Vatican squelches rumors of new rules on Mass facing east

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PatrickKennedy said:
Oh yes. Your memories like mine are lovely and quite precious. But ‘veiling’ instead of ‘putting my hat on’ or ‘putting a scarf on’ or something like that is such a strange new term. It appears contrived. We aren’t fundamentalists we are just Catholics and some women wear a hat or mantilla in church they don’t ‘veil’
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Well,since I am a Spanish speaker,I do not know the term you used. We called them " mantilla" and we put it on.
And again,some of the nuns were stricter than others in their terms and use so I honestly do not know if there was more to this.
I know the playground was awsome!!
 
CatholicSooner said:
really?
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In my youth (I am 58) “veiling” was never used either as far as I can remember. Women covered their heads in church with a hat, or scarf, it was an automatic thing and nobody had a special term for it. Wearing a mantilla was something one did when one met the Pope (if one were female 😛 ). I think the only people I ever saw wearing mantillas at Mass were elderly Italian widows. This would be during the 60s “transition” era.

If the term was used somewhere, it must be a cultural thing (remembering that Catholicism is not restricted to the United States of America, CAF notwithstanding). We don’t even have a term for it in French. “Porter un voile” is the closest and means wearing a head covering but can apply as much to a nurses’s headscarf, a religious sister’s, or a Muslim’s headscarf. In the modern context, it is almost exclusively now used for Muslim women. It may have been used for church at one time but keep in mind in French Canada that would not mean a mantilla, but it most likely meant a headscarf such as a religious sister would wear.
 
the word veil has been around since the first centuries of the church
 
TMC said:
I completely agree that the semantics are not what is important. But I am equally puzzled as to the benefits of women wearing veils.
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I’m puzzled by both. I realise that the semantics can seem unimportant but I would just say that at no point up until the last couple of years have I heard the term ‘to veil’ about catholic lay women. It seems to me to be a term that is being used by groups of co-religionists who would like us to remember a time which actually never existed. No one talked about ‘veils’ in the days when no female would walk into church without her head covered, so why are we now. It seems to me to be some form of inverted snobbery.
 
PatrickKennedy said:
I’m puzzled by both. I realise that the semantics can seem unimportant but I would just say that at no point up until the last couple of years have I heard the term ‘to veil’ about catholic lay women. It seems to me to be a term that is being used by groups of co-religionists who would like us to remember a time which actually never existed. No one talked about ‘veils’ in the days when no female would walk into church without her head covered, so why are we now. It seems to me to be some form of inverted snobbery.
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alright i’m out lol…this is ludicrous
 
TMC said:
I completely agree that the semantics are not what is important. But I am equally puzzled as to the benefits of women wearing veils.
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graciew said:
Well,since I am a Spanish speaker,I do not know the term you used. We called them " mantilla" and we put it on.
And again,some of the nuns were stricter than others in their terms and use so I honestly do not know if there was more to this.
I know the playground was awsome!!
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Exactly you had a mantilla (an so did a lot of Irish women) and you stuck it on. Did you consider yourself ‘veiled’ I know my mother and sisters never did
 
CatholicSooner said:
just a sign of more reverence. like if men started to wear suites again to mass instead of jeans and tshirts
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Exactly right. We also dressed up in our “Sunday best.” At the time, I thought, “Why would I approach God in Church without wearing my best, reverent clothes?” And best didn’t mean expensive. You could get a nice suit that was not a brand label that cost more.

Ed
 
I’m not sure that putting on a suit to go to a church full of ‘veiled’ women with the priest facing liturgical east is my idea of an ideal trip to mass on Sunday at all.
 
PatrickKennedy said:
Yes that’s right. But it was never referred to as ‘veiling’ this terminology strikes me as really strange.
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I am a priest now retired and arriving to the end of my pilgrimage after many many wonderful years as a priest in the aftermath of Vatican II.

I find the term “veiling” as it is being employed by a certain type of Catholic as not only “really strange,” it is nothing short of bizarre…especially when ascribing sentiments about it to an era in which they very evidently either did not live or have clouded memories of.

The only time we spoke of veils in the ancient days of my youth was with regard to women Religious. They wore veils. My mother did not wear a veil. A young woman “took the veil” was an expression that she entered Religious life and there was a great symbolism in all facets of the veil of a woman Religious.

My mother and her mother wore hats or other head coverings. They certainly would never have employed a term like “veiling” or that they were “veiled” or that they “veil”.

It is nothing short of ludicrous to say that was how we thought and spoke – not unlike other things I read in this forum by people who seem to have a very strange view of what we actually lived in the era before the Council.
 
Don_Ruggero said:
I am a priest now retired and arriving to the end of my pilgrimage after many many wonderful years as a priest in the aftermath of Vatican II.

