Vatican theologians OK alleged miracle attributed to Pope Paul VI

[Trader]

washingtonpost.com/national/religion/vatican-theologians-ok-alleged-miracle-attributed-to-pope-paul-vi/2014/02/26/00fcc22e-9f29-11e3-878c-65222df220eb_story.html

Pope Paul VI may finally get some of the respect he deserves. I was in the seminary during his reign and saw firsthand the damage done to the the Church and individuals when priests, theologians, and even some bishops rejected Humanae Vitae. Those seminarians who rejected the truth about human nature, marriage, and sexuality were disproportionately those who were later involved in the sexual abuse of minors.

If you go back and read what Pope Paul wrote in 1968, it is clear that his predictions of the consequences for breaking the link between sex and procreation were prophetic. There is a direct link to the loss of respect for women and for marriage, and the acceptance of abortion, and homosexual activity to be considered normal and even good.

 

[TRH1292]

 

[7armyrugrats]

This is so very true.

 

[glendab]

Praise God and thanks for the heads up Trader. I have a medal of his. I love his eyes. They seem penetrating and intense. He is a Saint if you ask me.

Glenda

 

[Trader]

This absolutely is a serious story, and I don’t want to throw it off track, but if you only look at the miracle being studied, it would be easy to just say the doctors were wrong in the first place.

I have known some doctors who think it would be a miracle if they were ever wrong, and it reminds me of an old joke:

Q) What is the difference between a doctor and God?

A) God knows He is not a doctor.

 

[RPRPsych]

washingtonpost.com/national/religion/vatican-theologians-ok-alleged-miracle-attributed-to-pope-paul-vi/2014/02/26/00fcc22e-9f29-11e3-878c-65222df220eb_story.html

Pope Paul VI may finally get some of the respect he deserves.

The way most liberals and a few traditionalists demonize the man is truly appalling.

I was in the seminary during his reign and saw firsthand the damage done to the the Church and individuals when priests, theologians, and even some bishops rejected Humanae Vitae. Those seminarians who rejected the truth about human nature, marriage, and sexuality were disproportionately those who were later involved in the sexual abuse of minors.

Sadly, this is quite true.

If you go back and read what Pope Paul wrote in 1968, it is clear that his predictions of the consequences for breaking the link between sex and procreation were prophetic. There is a direct link to the loss of respect for women and for marriage, and the acceptance of abortion, and homosexual activity to be considered normal and even good.

He was a prophet for our times, that’s certain.

 

[glendab]

Hello Trader.

I cannot get the article to pop up. Can you provide a better link?

Glenda

 

[MomaMary8]

This absolutely is a serious story, and I don’t want to throw it off track, but if you only look at the miracle being studied, it would be easy to just say the doctors were wrong in the first place.

I have known some doctors who think it would be a miracle if they were ever wrong, and it reminds me of an old joke:

Q) What is the difference between a doctor and God?

A) God knows He is not a doctor.

I, too, would like to know more about the miracle, but I do know enough about the Church’s investigations of miracles to know to trust the Church. The job of those on the team to investigate the miracles is to find any earthly reason the incident could have happened. We will know more about the miracle once Congregation of the Causes of Saints has certified the miracle. I look forward to reading about this miracle attributed to the intercession of Pope Paul VI.

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=20605

 

[ProVobis]

Perhaps his best observation was the one he made about the “smoke of Satan” permeating the Church after Vatican II.

 

[robwar]

Hello Trader.

I cannot get the article to pop up. Can you provide a better link?

Glenda

I goggle searched it and the miracle concerns an unborn baby that the Drs told the mother to abort because they thought the baby was brain damaged. The mother refused and prayed to the late Pope and the baby was born healthy and fine. What a cool miracle considering that he stood up for truth in an era of contraception and free sex. How wonderful!

 

[Trader]

Hello Trader.

I cannot get the article to pop up. Can you provide a better link?

Glenda

I just clicked on the link and it worked for me, but first I had to endure one of their ads. I deliberately picked a secular news site like the Washington Post because I personally find it more interesting to see how they cover religious news. That absolutely does not mean I trust them to get the story right.

