"Vatican to Issue Stamp Featuring Martin Luther"

[pnewton]

Martin Luther, who accepted most Marian doctrines, would find himself in sharp conflict with Lutherans of today.

Still, as Karl Keating noted in a recent article: “Many people—mostly Protestants, of course, but also not a few Catholics—are talking of “celebrating” the Protestant Reformation. I am not one of them, because there is nothing to celebrate…”

I don’t know about others here, but I do see value in commemorating without celebration. I would not object to a stamp of the Twin Towers, for example, but I do not think of it as celebrating anything.

I do not mean to dwell on past mistakes, but Martin Luther did not rise in a vacuum. If not him, it would have been another person that rose in response to some serious mistakes the Church made at the time. We should never forget the Reformation. It was the turning point away from increased secularization of the Church. Because of this tragedy, we have the great Council of Trent that did so much for the Church.

 

[TMC]

I have probably said this before on this forum, but I don’t understand the hate that a minority of Catholics seem to have for Luther. The Church does not teach or support that hate. As I said earlier, the last three Popes have all praised Luther. I actually think that the Church would consider honoring Luther in some more formal way, but holds off because of the strong feelings of a small minority.

 

[St_Francis]

I have probably said this before on this forum, but I don’t understand the hate that a minority of Catholics seem to have for Luther. The Church does not teach or support that hate. As I said earlier, the last three Popes have all praised Luther. I actually think that the Church would consider honoring Luther in some more formal way, but holds off because of the strong feelings of a small minority.

Not wanting him on a Vatican stamp, thinking he was destructive to the untiy of Christ’s Church, neither of these are “hate.”

 

[katy]

I don’t know about others here, but I do see value in commemorating without celebration. I would not object to a stamp of the Twin Towers, for example, but I do not think of it as celebrating anything.

I do not mean to dwell on past mistakes, but Martin Luther did not rise in a vacuum. If not him, it would have been another person that rose in response to some serious mistakes the Church made at the time. We should never forget the Reformation. It was the turning point away from increased secularization of the Church. Because of this tragedy, we have the great Council of Trent that did so much for the Church.

There were a number of reform minded people at the time, but they didn’t wind up calling the pope the anti-christ or splitting with the church.

 

[7_Sorrows]

They’re the most liberal ones. They accept everything you’d listed. I think they are approaching the Catholic Church because they’re at verge of extinction. It’s very hard in a secular world to take the Bible as the only authority about Christianity.

I am confused. I can’t follow your thinking. why would the liberals want dialogue? I thought it was the conservative protestants who are almost extinct. Maybe I have missed something.

 

[JimG]

Another quote from Karl Keating:
“I see nothing to celebrate in the Protestant Reformation. It was the greatest disaster the West suffered over the last millennium. It brought theological confusion, political turmoil, and decades of war. The religious wars of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries killed about three percent of the world’s population, the same proportion that died in World War II. The religious wars would not have occurred had the Reformation not occurred.”

catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/not-a-reformation-but-a-revolution

The Church always needs reform. It needs reformers like Francis of Assisi, Catherine of Siena, reformers who reform rather then tear the Church asunder.

 

[pnewton]

Another quote from Karl Keating:
“I see nothing to celebrate in the Protestant Reformation. It was the greatest disaster the West suffered over the last millennium. It brought theological confusion, political turmoil, and decades of war. The religious wars of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries killed about three percent of the world’s population, the same proportion that died in World War II. The religious wars would not have occurred had the Reformation not occurred.”

catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/not-a-reformation-but-a-revolution

The Church always needs reform. It needs reformers like Francis of Assisi, Catherine of Siena, reformers who reform rather then tear the Church asunder.

The problem with quoting others is that there is no way to converse. For example, the last sentence is speculative and does not account for the political motivation of the European wars. With no Reformation, I do not see two centuries of peace, Luther or no Luther. In fact, what is made is the same argument made against the Catholic Church for some of the atrocities rulers committed in the name of the Church.