I find the term “veiling” as it is being employed by a certain type of Catholic as not only “really strange,” it is nothing short of bizarre…especially when ascribing sentiments about it to an era in which they very evidently either did not live or have clouded memories of.

The only time we spoke of veils in the ancient days of my youth was with regard to women Religious. They wore veils. My mother did not wear a veil. A young woman “took the veil” was an expression that she entered Religious life and there was a great symbolism in all facets of the veil of a woman Religious.

My mother and her mother wore hats or other head coverings. They certainly would never have employed a term like “veiling” or that they were “veiled” or that they “veil”.

It is nothing short of ludicrous to say that was how we thought and spoke – not unlike other things I read in this forum by people who seem to have a very strange view of what we actually lived in the era before the Council.
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I wish I had written that! It just seems to be harking back to a day that never existed. I’m sort of sorry I mentioned it but I couldn’t believe the terminology. It’s not something I recognise as traditionally Catholic. My mother shoved on a hat or a headscarf and never ever mentioned it. And then she also stopped doing it and never ever mentioned it. She moved in concert with the church traditions.
 
Don_Ruggero said:
I am a priest now retired and arriving to the end of my pilgrimage after many many wonderful years as a priest in the aftermath of Vatican II.

I find the term “veiling” as it is being employed by a certain type of Catholic as not only “really strange,” it is nothing short of bizarre…especially when ascribing sentiments about it to an era in which they very evidently either did not live or have clouded memories of.

The only time we spoke of veils in the ancient days of my youth was with regard to women Religious. They wore veils. My mother did not wear a veil. A young woman “took the veil” was an expression that she entered Religious life and there was a great symbolism in all facets of the veil of a woman Religious.

My mother and her mother wore hats or other head coverings. They certainly would never have employed a term like “veiling” or that they were “veiled” or that they “veil”.

It is nothing short of ludicrous to say that was how we thought and spoke – not unlike other things I read in this forum by people who seem to have a very strange view of what we actually lived in the era before the Council.
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different parts of the world and different languages and terms.

Wow I can’t believe this thread has shifted like it has. unbelievable
 
PatrickKennedy said:
I wish I had written that! It just seems to be harking back to a day that never existed. I’m sort of sorry I mentioned it but I couldn’t believe the terminology. It’s not something I recognise as traditionally Catholic. My mother shoved on a hat or a headscarf and never ever mentioned it. And then she also stopped doing it and never ever mentioned it. She moved in concert with the church traditions.
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you talk about traditionally catholic but then seem to think that ad orientem is wrong

Do you guys care to post a picture of what you think we mean by veils? And also what you mean by headscarfs? B/c I’m pretty sure they are the same thing
 
I mean Paul’s letters speak of veiling. St. thomas aquines speaks of it.

What am I missing here? Why are you guys so worked up on one phrase? Especially considering we live in different parts of the world
 
CatholicSooner said:
I mean Paul’s letters speak of veiling. St. thomas aquines speaks of it.

What am I missing here? Why are you guys so worked up on one phrase? Especially considering we live in different parts of the world
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In a catholic context when did you first use that term or when did you hear it?
 
I think that parishes should try to employ a more traditional form of the OF Mass and see how it pans out. The priest may be pleasantly surprised with how well it draws young people.

For the past 9 years since Summorum Pontificum, tradition-minded Catholics have been quarantined in EF Mass communities. Now that there is talk of resurrecting traditional Catholic practices allowed for in the OF, many are getting defensive because they don’t want those things brought back into mainstream.

Personally, I find versus populum divisive now that I’ve experienced both ways of priestly orientation. Why can’t my whiny voice be heard like the others in the press?
 
PatrickKennedy said:
In a catholic context when did you first use that term or when did you hear it?
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heck if I know

But it is out their in early church father’s writings so…it’s been awhile

If you guys want to keep discussing semantics of veils vs head dresses go ahead but I am out. Maybe a mod can transfer this conversation to a new thread b/c it has nothing to do with this thread
 
And PatrickKennedy,

If this term “veiling” is so important to you, please start a new thread instead of hijacking this topic. At least that can get it’s own clear discussion and the OP can have their question discussed here.
 
graciew said:
Well,since I am a Spanish speaker,I do not know the term you used. We called them " mantilla" and we put it on.
And again,some of the nuns were stricter than others in their terms and use so I honestly do not know if there was more to this.
I know the playground was awsome!!
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We used “chapel veils” for the small beanie type lace and my mother wore a mantilla. If I recall correctly, only adult women wore the mantilla, and the kids wore chapel veils.

We had uniform beanies for week-day mass. Or a Kleenex if you forgot your beanie.😃
 
So this is my last post regarding veils…

I googled mantillas and it is literally the same thing as a veil
 
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