Vatican Supports Two-State Solution

[JimR-OCDS]

From CNS, staff and other sources | OCTOBER 10, 2011
A ddressing the U.N. General Assembly on Sept. 27, a Vatican representative called for “courageous decisions” after Palestinian leaders appealed for statehood. Archbishop Dominique Mamberti, the Vatican’s secretary for relations with states, did not say whether the Vatican explicitly supported the Palestinians’ U.N. initiative.

americamagazine.org/content/signs.cfm?signid=832

 

[RICKY_RASPER]

JimR-OCDS:
This is a very worrying position for the Vatican to take. For the life of me I find it sickening that the Church would side with a people that is calling for the blood of Israel. Has the Vatican forgot the dancing on the streets of Gazza after 9/11?
The land was promised to the Jews by **God !!! **

THE LAST THING THE MIDDLE EAST NEEDS IS ANOTHER ISLAMIC STATE !!!

 

[Matthew_Holford]

This is a very worrying position for the Vatican to take. For the life of me I find it sickening that the Church would side with a people that is calling for the blood of Israel. Has the Vatican forgot the dancing on the streets of Gazza after 9/11?
The land was promised to the Jews by **God !!! **

THE LAST THING THE MIDDLE EAST NEEDS IS ANOTHER ISLAMIC STATE !!!

So it is OK for the Israelis to treat the Palestinians the way they do? Are the Palestinians to be denied statehood? It is too easily and frequently forgotten that the present state of Israel was founded by terrorism. The Israelis have no moral high ground over the Palestinians.

 

[GEddie]

The premise that every cultural group should be a sovereign nation is a dangerous one to take. On that premise, England should let the Scots and Welsh go, while the USA would…never mind.

I’m not sure that anybody presently in the ME is acting in good faith, and that’s the real problem, not what people 2,000 or 7,000 miles away say.

ICXC NIKA

 

[RICKY_RASPER]

So it is OK for the Israelis to treat the Palestinians the way they do? Are the Palestinians to be denied statehood? It is too easily and frequently forgotten that the present state of Israel was founded by terrorism. The Israelis have no moral high ground over the Palestinians.

It,s totally ok. If you had ever lived in a country were people were regularly scraped of the street you would know.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

It didn’t actually say the Vatican supports a two state solution.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

There will eventually be a two-state solution. I’m not sure what alternative anyone thinks there could possibly be…

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

It didn’t actually say the Vatican supports a two state solution.

It appears to:

Archbishop Mamberti called on the United Nations to work with determination to achieve “the final objective, which is the realization of the right of Palestinians to have their own independent and sovereign state and the right of Israelis to security, with both states provided with internationally recognized borders.”

 

[cmforte]

Why can’t there be ONE State made up of Palistinians AND Jews? (And other ethnic and religious groups for that matter). Why should either group claim exclusivity to the land? Sounds like ethnic and religious chuavinism to me…on both sides…

-Chris

 

[Birdpreacher]

My frend’s Palestinian grandmother still has the key to her old house in Israel. She hopes to be able to go back there someday.

 

[GEddie]

Why can’t there be ONE State made up of Palistinians AND Jews? (And other ethnic and religious groups for that matter). Why should either group claim exclusivity to the land? Sounds like ethnic and religious chuavinism to me…on both sides…

-Chris

Because such a state would be Muslim majority from the start, and become an Islamic state, which then chased the ex-Israelis out. After all, most of them are grandchildren, etc, of those who returned in the 1900s.

Lamentably, the only security the Jews have is a nation wherein they are no longer a minority. Injustices were committed to get there, as they were in the histories of USA, Britain, and pretty much everywhere that the majority is not an indigenous population. But there is no way of reversing the calendar. 2 states at arms-length from each other is the best to be hoped for.

At least until a local boy born in 6BC shows up to take over

ICXC NIKA

 

[Baer]

It,s totally ok. If you had ever lived in a country were people were regularly scraped of the street you would know.

Far more Palestinian civilians die from the Israeli military then Israeli citizens from Palestinian terrorists.

 

[GEddie]

My frend’s Palestinian grandmother still has the key to her old house in Israel. She hopes to be able to go back there someday.

Hopefully she can return to the area, or at least down the road to the new Palestine state, once peace is proclaimed. I doubt the house will be waiting for her, though.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Raskolnikov]

It,s totally ok. If you had ever lived in a country were people were regularly scraped of the street you would know.

You mean Palestine? You do realize that for every Israeli civilian who dies dozens of Palestinians die. The Palestinians are far and away the worse off. That’s why it is the Palestinians who are most opposed to the status quo, while the Israeli state is cimmitted to preserving it.

cmforte:

Why can’t there be ONE State made up of Palistinians AND Jews? (And other ethnic and religious groups for that matter). Why should either group claim exclusivity to the land? Sounds like ethnic and religious chuavinism to me…on both sides…

-Chris

Wouldn’t really be practical. Most Israelis and most Palestinians want two states. A few on the extreme of one end want one happy state where everyone gets along, and a few other extremists want one Jewish state with the Palestinians being forceably removed or one Palestinian state with the Israelis forceably removed. Of all the options, the most moral and sensible one seems to be the two state one.

 

[Dan_Daly]

This is a very worrying position for the Vatican to take. For the life of me I find it sickening that the Church would side with a people that is calling for the blood of Israel. Has the Vatican forgot the dancing on the streets of Gazza after 9/11?
The land was promised to the Jews by **God !!! **

THE LAST THING THE MIDDLE EAST NEEDS IS ANOTHER ISLAMIC STATE !!!

