Vatican takes away legitmate authority of Discernmant from the Bishop of Mostar

[ProdigalSun]

spiritdaily.com/medjruling.htm

I’m curious as to why the Vatican would take away the legitmate authority of the bishop in Mostar. This seems to have happened many years ago and now the Vatican has taken it from the commision they appointed.

 

[Jimdandy]

 

[Harmony1988]

That was rather confusing, it seemed like I needed to draw a flowchart to see where the authority was going, from one place to another.

Anyways…

 

[Graing]

I didn’t see any links to an official source. It’s important to read the official source in it’s full context as sites like these colour thier postings with thier own biases. It’s fairly clear where SpiritDaily stands on the issue - they are proponents and organize tours.

 

[SongofShepherds]

This was on relevant radio as well about 2 weeks ago, as Drew Mariani devoted an hour to it. Maybe if one is interested, they can get the archived broadcast here: relevantradio.com/NETCOMMUNITY/Page.aspx?pid=641&srcid=275

I guess pewsitter ran some of the same article as well.

pewsitter.com/view_news_id_7723.php

I don’t know how to editorially judge their viewpoint.

It is too bad, that if one does a search for this story, there is not much on it.

 

[SongofShepherds]

Just adding in, it looks like Hour 2 of the April 9th Drew Mariani show. Not a fan of the guest, the host is fine.

I did object on hearing this initially, how the second part of the show became a sort of like a sale for Medjugorje in just that I don’t care to be pandered to and I am neutral on the subject but do definitely have doubts.

2 callers in a row, said they “saw the sun spinning and sun dancing” and that to me, seemed to make me wonder if this was a bit of a callin campaign. But talk about this decision is okay but it would be better to see it discussed more thoroughly.

But back to the news article, it seems to say the Vatican will instruct the local Bishops’ Commision on how and when to pronounce decisions on it.

This was on relevant radio as well about 2 weeks ago, as Drew Mariani devoted an hour to it. Maybe if one is interested, they can get the archived broadcast here: relevantradio.com/NETCOMMUNITY/Page.aspx?pid=641&srcid=275

I guess pewsitter ran some of the same article as well.

pewsitter.com/view_news_id_7723.php

I don’t know how to editorially judge their viewpoint.

It is too bad, that if one does a search for this story, there is not much on it.

 

[childofmary1143]

spiritdaily.com/medjruling.htm

I’m curious as to why the Vatican would take away the legitmate authority of the bishop in Mostar. This seems to have happened many years ago and now the Vatican has taken it from the commision they appointed.

I object to the title of this thread. By saying the Vatican is taking away legitimate authority is implying that the Vatican is somehow wrong in doing this. The Vatican is WELL within its rights to do this.

I have to wonder that if the Vatican were to approve Medjugorje how people will react to it.

 

[mdgspencer]

If this is true, it is a surprising development, since the Vatican has long respected the authority of the local bishop when it comes to such judgements.
However, I don’t know what this source which was linked to actually is, and I will suspend my acceptance of this story until I hear this from what I know is a legitimage news source. Can anyone find this information in a source like Zenit, EWTN or even in a daily newspaper?

 

[Insight]

This is interesting:

The Web portal of Radio Vatican reports in a text of July 21, 2007, that the Pope Benedict XVI, in Lorenzago di Cadore where he is staying until July 27, spent one hour in prayer in front of an image of Our Lady of Medjugorje.

Radio Vatican is saying that it was a very poignant moment.
„The Pope went to the small chapel in the forest and prayed in front of the image of Our Lady of Medjugorje. An interesting story is connected with this image: it was brought in the 80’s and was stolen. After some time, the thief brought it back to the small chapel. The Pope prayed the Rosary and spent there about one hour”, says the journalist of Radio Vatican.

medjugorje.ws/en/articles/vatican/

 

[adrift]

I object to the title of this thread. By saying the Vatican is taking away legitimate authority is implying that the Vatican is somehow wrong in doing this. The Vatican is WELL within its rights to do this.

I have to wonder that if the Vatican were to approve Medjugorje how people will react to it.

I object to the title because it is untrue. The Bishop asked the Vatican to step in as explained in the following letter by the Bishop

January 1987: Communique of Yugoslav bishops concerning the facts of Medjugorje
We publish below the text of a communique published in the Official Bulletin of the Archdiocese of Zagreb, I, 1987, p. 33, signed by His Eminence Cardinal Franjo Kuharic, President of the Yugoslav Episcopal Conference, and H.E. Most Rev. Pavao Zanic, Bishop of Mostar-Duvno, concerning the facts of Medjugorje.

In conformity with the canonical norms concerning the discernment of alleged apparitions and private revelations, the diocesan commission instituted for that purpose by the Bishop of Mostar, Ordinary of the place, has conducted an inquiry into the events of Medjugorje.

In the course of the investigation it emerged that the events in question went far beyond the diocese in question. Consequently, on the basis of the above-mentioned norms it seemed fitting to continue the investigation on the level of the Episcopal Conference with the institution of a new Commission for that purpose.

