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Sam_777
Guest
:aok:
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Kaninchen
Guest
No, more like total indifference v’s, well, erm, soccer? Or ‘reality’ TV, perhaps?
I’m confident that Muslims are quite capable of becoming just as indifferent as their fellow Europeans and European Muslims will turn out to be a bigger threat to conservative Islam than the latter can possibly imagine.
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dzheremi
Guest
You may be right, Kaninchen. Only time will tell for today’s generation of European Muslims. I have known older Muslims from the very Europeanized Maghreb countries in North Africa who devoured all the rock’n’roll-styled excess of the 1960s and 1970s (since most were freed from colony status around then, thanks in large part to secularly-modelled resistence movements), and see today’s young upstarts are something very foreign to their experience. Perhaps it will just take time.
Regarding total indifference…well…that was sort of what I was getting at, yes. From what I have gathered, Europe is not the Christian-Muslim battlefield that certain politically-motivated writers and others want to convince us it is. But maybe this too will change with time, if the situation becomes such that minding your own business while you concede public space and funds to those who’d rather mind it for you in accordance with their religious view is made a thoroughly unpalatable option (this has happened in my own country in the case of “Christian Evangelicals vs. Everyone Else”, much to the dismay of self-described ‘culture warriors’ all across this land).
Regarding total indifference…well…that was sort of what I was getting at, yes. From what I have gathered, Europe is not the Christian-Muslim battlefield that certain politically-motivated writers and others want to convince us it is. But maybe this too will change with time, if the situation becomes such that minding your own business while you concede public space and funds to those who’d rather mind it for you in accordance with their religious view is made a thoroughly unpalatable option (this has happened in my own country in the case of “Christian Evangelicals vs. Everyone Else”, much to the dismay of self-described ‘culture warriors’ all across this land).
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morning_star777
Guest
Yes my friend I know that living for Christ is better than anything and that’s why I have chosen this life.And many thanks that you can understand my frustration.
Well my friend I can understand your nice explanation,but my only question is why people will not listen Church?and why they will listen muslims?That means surely churches should show much activities.I do not know about Christian missionaries but I think if they will be too much active like muslims,then people will listen them because after all they(christian missionaries) are preaching the way,the way of Lord,they are preaching the words of God,so will not people listen them if they will be active like muslim preachers?But in one point I agree,may be people of west do not know about islam and it is totaly new for them so may be they are listening muslims but if they will lose the way for the over activities of islam then it will not be very good.I just want that churches should be more active,though I do not know the real situation of America and Europe.And atheism is not a challenge I know but Islam is a great challenge and we should not under estimate Islam and that’s why christians should be more active if they want to defend their faith,but all are my personal opinion and if any one can find better solution,he/she is welcome because what will be better for christianity and for mankind,I am am ready to accept those works.And why I never want to compromise with islam?it is also for lord Jesus and for my personal problem with islam and muslims.For my personal bitter experience and the hateful teachings of Koran and hadith made me an atheist since the year of 2000 and then Christ saved me and showed me the way.And once my brother swariffine explained me via PM,that it is Lord Christ who has chosen me ,and ya I also believe that Lord Christ has chosen me and showed me The Way,and i decided to become a catholic Christian because I believe that Jesus showed me his true Church and that’s why I always pray to God for the protection of our Church from all odds.but I can say my final opinion and that is,in my life Jesus Christ is most important.I became christian even not knowing father or holy spirit but I became Christian for Jesus, like Jesus said, no one can know father except son.So via Jesus I knew God the father and Holy spirit and Islam want to destroy the name of Jesus as God and that’s why I thought that it is not good if we shall encourage muslims by thanks giving or others,but if it will bring good for Christianity then it’s all right.And I hope also in future,RCC will be glorious always and it will serve Lord Jesus always like past and present days, and holy spirit will protect her from all odds.Ok my friend thank you again for your very good explanation.And I can not express myself correctly so if you won’t understand this post please inform me,i will try my best to explain my thoughts again.May Jesus’ love and mercy always be with you.Amen
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Kaninchen
Guest
It sounds flippant to say this but there’s such a thing as fashion in politics and I would suggest that many of Europe’s young Muslims are caught up in the ‘romance’ of revolution similar to that that swept the world in decades like the 20’s and 60’s. All the us v’s them, all the certainty about some kind of Utopian future, all the revolutionary martyr business and Bin Laden as ‘Che’ (a revolutionary inspirational wall-poster figure who is out there ‘somewhere’).
