Vatican to debate teachings on divorce, birth control, gay unions

[shelby_sun]

Please, I don’t like or dislike you. You asked about the word the meaning of the word “love” in that post which I did not bring up ,so you haven’t read my post which if you had you have given you more information.

I glad you got healing from your annulment.I would have already left the Church if my mother had to do that to get remarried. She did not get annulment nor did she remarry. My father did without an annulment and went to Mass everyday except Sunday because hate the horrible music most Catholic Church play. My father died 12 years ago and I am not about to say if he is in heaven or hell.

If I ever do get divorce and find someone I want to marry, I guess I would have to leave the Church over it. People can twist it in anyway they want, but the bottom line is if the marriage should never have happened or was null form the very beginning then children that result from the marriage should have never should have happen and I will NEVER let my children think that not even for the Church.

 

[Tigg]

If I ever do get divorce and find someone I want to marry, I guess I would have to leave the Church over it. People can twist it in anyway they want, but the bottom line is if the marriage should never have happened or was null form the very beginning then children that result from the marriage should have never should have happen and I will NEVER let my children think that not even for the Church.

Just something to think about. Your children are precious in the eyes of the Lord which is just one of the reasons why His divine law forbids divorce. You write about the “Church” as a cold, unloving entity making up her own rules and one separate from Christ. Not knowing your individual circumstance nor if an annulment is possible for you, it nonetheless seems as though you have forgotten, or else do not believe, that the “Church” was founded by Christ and it is He, Christ Himself, **not **man or the pope or the hierarchy, who declares that divorce is immoral because it introduces *disorder into the family *and into society.

 

[Tomdstone]

… it nonetheless seems as though you have forgotten, or else do not believe, that the “Church” was founded by Christ and it is He, Christ Himself, **not **man or the pope or the hierarchy, who declares that divorce is immoral because it introduces *disorder into the family *and into society.

If divorce is immoral, then why do the Roman Catholic Church tribunals in the USA require that the couple get a divorce before applying for the annulment?

 

[Corki]

If divorce is immoral, then why do the Roman Catholic Church tribunals in the USA require that the couple get a divorce before applying for the annulment?

Because an intact marriage enjoys the presumption of validity.

 

[Teelynn]

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve said this in a post, but in the eyes of the Church it is not intrinsically evil to obtain a divorce! Yes, of course, the Church is against divorce and will try to help in any way for a couple to save their marriage. Divorce causes terrible emotional, and financial fall out both with the spouses and the children as well. But, in some cases, divorce is UNAVOIDABLE. And, you can still go to Communion after a divorce as long as you are not either remarried or in an intimate relationship with someone. You are not ‘excommunicated’ so to speak for just being a divorcee. There are many posts I have read that indicate that people are not aware of this.

 

[McCall1981]

I gave my little spiel a couple of pages back, and I’m wondering, what do you all think is going to come of the Synod? What do you think the results will be when all is said and done?

 

[Tomdstone]

Starting the annulment process “$$$” doesn’t guarantee you an annulment.

What percentage of people, who have applied for the annulment, are actually denied the annulment?

 

[Yause]

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve said this in a post, but in the eyes of the Church it is not intrinsically evil to obtain a divorce! Yes, of course, the Church is against divorce and will try to help in any way for a couple to save their marriage. Divorce causes terrible emotional, and financial fall out both with the spouses and the children as well. But, in some cases, divorce is UNAVOIDABLE. And, you can still go to Communion after a divorce as long as you are not either remarried or in an intimate relationship with someone. You are not ‘excommunicated’ so to speak for just being a divorcee. There are many posts I have read that indicate that people are not aware of this.

I think it’s well understood in this particular thread. The stickling point is remarriage when an annulment is out of the question, whether it’s because of a hangup over logical implications or because of the limited grounds for dispensation (i.e. someone might become divorced as a result of abandonment, yet fail to qualify for an annulment).

At any rate, mandatory celibacy doesn’t seem to be an accepted answer, especially if a second family already exists. Other issues might be social/family expectation (in this case, there’s also a good chance that a divorce is only filed when one is ready to start anew with a specific person) or the desire for companionship into old age, so from that perspective, one might conclude that divorce is an effective excommunication.

McCall1981:

what do you all think is going to come of the Synod? What do you think the results will be when all is said and done?

I wouldn’t begin to guess at the results.

However, I’m pretty confident that special dispensation for communion will be discussed. It will be favored by some bishops and opposed by others. To promote collegiality, a lot of voices will be considered.

Based on the preparatory document and the contents of the survey, I’d also wager that particular attention will be placed on how the Church can administer to children whose parents are living in prohibited arrangements. On one hand, there’s a need to emphasize Catholic teaching and condemn sin. However, guiding children to Christ when their parents are separated from the Church (or are willfully breaking the rules while still practicing the faith) is a huge challenge.

 

[Tigg]

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve said this in a post, but in the eyes of the Church it is not intrinsically evil to obtain a divorce! Yes, of course, the Church is against divorce and will try to help in any way for a couple to save their marriage. Divorce causes terrible emotional, and financial fall out both with the spouses and the children as well. But, in some cases, divorce is UNAVOIDABLE. And, you can still go to Communion after a divorce as long as you are not either remarried or in an intimate relationship with someone. You are not ‘excommunicated’ so to speak for just being a divorcee. There are many posts I have read that indicate that people are not aware of this.