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was informed. It expressed its appreciation for the work carried out by the diocesan commission under the responsibility of the local Ordinary, and it encouraged the continuance of the work at the national episcopal level.

The Episcopal Conference, therefore, is establishing a commission to continue the investigation of the events at Medjugorje. While awaiting the results of the commission’s investigation and the Church’s judgement, pastors and faithful should observe an attitude of prudence customary in such situations. Therefore, it is not permissible to organize pilgrimages and other manifestations motivated by the supernatural character attributed to the events of Medjugorje. Legitimate devotion to Our Lady, recommended by the Church, must conform to the directives of the Magisterium and especially to those contained in the Apostolic Exhortation Marialis Cultus of 2 February 1974 (cf. AAS, 66, 1974, pp. 113-168).

Zagreb, January 29, 1987.

• Franjo Card. Kuharic
  President of the Yugoslav Episcopal Conference

• Pavao Zanic
  Bishop of Mostar

 

[SongofShepherds]

Your letter is from 1987: a lot has happened since!

I object to the title because it is untrue. The Bishop asked the Vatican to step in as explained in the following letter by the Bishop

 

[Insight]

Hi SongOfShepherds,

 The Spirit Daily article does not provide a date, but this recent Vatican repositioning is also reported on several other sites with a date.  For example; Pewsitter provides a date of April 10th, 2008.

pewsitter.com/view_news_id_7723.php

 It does seem to indicate that the Vatican has a very different discernment or perception of the Medjugorje apparitions than the Bishop of Mostar.  The differentiation appears to be broad enough for the Vatican to make such an unprecedented move as to decisively curtail His authority.  It seems to be a major victory for the millions of pilgrims, tens of thousands of Priests, and hundreds of Bishops and Cardinals from around the world who consider these apparitions authentic.

God Bless

 

[byers]

spiritdaily.com/medjruling.htm

I’m curious as to why the Vatican would take away the legitmate authority of the bishop in Mostar. This seems to have happened many years ago and now the Vatican has taken it from the commision they appointed.

ProdigalSun

This is a misleading article and a distortion of the truth and not from any legitimate source. Did you read the “sources” for this article by Michael Brown. Look underneath the article.

[resources: Medjugorje and the Church, Queen of the Cosmos, Our Lady Speaks at Medjugorje, and Medjugorje pilgrimage-retreat with Michael Brown: registration accepted until three weeks before trip]

Michael Brown is a notorious promoter of unapproved apparitions especially Medjugorje, and heads pilgrimages there.

The decisions of the bishops of Mostar are still in effect and they alone have the rightful authority to make this decision.
M. Brown is trying to imply that their authority is no longer binding and that is not true.

May I now quote from more reliable “news” source. You may read the whole article at the link below. It is about this bishops ad lamina visit with the Pope awhile back.

The Vatican only intervenes at the request of the Bishop and would NEVER “take away” his authority. Until you read a statement directly from the Vatican do not trust any other ‘source’.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0603480.htm

Bishop Peric discussed Medjugorje with Pope Benedict XVI earlier this year during a visit to the Vatican. In a summary of the discussion published in his diocesan newspaper, Bishop Peric said he had reviewed the history of the apparitions with the pope, who already was aware of the main facts from his time as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

"The Holy Father told me: We at the congregation always asked ourselves how can any believer accept as authentic apparitions that occur every day and for so many years?" Bishop Peric said.

Bishop Peric noted that Yugoslavian bishops in 1991 issued a statement that “it cannot be confirmed that supernatural apparitions or revelations are occurring” at Medjugorje.

Bishop Peric said he told the pope that his own opinion was even stronger – not only that a supernatural element cannot be proven, but that “it is certain that these events do not concern supernatural apparitions.”

At the Vatican, officials said they are still monitoring events at Medjugorje, but emphasized that** it was not necessarily the Vatican’s role to issue an official judgment on the alleged apparitions there. **
More than once in recent years, the Vatican has said that dioceses or parishes should not organize official pilgrimages to Medjugorje. That reflects the policy of the bishops.

But the Vatican has also said Catholics are free to travel to the site, and that if they do the church should provide them with pastoral services.

.I might add that “pewsitter” is also just a sight that posts news stories sent in by others. This article on their site was taken from Michael Brown’s article in Spirit Daily.

.

 

[Insight]

Hi Byers,

Simply because the SpiritDaily article lists references to resources that are favorable to the apparitions, doesn’t immediately indicate they are untrue. Consider that Fatima was an unapproved apparition up until 13 years after the Miracle and last vision. Using the same principle, anyone printing editorials favorable about the Fatima apparitions prior to 1930 would also be considered untrustworthy.

The decisions of the bishops of Mostar are still in effect and they alone have the rightful authority to make this decision. M. Brown is trying to imply that their authority is no longer binding and that is not true.

Brown didn’t author the article, he is simply the last of four listed resources. The Spirit Daily article is dated April 10, 2008. The article you provided is from 06, so it could not take this new development into account.