Next decade, everybody’s bored with it and goes shopping.
I think American writers, in their efforts to create a 21st Century version of ‘Reds under the beds’ don’t understand European history and would voice a (distant, hopefully very, very distant) fear that such an imaginary battlefield would be far more ‘European’ than such writers could imagine - annihilation of annoying minority groups. Hopefully, we’ve grown out of it.
It’s one of the reasons why I tend to confront people posting ‘Evil Muslim ate my hamster!’ threads.
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R_not
Guest
Well, it seems that maybe you might be downplaying the problem in Europe. keep in mind also that much of the problems in Europe do not get reported correctly - they are catering to the muslims and when muslims rape, riot and cause other mayhem against non-muslims they are not mentioned to be the perps. They are called, ‘Asians’, ‘youth’, etc. And many areas the police won’t even go into anymore no matter how many crimes are being committed against non-muslims. They won’t go in to find the perps anymore.
I have mentioned the books in the past, ‘While Europe Slept’, ‘Eurasia’, and ‘Menace in Europe’.
Writing in the Daily Telegraph yesterday, Amir Taheri offered his own explanation for the terrible slaughter in Mumbai:
“…it looks as if the perpetrators were trying to imitate the tactic of ghazwa, used by the Prophet against Meccan caravans in his decade-long campaign to seize control of the city. The tactic consists of surprise no-holds-barred attacks simultaneously launched against a caravan or settlement with the aim of demoralising the enemy and hastening his capitulation.”
And it seems that most of the money for this terror attack was raised in UK mosques. It seems that British Muslims have become a mainstay of the global ‘jihad’
(Analysis by Kim Sengupta/The Independent)
More than 4,000 British Muslims have passed through terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan, according to security agencies, providing a fertile recruitment pool for the Islamist international jihad.
**British Muslim recruits have also been involved in other conflicts. Asif Hanif, 21, from London, killed three people and injured 55 by blowing himself up in Tel Aviv. A companion, Omar Sharif, 27, from Derby fled the scene after explosives strapped to his body failed to detonate and was later found dead, his body washed up on an Israeli beach.
…
Britain has also been accused of being the centre where a number of terrorist plots abroad were planned. Moutaz Almallah Dabas, a Syrian-born Spanish citizen accused of helping those who took part in the 2004 Madrid train bombings, was extradited from London to Spain after the discovery of links between the attack and an alleged cell in England.
**
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Muslim_Woman
Guest
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Salaam/ Peace
Do u really believe prayers of human being will be able to save a person who is guilty of taking diety besides God ? Pl don’t start telling me Christians believe in one God . U may give example of a Muslim who commits blasphemy.
Salaam/ Peace
God warned in your holy book that He is jealous & will take revenge who takes other diety.
Do u really believe prayers of human being will be able to save a person who is guilty of taking diety besides God ? Pl don’t start telling me Christians believe in one God . U may give example of a Muslim who commits blasphemy.
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ChristIsLord
Guest
Muslims/Islam have a lot of fantastic virtues that put the majority of Christians to shame (not real Christians, just C.I.N.O.). They have outstanding family values, unashamed to worship God in the public square, temperance with alcohol, live a full prayer life etc…
I differ with Muslims when it comes to the prophethood of Muhammed, and of course the Diety of Jesus. But that doesn’t mean I can’t acknowledge the good in the religion. Not everything has to be black and white, good or bad. Religions can still be wrong and have a lot of common good in them. Christians would be apt to adopt the prayerful life of Muslims, the chastity and modesty of their women etc…
I differ with Muslims when it comes to the prophethood of Muhammed, and of course the Diety of Jesus. But that doesn’t mean I can’t acknowledge the good in the religion. Not everything has to be black and white, good or bad. Religions can still be wrong and have a lot of common good in them. Christians would be apt to adopt the prayerful life of Muslims, the chastity and modesty of their women etc…
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Thanks for you loving comments; with differences we should learn to live peacefully and let live others peacefully in this world. Only GodAllah would judge everybody in the hereafter; we only have to love one another.
Regards
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inJESUS
Guest
I don’t see anything wrong with all this and it is a good gesture from someone who leads inter-religious dialogues. If the people in question were other than Muslims, probably he’d have said the same about them.