Then there was Henry VIII. I think it a stretch to say that without Luther he would have acquiesced to the Pope.

 

[Randolph]

Once against LSN shows that the only thing true in its name is that it is a site. It has departed the issue of life to pursue other targets, with a history of anti-catholicism. It lacks any sense of journalism, reporting without references, using exaggeration and rhetoric to keep cutting at the body of Christ.

You people should really pay more attention to what the Church says and not what the enemy says. There is never a shortage of people want to serve the accuser of the brethren. If this last election cycle taught us nothing is that there is a lot of internet news is just back fence gossip.

PNewton. I frankly don’t know much about LSN, or whether or not it is legit. In the past, I did read articles from LSN and they were factually correct. You lay some serious/damaging charges on this site. I would really like to know from you more information and evidences proving your claims. If what you said is in fact true, I will no longer trust this site.

 

[fin]

Randolph, pnewton and many posters here are wrong. They do not like LSN that is why they say it is unreliable. It is reliable.

Even if I am the only one on CAF who says this. This is not a popularity contest, just simply stating the truth. Those who disagree with LSN act like leftist whiners, going so far as to attack other members here.

 

[pnewton]

PNewton. I frankly don’t know much about LSN, or whether or not it is legit. In the past, I did read articles from LSN and they were factually correct.

I was specific in my reasoning. The Vatican’s philately is not a life issue by anyone’s definition. Also, the article, whether factually correct or not, does not give any evidence to support what was said. Not just them, but *any *internet site which one goes to for information, should be weighed by their ability to support what they say. Their one supporting link only supports the existence of the Vatican office which issues stamps.

Check out their other links. They have a habit of linking support back to their own articles in an endless circle. I would bet they link themselves more than every one else combined.

 

[MaryT777]

I have probably said this before on this forum, but I don’t understand the hate that a minority of Catholics seem to have for Luther. The Church does not teach or support that hate. As I said earlier, the last three Popes have all praised Luther. I actually think that the Church would consider honoring Luther in some more formal way, but holds off because of the strong feelings of a small minority.

I think the problem is because the conservative Lutherans LCMS and WELS still teach the Pope is the very ANTICHRIST of the Bible. That doesn’t bring warm fuzzy feelings to Catholics. The CONCORD book teachings are what LCMS and WELS pastors swear to believe to be ordained.

SEE BELOW

The claim that the pope is the Antichrist has been part of anti-Catholic rhetoric since the Reformation, when it was needed to justify the Protestant Reformers’ desire to leave the Catholic Church.*

Thus the LutheranBook of Concordstates, “[T]he pope is the real Antichrist who has raised himself over and set himself against Christ . . . Accordingly, just as we cannot adore the devil himself as our lord or God, so we cannot suffer his apostle, the pope or Antichrist, to govern us as our head or lord” (Smalcald Articles2:4:10, 14).catholic.com/tract/the-antichrist

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR REMINDER

Participants are strongly reminded that charity is essential to our discussions here.

If you wish to review the subject, please see [thread=132852]Charity[/thread] for specifics, or [thread=116150]CAF rules[/thread] for an overview, both of which are located in the Rules of the Road sub-forum.

 

[RPRPsych]

Once against LSN shows that the only thing true in its name is that it is a site. It has departed the issue of life to pursue other targets, with a history of anti-catholicism. It lacks any sense of journalism, reporting without references, using exaggeration and rhetoric to keep cutting at the body of Christ.

You people should really pay more attention to what the Church says and not what the enemy says. There is never a shortage of people want to serve the accuser of the brethren. If this last election cycle taught us nothing is that there is a lot of internet news is just back fence gossip.

LSN is a perfect example of a “post-truth” website: take some facts, mix them with gossip, innuendo and personal opinion, and present the same as if it were directly handed down from Mount Sinai. It’s no different from the Fishwrap / National Catholic Reporter except in its political polarity.