Your link wasn’t working, so I posted it below, hopefully this one will work:

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0603480.htm

The last paragraph of the article you posted reads: “In a special anniversary edition of “Medjugorje, The Message,” Wayne Weible says that more than 30 million people have made the trip to Medjugorje, where what is “arguably the greatest apparition in recorded Marian history” is still going on.”

I hope that we can learn a lesson from Fatima: “The miracle of Fatima was one of the greatest miracles of all time, for several reasons. It was witnessed by nearly 100,000 people, even as far as 32 miles away. All who witnessed it were astonished by the spectacular demonstration of the miracle. Not only did they see the fire of the sun detach itself and fall upon the earth, but they felt the intense heat. The flooded grounds and their soaked clothes from the torrential rain, just prior to the miracle, dried up immediately before their eyes. Some were up to their ankles in mud, then standing upon dry soil. Moreover, it was the only miracle in the history of the world that God performed at a predicted time and place. As the Holy Mother of God explained: “So that all may believe”. And who believed? The atheist communist tabloids acknowledged it as a miracle by God the very next morning. It took thirteen long years before the Holy Roman Catholic Church acknowledged the Fatima Miracle to be of Divine origin. Previous to that, witnesses reported that Priests that believed and defended the children were transferred far away from the local Parishes. Some witnesses expressed resentment for the years of pulpit reprimands, only to be followed over a dozen years later by a short statement by the Church, that the Apparitions and Miracle were “worthy of belief.” (Fatima: “Meet the Witnesses”, by John M. Haffert).

I debated with members in the “Apparitions of Mary” thread who believed the Fatima miracle was a mass hallucination. Like Fatima, Medjugorje promises a grand final miracle. This miracle is described as being greater than the one given at Fatima, and to remain indestructible till the end of time. This seems to be exactly what the doubting Thomas’ really need. But unfortunately, it comes with a warning instead: for those who needed the miracle to believe, it will be too late.

God Bless

 

[SongofShepherds]

Hi Byers,

Simply because the SpiritDaily article lists references to resources that are favorable to the apparitions, doesn’t immediately indicate they are untrue. Consider that Fatima was an unapproved apparition up until 13 years after the Miracle and last vision. Using the same principle, anyone printing editorials favorable about the Fatima apparitions prior to 1930 would also be considered untrustworthy.

Brown didn’t author the article, he is simply the last of four listed resources. The Spirit Daily article is dated April 10, 2008. The article you provided is from 06, so it could not take this new development into account.

Your link wasn’t working, so I posted it below, hopefully this one will work:

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0603480.htm

The last paragraph of the article you posted reads: “In a special anniversary edition of “Medjugorje, The Message,” Wayne Weible says that more than 30 million people have made the trip to Medjugorje, where what is “arguably the greatest apparition in recorded Marian history” is still going on.”

I hope that we can learn a lesson from Fatima: “The miracle of Fatima was one of the greatest miracles of all time, for several reasons. It was witnessed by nearly 100,000 people, even as far as 32 miles away. All who witnessed it were astonished by the spectacular demonstration of the miracle. Not only did they see the fire of the sun detach itself and fall upon the earth, but they felt the intense heat. The flooded grounds and their soaked clothes from the torrential rain, just prior to the miracle, dried up immediately before their eyes. Some were up to their ankles in mud, then standing upon dry soil. Moreover, it was the only miracle in the history of the world that God performed at a predicted time and place. As the Holy Mother of God explained: “So that all may believe”. And who believed? The atheist communist tabloids acknowledged it as a miracle by God the very next morning. It took thirteen long years before the Holy Roman Catholic Church acknowledged the Fatima Miracle to be of Divine origin. Previous to that, witnesses reported that Priests that believed and defended the children were transferred far away from the local Parishes. Some witnesses expressed resentment for the years of pulpit reprimands, only to be followed over a dozen years later by a short statement by the Church, that the Apparitions and Miracle were “worthy of belief.” (Fatima: “Meet the Witnesses”, by John M. Haffert).

I debated with members in the “Apparitions of Mary” thread who believed the Fatima miracle was a mass hallucination.

God Bless

I am rather unbiased in this story, seeking the truth and we must keep it inline as to policies of this site.

However, St. Brigitte of Sweden en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica/Bridget_of_Sweden,_Saint received visions for a time longer than what has been purported to be going on in Medjugorje, this is related to one of the above posts.

Another Seer, maybe St. Gertrude, something like that, had visions for over 20 years.

On the other side, the CNS service has quite a few stories to read via search.

Ah, also, I have reiterated some points heard on Relevant Radio, yes they were biased, but if we can still take facts, I believe the Bishop in Venezuela “approved” the Betania apparitions while still going on, so it may not always be one thing to say apparitions have to end before they are approved. I think I got that last part straight. I’ve heard about these but I am not very familiar with them.

But respectfully we all need to stay on topic here.

Also, between “legitmate” and “discernmant” the original poster may be in need of a spell checker!.