The cardinal is neither saying he believes in Islam, nor that all Muslims are better than others. There are Muslims in Europe who put Islam and all Arabs to shame but there are good people as well…the cardinal is simply contrasting the dialogues and interest in religion with secularism and atheism and if these people happened to be Mormons, he’d probably have said the same.
The cardinal is neither saying he believes in Islam, nor that all Muslims are better than others. There are Muslims in Europe who put Islam and all Arabs to shame but there are good people as well…the cardinal is simply contrasting the dialogues and interest in religion with secularism and atheism and if these people happened to be Mormons, he’d probably have said the same.
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Muslim_Woman
Guest
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Salaam/ Peace
wooww ; some Catholics hate Islam & Muslims so much ; it’s hard to read their posts , I can feel their hatred for us & some can write so nice post ? Thanks
Salaam/ Peace
wooww ; some Catholics hate Islam & Muslims so much ; it’s hard to read their posts , I can feel their hatred for us & some can write so nice post ? Thanks
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dzheremi
Guest
Perhaps you are right. I don’t know. I think maybe some people (not just in Europe) are too comfortable with Christianity: They have heard it before, maybe all of their lives, and decided that they understand it and accept it, but don’t actually do anything about it. Probably missionaries wouldn’t be listened to by these people, since these people think that they are already Christian, and that the people who preach to others are “crazy”, and they don’t want to offend people like the crazy missionaries do. I see this a lot with a few local guys (not Catholics) who will stand on street corners wearing signs that read “trust Jesus”, and preach. People make fun of these guys, call them crazy, yell abuse at them sometimes. It is sad. I think these street-corner preachers mean to spread the gospel (or at least some version of it), but this method is not so effective in a secular country, where even “Christian” people are uncomfortable with showing their faith in such a way, and think that it’s silly or it makes them uncomfortable. For me, this is not my style either, and sometimes I think those guys are annoying (only when they start to really yell and say to random people that they’ll go to hell without Jesus…it’s true, but how do you think it makes people who aren’t Christian react? I can’t imagine any non-Christian wanting to learn more because of that talk), but I am not embarrassed by my faith at all. I have always talked about it with anyone who has asked, and everyone I know has been very respectful about it when they realize my seriousness. Maybe I should be more active to bring it to people, but I prefer to speak softly and in deep discussions instead of yelling slogans like “HELL AWAITS UNBELIEVERS!” or something.
All countries of the world strong believers like you, morning_star!
I also do not ever want to compromise with Islam. I won’t. It is not out of hatred for Muslims, but love and wanting them to come to know the Messiah as He is shown in Apostolic Christianity, not Islam. If we are too “soft”, they won’t ever have to do that. So we cannot at any time pretend like they know the truth just because they say that they respect Jesus. It is not respectful to deny His holy sacrifice and His glorious resurrection, so whatever they DO respect Him for is serving their own ideology, not God! I hope we never, ever forget this as our focus. Inter-faith dialogue is fine, but we must stick to our principles, and to serve God is above all else.Thank you, dear Morning_Star. God bless you. I believe I have understood you, but if there is anything I have misunderstood, I apologize. I am glad you have shared your views with me. Thank you!
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cathopologist
Guest
God is also a loving, forgiveful God. Souls that led a sinful life on earth, but believed in God are most likely in Purgatory. Catholics have All Souls Day, when we pray for the dearly departed souls in hopes of them achieving salvation whilst undergoing the Purging process. Christians do believe in One God. Why shouldn’t i emphasize that? Because it exposes the Qu’ran to be in error when it makes a supposed definitive statement about the Christian God? I am not a Muslim to give an example of a Muslim who commits blasphemy. That is your job.
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cathopologist
Guest
Take that beam out of your eye.wooww ; some Catholics hate Islam & Muslims so much ; it’s hard to read their posts , I can feel their hatred for us & some can write so nice post ? Thanks
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ChristIsLord
Guest
No problem, I hope my son finds himself a nice Muslim woman (he would have to convert though I guess), I can’t help but feel that modesty and chastity of western women is basically non-existant these days. There’s no shame in admitting that we Christians can learn a few things from the Muslims, it doesn’t mean we have to believe the religion, just see the common good in it.http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
Salaam/ Peace
wooww ; some Catholics hate Islam & Muslims so much ; it’s hard to read their posts , I can feel their hatred for us & some can write so nice post ? Thanks
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ChristIsLord
Guest
No problem, I spent time in the Middle East and was jealous about how Muslims truly lived thier faith, it was right there in your face, the call to prayer, closing shops to worship, I really thought it was great.