It is human nature that refuses to accept the consequences of divorce according to God’s law which would be to live a celibate life if no annulment is possible. As tragic as divorce is, I find it even more tragic that people would choose to give up their sacramental life for another person; that grace-filled union with Christ which would bring them to salvation.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

If I ever do get divorce and find someone I want to marry, I guess I would have to leave the Church over it. People can twist it in anyway they want, but the bottom line is if the marriage should never have happened or was null form the very beginning then children that result from the marriage should have never should have happen and I will NEVER let my children think that not even for the Church.

Solomon was conceived through the union of David with Bathsheba – clearly a sinful act of adultery. And yet, Solomon is praised by God as the wisest of all men.

Surely David considered Solomon a grace that God brought out of his sin, not “someone who should have never existed.”

 

[shelby_sun]

Solomon was conceived through the union of David with Bathsheba – clearly a sinful act of adultery. And yet, Solomon is praised by God as the wisest of all men.

Surely David considered Solomon a grace that God brought out of his sin, not “someone who should have never existed.”

Sorry but coming from divorced parents, we all would have had a very difficult time if either of my parents got annulments. I don’t think any marriage that produces children should ever been deemed invalid, even by the Church because it does affect of the children worth whether or not you understand that. My mother has been alone for forty years, but she stopped going to Mass after should understood what the Church annulment truly meant. My father remarried in a civil ceremony, went to Church everyday except Sunday, and lived in sin. I guess they are both doomed.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Sorry but coming from divorced parents, we all would have had a very difficult time if either of my parents got annulments. I don’t think any marriage that produces children should ever been deemed invalid, even by the Church because it does affect of the children worth whether or not you understand that. My mother has been alone for forty years, but she stopped going to Mass after should understood what the Church annulment truly meant. My father remarried in a civil ceremony, went to Church everyday except Sunday, and lived in sin. I guess they are both doomed.

Perhaps the harmful thing here is the notion that God is sitting back and waiting to damn us based on any technicality He can find??? The Church doesn’t teach that. Some Catholics do, but the Church doesn’t.

 

[Seamus_L]

Somehow I just have a feeling this conference will leave us with more questions than answers.

 

[Joe_5859]

Somehow I just have a feeling this conference will leave us with more questions than answers.

That’s not entirely outside the realm of possibility. I am more optimistic, though. They’ve got the extraordinary synod this year and the ordinary synod next year. I think that between the two of them, we will see some very good stuff that will lay to rest some of the more extreme speculating.

 

[shelby_sun]

That’s not entirely outside the realm of possibility. I am more optimistic, though. They’ve got the extraordinary synod this year and the ordinary synod next year. I think that between the two of them, we will see some very good stuff that will lay to rest some of the more extreme speculating.

So true. I never discuss many of these things outside this forum, and I am shocked to find out how many issues are unclear when reading all the different things the Church has written. Like I said in another post excessive eating, tobacco, and medicine goes against the Church because of lack or respect to the body God gave you. Who decide what is excess?

The Church is having people worrying over so many things, when it should be focusing on The Commandments, the most important teachings, the sacraments, and the Trinity. Most Catholic have a hard enough time getting those things down.

 

[One_point]

The Church is having people worrying over so many things, when it should be focusing on The Commandments, the most important teachings, the sacraments, and the Trinity. Most Catholic have a hard enough time getting those things down.

With due respect, who decides what constitutes “most important teachings”? The church teaches us what she teaches us because God revealed it, and God revealed it because it is important. We don’t decide based on our feelings that some things are trivial. We are not the authority, God is.

 

[McCall1981]

Perhaps the harmful thing here is the notion that God is sitting back and waiting to damn us based on any technicality He can find??? The Church doesn’t teach that. Some Catholics do, but the Church doesn’t.

Isn’t it also a harmful notion that God is sitting back disregarding His own teachings and letting us do whatever we want consequence free? The Church doesn’t teach that, but a lot of Catholics certainly do.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Isn’t it also a harmful notion that God is sitting back disregarding His own teachings and letting us do whatever we want consequence free? The Church doesn’t teach that, but a lot of Catholics certainly do.

Total non-sequitor. Are you under the impression that the Church either has to teach that all wrongdoers are damned, or that people can do whatever they want consequence free?

Surely there’s a third way.

 

[shelby_sun]

With due respect, who decides what constitutes “most important teachings”? The church teaches us what she teaches us because God revealed it, and God revealed it because it is important. We don’t decide based on our feelings that some things are trivial. We are not the authority, God is.

Well I would think that the Ten Commandments would be seen as a little more important than some other Church teaching, wouldn’t say?

 

[Tigg]

Well I would think that the Ten Commandments would be seen as a little more important than some other Church teaching, wouldn’t say?

I presume we’re still on the topic of this thread and since Jesus said, “Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery” - (Luke 16:18; . Mark 10:11–12)

and the 6th Commandment is “Thou shalt not commit adultery” I don’t think I understand your point about the Church.