could be construed as the Tetragrammaton)

Oh, also:

Put simply: THEY WANT TO DESTROY THE CHURCH.

No, they don’t. They are doing what they think is right, even though some of them are clearly wrong. I suspect that most of the dissenters think that they are saving the Church.

If you seek them out with the idea that they are fed up with the Church and want to do grave harm to Her, you may wind up speaking at cross purposes and not moving any of these people closer to God or further away from the goals that they have.

 

[Servus_Domini_1]

An Apostolic Visitation is not a witch-hunt. It is good for the “head office” to check in on the “field offices” every now and then. In 2005/06 there was an Apostolic Visitation of US seminaries and houses of priestly formation. The final report was issued in December 2008 and can be seen here. For the most part, it is a good report. They pointed out some problems and areas that needed work; for the most part it determined that things were improving.

It is up to the institution visited to determine how to take the results of the Visitation. I have no access to the private reports given to the individual institutions, but in reading the general report I can see some problem highlighted that apply to my seminary. But I can also see positive changes being made to correct those problems.

If a community is concerned, it probably should be. After all, they are in the best position to know if they are faithful to the Magisterium or not.

 

[catharina]

An Apostolic Visitation is not a witch-hunt. It is good for the “head office” to check in on the “field offices” every now and then. In 2005/06 there was an Apostolic Visitation of US seminaries and houses of priestly formation. The final report was issued in December 2008 and can be seen here. For the most part, it is a good report. They pointed out some problems and areas that needed work; for the most part it determined that things were improving.

It is up to the institution visited to determine how to take the results of the Visitation. I have no access to the private reports given to the individual institutions, but in reading the general report I can see some problem highlighted that apply to my seminary. But I can also see positive changes being made to correct those problems.

**If a community is concerned, it probably should be. ** After all, they are in the best position to know if they are faithful to the Magisterium or not.

Yes. I’d say that’s the whole story.

 

[SIb4G]

I don’t think I would use this argument.

The Hebrew here is (transliterated) Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh'', which is in the future tense, more of I will be who I will be’’ or even ``I shall become who I am becoming.’’

(I should also point out that there are no waws in these words, and thus no part of it could be construed as the Tetragrammaton)

Oh, also:

No, they don’t. They are doing what they think is right, even though some of them are clearly wrong. I suspect that most of the dissenters think that they are saving the Church.

If you seek them out with the idea that they are fed up with the Church and want to do grave harm to Her, you may wind up speaking at cross purposes and not moving any of these people closer to God or further away from the goals that they have.

I would agree with your last paragraph. And, they may be doing what they think is right; but, if they think the Church is wrong, they are still trying to destroy it. (And create a new Church in its place.) Fact of the matter, the Church IS NOT WRONG. My opinion: many are so sucked into their revered zeitgeist that their hearts are hardened to the Magisterium and the traditions of the Church and are, thus, incorrigible. (Let me be quick to add: I believe it is our Chrisitian duty to help these others to love God.)

As to that other matter: “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel.” (Mk 1:14) Yes, with these words, Jesus proclaimed His mission. He also offered the FULL possibility of salvation for EVERY believer down through time to the present generation. Eternity, the immutable, is NOW.

Words. Words. Words. I would just say, although “I Will Be Who I Will Be” may be the most plausible rendering of the Hebrew, the middle word “asher” could easily mean “what” rather than “who” and the common translation of “I Am That I Am” cannot be excluded.

 

[andrewagill]

I would agree with your last paragraph. And, they may be doing what they think is right; but, if they think the Church is wrong, they are still trying to destroy it. (And create a new Church in its place.) Fact of the matter, the Church IS NOT WRONG. My opinion: many are so sucked into their revered zeitgeist that their hearts are hardened to the Magisterium and the traditions of the Church and are, thus, incorrigible. (Let me be quick to add: I believe it is our Chrisitian duty to help these others to love God.)

As to that other matter: “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel.” (Mk 1:14) Yes, with these words, Jesus proclaimed His mission. He also offered the FULL possibility of salvation for EVERY believer down through time to the present generation. Eternity, the immutable, is NOW.

Words. Words. Words. I would just say, although “I Will Be Who I Will Be” may be the most plausible rendering of the Hebrew, the middle word “asher” could easily mean “what” rather than “who” and the common translation of “I Am That I Am” cannot be excluded.

I think we’re pretty much in full agreement here. The only thing that I would say is that while these people are trying in fact to destroy the Church, they do not want to destroy the church.

 

[SIb4G]

I think we’re pretty much in full agreement here. The only thing that I would say is that while these people are trying in fact to destroy the Church, they do not want to destroy the church.

I like your observation. Very clever!

 

[Holly3278]

That second link is especially horrifying. I think this investigation is a breath of fresh air. These people know they’re not acting in accordance to the standards of the Church, or else they wouldn’t be feeling skepticism or mistrust. I only hope that they can realign themselves to the reason why they became nuns in the first place, to serve Christ and His Church, not to spread heterodox doctrines and ideas like “womens ordination.”

Yes, this investigation is a breath of fresh air. I agree. I hope that it brings about some good changes in the various convents and monasteries of the country.

 

[StrawberryJam]

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear from an investigation.

If anything, being under scrutiny can help rather than hurt in this case. Perhaps under investigation the powers that be find the people being investigated do much more good than they ever knew before? That would be a good thing.

It does trouble me that it sounds like communication is seen as a threat, and an anomoly.
Shouldn’t there be healthy communication from the start? Maybe there wouldn’t be an investigation if there always was?

And, why aren’t the Bishops being investigated here?

 

[andrewagill]

It does trouble me that it sounds like communication is seen as a threat, and an anomoly.
Shouldn’t there be healthy communication from the start? Maybe there wouldn’t be an investigation if there always was?

And, why aren’t the Bishops being investigated here?

Communication has been a point of contention for a while. Sorry to keep harping on Sr. Chittister, but it’s an example I know well.

When she was about to go off to the Women’s Ordination Worldwide, the Vatican sent the prioress of her convent a letter, telling the prioress verbally that the letter would contain instructions to advise Sr. Chittister not to go to the conference or face just punishments.

When the prioress received the letter, she gathered the convent together and put it to a vote whether she should open the letter. If she never opened it, technically she would’t know what was inside. They voted not to open it, and Sr. Chittister went to the conference.

As to the bishops, there’s only so much you can do with them even if you have clear evidence of error. Look what it took to get Lefebvre excommunicated. True, he was an archbishop, but I doubt they could come up with much new information that could actually be used to correct the situation.

 

[allhers]

“…some women religious are questioning the motives behind the sudden interest in their congregations.”

Duh.

buffalonews.com/home/story/731823.html

Although the article doesn’t say so, only two of the three umbrella organizations of women religious in the US are being investigated: The Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR) and the National Coalition of American Nuns (NCAN), not the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious (CMSWR). A perusal of their respective websites can give indications of how different the first two groups are from the third.

lcwr.org/

ncan.us/

cmswr.org/

I did a quick read of the third one and overall it looked pretty good until I saw this page…

Still, despite being suffused by the reminders given by our foundress and the example of our sisters to appreciate, love and adore the Eucharist unceasingly, each year when the
Eucharist is removed from the tabernacle on Wednesday of Holy Week and that tabernacle remains empty until the Easter vigil on Holy Saturday…
cmswr.org/spiritual_reflections/Reflection%20on%20the%20Eucharist.htm

???Wednesday to the vigil on Holy Saturday-- Is she mistaken or was that a typo???