"Vatican to Issue Stamp Featuring Martin Luther"

[Randolph]

No.

I gave specifics the second time. Most of their links to evidence are links to themselves. This article did not contain evidence for anything except the existence of a department in the Vatican that makes stamps. This article is not about abortion, or any other life issue. LSN has attacked the Catholic Church a lot.

I make no apology or retraction for the truth. I also make no apology about my opinion that that they are not a reliable source of information.

I am looking forward to you telling the “truth”’ which you would “make no apology or retraction.”

Then, substantiate your claims that LSN: (please be specific)

1. Has a “history of anti-Catholicism”;
2. Lacks “any sense of journalism”;
3. Reports “without any references”;
4. Uses “exaggeration and rhetoric to keep cutting at the body of Christ”; and
5. Has “attacked the Catholic Church a lot.”

Furthermore, show me evidence of the “links” you are talking about that show their lack of journalistic sense. What actually do the links prove? As for the Luther stamp story, we will know soon enough if it is true. If it turns out to be false, then yes you (and I) would be right in criticizing them. Lastly, I have read articles on LSN about things happening in the Church other than abortion/life related issues. LSN does not restrict itself to just reporting on abortion/life issues.

For purposes of disclosure and transparency, I have no stake in, or have any relationship with LSN whatsoever. I just read articles from this site in the past.

 

[pnewton]

I am looking forward to you telling the “truth”’ which you would “make no apology or retraction.”
.

If you are implying I am a liar, you should move on. I am done with this. I know what I have read on this website. I gave you my experience and several particulars that anyone else could see for themselves.

 

[abucs]

I think this is a mistake and i do not support it. As Catholics we should stand for the truth and the truth is that Luther was bad not only for the church but society at large and those negative reverberations are still being felt even today.

 

[JPUSC]

"It is a horrible and frightful thing that the ruler of Christendom, who boasts himself vicar of Christ and successor of St. Peter, lives in such worldly splendor that in this regard no king nor emperor can equal or approach him, and that he who claims the title of “most holy” and “most spiritual” is more worldly than the world itself. H wears a triple crown, when the greatest kings wear but a single crown; if that is like the poverty of Christ and of St. Peter, then it is a new kind of likeness. When a word is said against it, they cry out “Heresy!”…

I do not now complain that at Rome God’s command and Christian law are despised; for such is the state of Christendom, and particularly of Rome, that we may not now complain of such high matters. Nor do I complain that natural or temporal law and reason count for nothing. The case is worse even than that. I complain that they do not keep their own self-devised canon law, though it is, to be sure, mere tyranny, avarice and temporal splendor, rather than law. Let us see!..

They lie and deceive, make laws and make agreements with us, and they do not intend to keep any of them. All this must be counted the work of Christ and St. Peter! Now, in this matter the German nation, bishops and princes, should consider that they too are Christians, and should protect the people, whom they are set to rule and guard in things temporal and spiritual, against these ravening wolves who, in sheep’s clothing, pretend to be shepherds and rulers…"

An Open Letter to The Christian Nobility
by Martin Luther (1483-1546)

iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/web/nblty-04.html

"…For with what right am I deprived of my liberty by another’s superstition and ignorance? If the pope grants a dispensation, for money, why should not I, for my soul’s salvation, grant a dispensation to myself or to my brother? Does the pope set up laws? Let him set them up for himself, and keep hands off my liberty; else I will take it by stealth!..