While I am hardly pro-Islam, and think those who consider it a “religion of peace” are gravely mistaken, we must also be careful in making proclomations about any divine mandate for a modern Israel.

The true modern “Jewish” Church, the faith that Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Elijah, etc belonged to is…the Catholic Church. The Messiah they awaited came, died, and rose again.

Modern Jews are not the same religion as Jews of the Old Testament. I say that with charity and not as any kind of attack on anyone. It is simply a historical and theological truth. Modern Rabbinical Judaism is not some sort of alternate path to Heaven ordained by God. We know no one can get to Heaven except through Christ, and modern Jews reject Christ. We must pray for the conversion of all peoples to the One True Faith.

Pax and God Bless.

 

[Dan_Daly]

There will eventually be a two-state solution. I’m not sure what alternative anyone thinks there could possibly be…

One state? It might not be an alternative you or I like, but it’s a possibility to be sure.

The US tried a 2 state solution back in the 1860s…didn’t work out.
Tibet would like to a seperate state from Communist China, maybe it will happen, maybe it won’t. The list of historical examples is near endless.

Simply because many people WANT a 2 state solution doesn’t make it inevitable. People don’t get everything they want all the time.

Pax

 

[cmforte]

Because such a state would be Muslim majority from the start, and become an Islamic state, which then chased the ex-Israelis out. After all, most of them are grandchildren, etc, of those who returned in the 1900s.

Why should it be an Islamic or Jewish State? How about a democratic state with the separation of Church and State, and thus a religiously-neutral or secular government, and where religious freedom is codified in a Constitution?

Lamentably, the only security the Jews have is a nation wherein they are no longer a minority. Injustices were committed to get there, as they were in the histories of USA, Britain, and pretty much everywhere that the majority is not an indigenous population. But there is no way of reversing the calendar. 2 states at arms-length from each other is the best to be hoped for.

At least until a local boy born in 6BC shows up to take over

ICXC NIKA

I disagree with your last part. First of all, while there were a few anti-Semites in the US and anti-Jewish pogwams, they were in no way as prevalent or as devastating as you imply. Jews have enjoyed freedom in the US for centuries. Look up the oldest synagogue here. And minorities are now protected here (but one could argue Jews are not a minority in the US).

You do not need your own nation to enjoy peace and freedom. Jews enjoy this today in the Western world, and, as said, have in the US for centuries. If we follow this line of thought to its logical conclusion, then every “minority-group” in the world should get its own nation.

-Chris

 

[GEddie]

I disagree with your last part. First of all, while there were a few anti-Semites in the US and anti-Jewish pogwams, they were in no way as prevalent or as devastating as you imply. Jews have enjoyed freedom in the US for centuries. Look up the oldest synagogue here. And minorities are now protected here (but one could argue Jews are not a minority in the US).

The USA has indeed been a refuge for Judaism, as well as Irishmen, etc; but it is not an available refuge for Jews worldwide. It did no better than other Western nations in rescuing victims of Nazism before the war.

You do not need your own nation to enjoy peace and freedom. Jews enjoy this today in the Western world, and, as said, have in the US for centuries. If we follow this line of thought to its logical conclusion, then every “minority-group” in the world should get its own nation.

-Chris

Not really, as most ethnicities are not nearly as persecuted as Jews have been.

And “Western world” includes Germany; remember what happened there?? The Israelis sure do. However enlightened the nations of the world may be, as long as they existed on somebody else’s sufferance, they know ancestrally that it can all come to a bloody end.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

One state? It might not be an alternative you or I like, but it’s a possibility to be sure.

The US tried a 2 state solution back in the 1860s…didn’t work out.
Tibet would like to a seperate state from Communist China, maybe it will happen, maybe it won’t. The list of historical examples is near endless.

Simply because many people WANT a 2 state solution doesn’t make it inevitable. People don’t get everything they want all the time.

Pax

The “American 2 state solution” was wanted only by ONE side; and it was the weaker side. No good.

I don’t know much about China and Tibet, but I’d imagine the same holds. After all, the most populous nation on earth would oppose Tibetan nationhood.

Whereas, if majorities on both sides want the 2 state solution, who would stop it?

ICXC NIKA

 

[cmforte]

The USA has indeed been a refuge for Judaism, as well as Irishmen, etc; but it is not an available refuge for Jews worldwide. It did no better than other Western nations in rescuing victims of Nazism before the war.

Americans as whole didn’t even know about the plight of the Jews in Nazi germany before the war. But we did rescue them once we found out.

Not really, as most ethnicities are not nearly as persecuted as Jews have been.

I’m sure one or more of the other thousands of ethnicities will disagree with this. (btw, Jews weren’t the only ones massacred on a large scale by the Nazis)

And “Western world” includes Germany; remember what happened there??

What “happenED there,” yes. That is in the past.

The Israelis sure do. However enlightened the nations of the world may be, as long as they existed on somebody else’s sufferance, they know ancestrally that it can all come to a bloody end.

ICXC NIKA

I’ve always found this implication offensive. As if at a moment’s notice (or any notice, for that matter) we’re all going to turn into anti-Semites and start another Holocaust. I am not an anti-Semite, ancestrally or otherwise.

-Chris