The article cites religionnews.com as their source for this piece, so I went there and searched their site. Here is the link to the source article:

religionnews.com/2013/12/13/miracle-puts-pope-paul-iv-one-step-closer-sainthood/

I hope it works better for you.

PS. If you read the comments after the article it is perfectly apparent how little respect Paul VI gets for speaking the truth. It reminds me of his boss who was crucified for doing the same thing.

 

[robwar]

I just clicked on the link and it worked for me, but first I had to endure one of their ads. I deliberately picked a secular news site like the Washington Post because I personally find it more interesting to see how they cover religious news. That absolutely does not mean I trust them to get the story right.

The article cites religionnews.com as their source for this piece, so I went there and searched their site. Here is the link to the source article:

religionnews.com/2013/12/13/miracle-puts-pope-paul-iv-one-step-closer-sainthood/

I hope it works better for you.

PS. If you read the comments after the article it is perfectly apparent how little respect Paul VI gets for speaking the truth. It reminds me of his boss who was crucified for doing the same thing.

thanks Trader!

 

[RedCaves]

I suppose they decided to ignore Fr. Luigi Villa’s allegations against Paul VI…

 

[RPRPsych]

I suppose they decided to ignore Fr. Luigi Villa’s allegations against Paul VI…

Ven. Paul VI, pray for the above poster, that he may learn the meaning of “Thou shalt not bear false witness.”

 

[ProVobis]

The way most liberals and a few traditionalists demonize the man is truly appalling.

I don’t see why the “liberals” would have a beef. After all he allowed the use of “conscience” in deciding size of families (Progressio Populorum #37), relaxed the fasting and meat abstinence rules, reformed the liturgy apparently to their satisfaction, inter alia.

 

[RPRPsych]

I don’t see why the “liberals” would have a beef. After all he allowed the use of “conscience” in deciding size of families (Progressio Populorum #37)

But only through NFP, right?

, relaxed the fasting and meat abstinence rules,

That wasn’t really a hot-button issue for them.

reformed the liturgy apparently to their satisfaction, inter alia.

Or rather, tried to impose some order on their clowning by having an official vernacular Mass.

Besides: Humanae Vitae. Those are swear words in some circles.

 

[ProVobis]

Besides: Humanae Vitae. Those are swear words in some circles.

Not among most who had already decided to use their consciences IMO. If not, they could simply find a priest who was willing to tell them it was okay to use ABC. Or had already found one as HV was very slow in developing. But in the end HV was nothing really new; the conscience clause was.

 

[RPRPsych]

Not among most who had already decided to use their consciences IMO. If not, they could simply find a priest who was willing to tell them it was okay to use ABC.

I take it the “conscience clause” is a sore spot, so I won’t probe. But if priests were telling people to use ABC, the fault is surely theirs and not Ven. Paul VI’s.

Moreover, people were already using the “conscience clause” before Populorum Progressio; the licitness of NFP can be found in pre-Paul VI Denzinger references. And some very eminent Catholics, such as Francisco Franco, weren’t known for particularly large families. (My own maternal grandmother, living before Indians had even heard of “family planning”, stopped at four.)

Or had already found one as HV was very slow in developing. But in the end HV was nothing really new; the conscience clause was.

It’s true that he did take his own time about that decision - but, thank God, he took the right one. In its own way, though it was “nothing new”, HV is the post-Vatican II’s equivalent of the Syllabus of Errors.

 

[ProVobis]

I take it the “conscience clause” is a sore spot, so I won’t probe. But if priests were telling people to use ABC, the fault is surely theirs and not Ven. Paul VI’s.

Fair point, but you know how people get when they wait for something. Bishops didn’t know for sure, priests didn’t know. All they could do is make observations about the fact that the Pope had assembled a group of moral theologians, who were openly expressing their feelings and vote on the matter during discussions.

 

[RPRPsych]

Fair point, but you know how people get when they wait for something. Bishops didn’t know for sure, priests didn’t know. All they could do is make observations about the fact that the Pope had assembled a group of moral theologians, who were openly expressing their feelings and vote on the matter during discussions.

Good point. It was a difficult time, and even though Paul VI made the right decision in the end, the delay didn’t help matters.