6.26 As to divorce, it is still a moot question whether it be allowable. For my part I so greatly detest divorce that I should prefer bigamy to it, but whether it be allowable, I do not venture to decide. Christ Himself, the Chief Pastor, says in Matthew 5:32, “Whosoever shall put away his wife, Matthew excepting for the cause of fornication, maketh her commit adultery; and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.” Christ, then, permits divorce, but for the cause of fornication only. The pope must, therefore, be in error whenever he grants a divorce for any other cause, and no one should feel safe who has obtained a dispensation by this temerity (not authority) of the pope. Yet it is a still greater wonder to me, why they compel a man to remain, unmarried after bring separated from his wife, and why they will not permit him to remarry. For if Christ pennies divorce for the cause, of fornication and compels no one to remain unmarried, and if Paul would rather have one marry than burn, (1 Corinthians 7:9) then He certainly seems to permit a man to marry another woman in the stead of the one who has been put away. Would to God this matter were thoroughly threshed out and derided, so that counsel might be given in the infinite perils of those who, without any fault of their own, are nowadays compelled to remain unmarried, that is, of those whose wives or husbands have run away and deserted them, to come back perhaps after ten years, perhaps never. This matter troubles and distresses me; I meet cases of it every day, whether it happen by the special malice of Satan or because of our neglect of the word of God."

The Babylonian Captivity of the Church
by Martin Luther

lutherdansk.dk/Web-babylonian%20Captivitate/Martin%20Luther.htm#_Toc58730610

Well, well, well. Sold! I’ll take a box of these stamps!

 

[JPUSC]

"It is a horrible and frightful thing that the ruler of Christendom, who boasts himself vicar of Christ and successor of St. Peter, lives in such worldly splendor that in this regard no king nor emperor can equal or approach him, and that he who claims the title of “most holy” and “most spiritual” is more worldly than the world itself. H wears a triple crown, when the greatest kings wear but a single crown; if that is like the poverty of Christ and of St. Peter, then it is a new kind of likeness. When a word is said against it, they cry out “Heresy!”…

I do not now complain that at Rome God’s command and Christian law are despised; for such is the state of Christendom, and particularly of Rome, that we may not now complain of such high matters. Nor do I complain that natural or temporal law and reason count for nothing. The case is worse even than that. I complain that they do not keep their own self-devised canon law, though it is, to be sure, mere tyranny, avarice and temporal splendor, rather than law. Let us see!..

They lie and deceive, make laws and make agreements with us, and they do not intend to keep any of them. All this must be counted the work of Christ and St. Peter! Now, in this matter the German nation, bishops and princes, should consider that they too are Christians, and should protect the people, whom they are set to rule and guard in things temporal and spiritual, against these ravening wolves who, in sheep’s clothing, pretend to be shepherds and rulers…"

An Open Letter to The Christian Nobility
by Martin Luther (1483-1546)

iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/web/nblty-04.html

"…For with what right am I deprived of my liberty by another’s superstition and ignorance? If the pope grants a dispensation, for money, why should not I, for my soul’s salvation, grant a dispensation to myself or to my brother? Does the pope set up laws? Let him set them up for himself, and keep hands off my liberty; else I will take it by stealth!..

6.26 As to divorce, it is still a moot question whether it be allowable. For my part I so greatly detest divorce that I should prefer bigamy to it, but whether it be allowable, I do not venture to decide. Christ Himself, the Chief Pastor, says in Matthew 5:32, “Whosoever shall put away his wife, Matthew excepting for the cause of fornication, maketh her commit adultery; and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.” Christ, then, permits divorce, but for the cause of fornication only. The pope must, therefore, be in error whenever he grants a divorce for any other cause, and no one should feel safe who has obtained a dispensation by this temerity (not authority) of the pope. Yet it is a still greater wonder to me, why they compel a man to remain, unmarried after bring separated from his wife, and why they will not permit him to remarry. For if Christ pennies divorce for the cause, of fornication and compels no one to remain unmarried, and if Paul would rather have one marry than burn, (1 Corinthians 7:9) then He certainly seems to permit a man to marry another woman in the stead of the one who has been put away. Would to God this matter were thoroughly threshed out and derided, so that counsel might be given in the infinite perils of those who, without any fault of their own, are nowadays compelled to remain unmarried, that is, of those whose wives or husbands have run away and deserted them, to come back perhaps after ten years, perhaps never. This matter troubles and distresses me; I meet cases of it every day, whether it happen by the special malice of Satan or because of our neglect of the word of God."

The Babylonian Captivity of the Church
by Martin Luther

lutherdansk.dk/Web-babylonian%20Captivitate/Martin%20Luther.htm#_Toc58730610

Well, well, well. Sold! I’ll take a box of these stamps!