In our society faith has become the other “F word”… It’s like a curse, a dirty word, go to Church but don’t talk about it or let people know, it’s sad our society has denegrated as far as it has. if Muslims with thier zeal for thier faith can bring God back into the Wests daily thought process, then it’s a good thing.
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R_not
Guest
Outstanding family values - polygamy, beating wives, ‘honor killings’ (and if they tell you that doesn’t exist - well, then they are not telling you that sharia laws allows it to exist and when subjugated to sharia laws no one is allowed to change them and definitely no rights are given to non-muslims to change anything), divorce and men taking the children - no child payments, no alimony - wives are just dumped, slaves (they can rape the slaves whenever they want and that includes the little boys and girls), and the list just keeps on going on their ‘family values’.
Their display of worship is just that - a display for ones such as yourself.
Oh, did I mention that slavery still exists in islam? Some even tried to bring their slaves here to the USA - and the slavers who have gotten caught (I am sure we haven’t caught all of them) are in prison now.
No adoption is allowed in islam - instead they can take children and use them as slaves for all sorts of atrocities - sex, beatings, etc.
Slavery in islam
This one is a *must see *on how the muslim males can let their women get suckled by other grown males. And this fatwa was issued in 2007! But, it is all in their texts that suckling is ok - per their ‘prophet’. It also has in it about slavery.
suckling:
Most things that some might think as better in islam is just a facade.
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morning_star777
Guest
Well my friend,thank you very much for this explanation.Your explanation is really very helpful.And ya you have understood what I wanted to sayPerhaps you are right. I don’t know. I think maybe some people (not just in Europe) are too comfortable with Christianity: They have heard it before, maybe all of their lives, and decided that they understand it and accept it, but don’t actually do anything about it. Probably missionaries wouldn’t be listened to by these people, since these people think that they are already Christian, and that the people who preach to others are “crazy”, and they don’t want to offend people like the crazy missionaries do. I see this a lot with a few local guys (not Catholics) who will stand on street corners wearing signs that read “trust Jesus”, and preach. People make fun of these guys, call them crazy, yell abuse at them sometimes. It is sad. I think these street-corner preachers mean to spread the gospel (or at least some version of it), but this method is not so effective in a secular country, where even “Christian” people are uncomfortable with showing their faith in such a way, and think that it’s silly or it makes them uncomfortable. For me, this is not my style either, and sometimes I think those guys are annoying (only when they start to really yell and say to random people that they’ll go to hell without Jesus…it’s true, but how do you think it makes people who aren’t Christian react? I can’t imagine any non-Christian wanting to learn more because of that talk), but I am not embarrassed by my faith at all. I have always talked about it with anyone who has asked, and everyone I know has been very respectful about it when they realize my seriousness. Maybe I should be more active to bring it to people, but I prefer to speak softly and in deep discussions instead of yelling slogans like “HELL AWAITS UNBELIEVERS!” or something.
All countries of the world strong believers like you, morning_star!
Thank you, dear Morning_Star. God bless you. I believe I have understood you, but if there is anything I have misunderstood, I apologize. I am glad you have shared your views with me. Thank you!
.Jesus bless and save you always.Amen
R
R_not
Guest
What their stated goal is to not necessarily convert us but to subjugate us and that means we have no rights under sharia law - the laws they want to enact. And if you don’t think it won’t happen - the banks are already looking at them. The UK is already incorporating them into their laws. And they continually pound at our businesses, schools, media, etc to enact them - they are bringing back segregation under the guise of modesty when in fact they think that non-muslims are dirty and even their own women are dirty with the muslim male being the supreme beings.
If whites, or Christians, brought back segregation we would be bashed into non-existence - but the muslims are succeeding it bringing it back while nitwits in areas allow it. Where is the ACLU? Probably getting a paycheck from the Saudis to sit back and do nothing.
- even muslims live in constant fear of offending a cleric.
- women are 2nd class citizens not able to vote in most of their lands
- the ‘modesty’ police could arrest muslim (mostly) women at any time
- none are able to vote for laws that could be contrary to sharia
- sharia law doesn’t do anything to those who commit ‘honor killings’, killings of apostates, or killings of non-muslims.
- islam’s clerics would lose control if they let muslims be exposed to other religions, or ideas. That is why no questioning, and their total subjugation and demeaning of others.
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LDNCatholic
Guest
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