I can just imagine the scene:

“Lord, did we not post in the comboxes of LSN / Fishwrap for you? Did we not defend said sites against evil left-/right-wingers on Internet forums for you?”

The response? “I never knew you.”

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR REMINDER

Participants are strongly reminded that charity is essential to our discussions here.

If you wish to review the subject, please see [thread=132852]Charity[/thread] for specifics, or [thread=116150]CAF rules[/thread] for an overview, both of which are located in the Rules of the Road sub-forum.

 

[Wesrock]

I have liked seeing the greater ecumenism between Catholicism and Lutheranism, even the marking of the anniversary of the Protestant Reformation together, but this seems a bit much.

 

[Randolph]

Randolph, pnewton and many posters here are wrong. They do not like LSN that is why they say it is unreliable. It is reliable.

Even if I am the only one on CAF who says this. This is not a popularity contest, just simply stating the truth. Those who disagree with LSN act like leftist whiners, going so far as to attack other members here.

Fin… Read my previous post again and closely. I did not write anything about LSN that you accused me of. In fact, I asked for more information and evidences proving the claims.

Here is what I wrote:

PNewton. I frankly don’t know much about LSN, or whether or not it is legit. In the past, I did read articles from LSN and they were factually correct. You lay some serious/damaging charges on this site. I would really like to know from you more information and evidences proving your claims. If what you said is in fact true, I will no longer trust this site.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Where was God during the Protestant Reformation? Did He not have the power to prevent it if He so wished? The Reformation has had a great influence on American and European History, and I doubt that our world could have gotten to where it is today without it. God willing, it’s now possible that there will be a reborn harmony between Christians. Do not judge negatively, but let us all be guided by God’s bountiful love towards all Christians.

 

[Randolph]

I was specific in my reasoning. The Vatican’s philately is not a life issue by anyone’s definition. Also, the article, whether factually correct or not, does not give any evidence to support what was said. Not just them, but *any *internet site which one goes to for information, should be weighed by their ability to support what they say. Their one supporting link only supports the existence of the Vatican office which issues stamps.

Check out their other links. They have a habit of linking support back to their own articles in an endless circle. I would bet they link themselves more than every one else combined.

PNewton… Below was what you posted. I will let your words about LSN speak for themselves. These were damaging charges against LSN. As I had posted, I read articles from LSN in the past, and their facts were in fact correct. We will know soon enough if this Luther stamp story is in fact true. Until then, you need to substantiate your charges. Otherwise, a retraction or an apology from you should be forthcoming.

It is true that there are lots of fake websites and fake news out there. But there are websites with honest people working very hard to bring real facts to people. They don’t deserved to be treated this way.

Once against LSN shows that the only thing true in its name is that it is a site. It has departed the issue of life to pursue other targets, with a history of anti-catholicism. It lacks any sense of journalism, reporting without references, using exaggeration and rhetoric to keep cutting at the body of Christ.

You people should really pay more attention to what the Church says and not what the enemy says. There is never a shortage of people want to serve the accuser of the brethren. If this last election cycle taught us nothing is that there is a lot of internet news is just back fence gossip.

 

[MorEphrem]

I think this is great - Luther is a figure who inspired so much change in the Church. Hopefully next year there can be an Arius stamp to include the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

 

[pnewton]

PNewton… Below was what you posted. I will let your words about LSN speak for themselves. These were damaging charges against LSN. As I had posted, I read articles from LSN in the past, and their facts were in fact correct. We will know soon enough if this Luther stamp story is in fact true. Until then, you need to substantiate your charges. Otherwise, a retraction or an apology from you should be forthcoming.

No.

I gave specifics the second time. Most of their links to evidence are links to themselves. This article did not contain evidence for anything except the existence of a department in the Vatican that makes stamps. This article is not about abortion, or any other life issue. LSN has attacked the Catholic Church a lot.

I make no apology or retraction for the truth. I also make no apology about my opinion that that they are not a reliable source of information.