 

[Randolph]

If you are implying I am a liar, you should move on. I am done with this. I know what I have read on this website. I gave you my experience and several particulars that anyone else could see for themselves.

I did no such thing. You came up with the implication by yourself. I will now move on.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I think this is a mistake and i do not support it. As Catholics we should stand for the truth and the truth is that Luther was bad not only for the church but society at large and those negative reverberations are still being felt even today.

We do stand for truth and the truth is, Martin Luther saw a corrupt Church when he visited Rome and saw people paying for an indulgence to avoid purgatory, while the Pope rode on a white horse while wearing a knight’s suit of gold plated armor.

Luther had no intention of leaving the Catholic Church and starting a new religion. This only happened as the Pope excommunicated him.

Today, the past two Popes and our present Pope, have a better understanding of the mindset of the time of Luther. They also have the Gospel of Jesus to follow and being united if only in spirit with the Lutherans is following the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The divisions for the most part, are man made and not what Jesus intended.

Jim

 

[Wandile]

We do stand for truth and the truth is, Martin Luther saw a corrupt Church when he visited Rome and saw people paying for an indulgence to avoid purgatory, while the Pope rode on a white horse while wearing a knight’s suit of gold plated armor.

Luther had no intention of leaving the Catholic Church and starting a new religion. This only happened as the Pope excommunicated him.

Today, the past two Popes and our present Pope, have a better understanding of the mindset of the time of Luther. They also have the Gospel of Jesus to follow and being united if only in spirit with the Lutherans is following the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The divisions for the most part, are man made and not what Jesus intended.

Jim

Luther was a schismatic and heretic. An enemy of Christ.

If he didn’t want to divide the church then why did he not recant within the time allocated before the excommunication took effect and attend the council of Trent? Why did he start teaching new doctrines?

Luther is not an example to look up to. St Francis saw a problem with the church and was literally called by God to rebuild his church. So why are we commemorating this heretic when we have a saint already called St Francis who is perfectly Catholic and reformed the church through his order from within?

 

[Don_Ruggero]

While I am delighted that the Vatican Post Office has issued a stamp to commemorate the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, I am far happier:

• For all the progress made in a new outlook on ecumenism since Unitatis Redintegratio – more than fifty years ago.
• That our celebration of the 500th anniversary of the birth of Martin Luther included proclamations by Pope Saint John Paul II, including the proclamation of Martin Luther – in 1983, but the news seems still not to have reached the Catholic Answers Forum – that we as Catholics acclaim Martin Luther as “Witness of the Gospel.”
• That Pope Benedict made a pilgrimage commemorating Martin Luther when he was in Erfurt in 2011…where he delivered a most memorable text on Catholic-Lutheran relations, that seems also not have been assimilated by persons on this thread.
• That the joint commemoration of the 500th anniversary of the Reformation – the planning for which began in earnest during Pope Benedict’s visit to Germany in 2005 – is well underway, thanks to Pope Francis and to PCPCU. It sees Catholic bishops and priests around the world co-presiding with Lutheran Clerics in a commemorative liturgy for the 500th anniversary.
• That we are blessed to have the document *From Conflict to Communion *and by the document of the American Bishops, Declaration on the Way and that these will carry us all forward.

I am grateful for what the Popes have done. The Council Fathers have done. The Cardinals have done. The Bishops have done. And what my brother priests have done. That there are some fraction of lay people who either do not know or do not care is too bad for them…but thankfully, the hierarchy is moving forward – and that is what matters for the Church.

 

[EIF5A]

What exactly are we commemorating and what’s the goal/purpose of this? Bringing Lutherans back to the Church? Uniting all Christians eventually?

 

[Randolph]

What exactly are we commemorating and what’s the goal/purpose of this? Bringing Lutherans back to the Church? Uniting all Christians eventually?

Good questions…

I trust and have faith in Pope St John Paul and Pope Benedict XVI.–such great popes. They rightly and often emphasized dialogues over disputes. Given what Martin Luther did and believed as a heretic, and the subsequent damages caused by the Reformation, I wish I could hear from Fr. Benedict what his thoughts are on this issue.

An aside note, it’s quite comical that certain posters only call on JPII and Benedict XVI when it’s convenient for them to use these two great popes to make their case. But when it comes to their teachings on doctrinal matters on indissolubility of marriage and couples in irregular situation receiving communion, these posters went absolutely silent on what these popes taught.

 

[EIF5A]

Good questions…

I trust and have faith in Pope St John Paul and Pope Benedict XVI.–such great popes. They rightly and often emphasized dialogues over disputes. Given what Martin Luther did and believed as a heretic, and the subsequent damages caused by the Reformation, I wish I could hear from Fr. Benedict what his thoughts are on this issue.

An aside note, it’s quite comical that certain posters only call on JPII and Benedict XVI when it’s convenient for them to use these two great popes to make their case. But when it comes to their teachings on doctrinal matters on indissolubility of marriage and couples in irregular situation receiving communion, these posters went absolutely silent on what these popes taught.

I wonder if this doesn’t just give the impression that -as long as you’re Christian, it doesn’t matter-…

If we’re celebrating, can we at least get a list of what Luther accomplished so that we can separate those from his…later developments?

 

[pnewton]

What exactly are we commemorating and what’s the goal/purpose of this? Bringing Lutherans back to the Church? Uniting all Christians eventually?

What is being claimed is that there is a stamp marking the 500 year anniversary of the Reformation. Why? Because it is a major historical event.

 

[EIF5A]

What is being claimed is that there is a stamp marking the 500 year anniversary of the Reformation. Why? Because it is a major historical event.

So was the fall of Constantinople…not exactly something to commemorate…

The Reformation brought upon separation of the Church and propagation of heresy.

What am I missing here?

 

[Ginny89]

So was the fall of Constantinople…not exactly something to commemorate…

The Reformation brought upon separation of the Church and propagation of heresy.

What am I missing here?

Celebrating the breakup of the church does seem bizzarre at best.

 

[pnewton]

So was the fall of Constantinople…not exactly something to commemorate…

The Reformation brought upon separation of the Church and propagation of heresy.

What am I missing here?

Would you object to a stamp commemorating the Twin Towers? What about a Civil War stamp?

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Celebrating the breakup of the church does seem bizzarre at best.

Have you even bothered to read From Conflict to Communion?

I regularly read critiques of people here who cannot seem to even be bothered to read the work of the dicasteries. It is, frankly, disgusting to me.

Which dicastery do you follow, on a regular basis, as a Catholic?

 

[Ginny89]

Have you even bothered to read From Conflict to Communion?

I regularly read critiques of people here who cannot seem to even be bothered to read the work of the dicasteries. It is, frankly, disgusting to me.

Which dicastery do you follow, on a regular basis, as a Catholic?

What’s that got to do with my point?

 

[EIF5A]

Would you object to a stamp commemorating the Twin Towers? What about a Civil War stamp?

9/11 is a national tragedy to remember; there will never be an Osama Bin Laden stamp, however.

The Union won the Civil War. And many people died in the process.

Furthermore, these are earthly affairs, and stamps are issued by a civil government.

The Vatican is the spiritual center of all Catholics. I just don’t know what the purpose of the alleged stamp is.

How can we pray to end heresy and bring unity to all Christians while we “honor” the memory of Martin Luther? He started out wanting to rid of corruption, but later, things didn’t turn out so well.

 

[TertiumQuid]

Have you even bothered to read From Conflict to Communion?

I regularly read critiques of people here who cannot seem to even be bothered to read the work of the dicasteries. It is, frankly, disgusting to me.

Which dicastery do you follow, on a regular basis, as a Catholic?

Don,

Here’s a question from an outsider (I am not Catholic)-

Is there any sort of infallible statement from the magisterium that binds all Catholics in regard to Luther and the Reformation? If not, why should it ultimately matter “Which dicastery” is followed? Until such defined statements, are not individuals Catholics allowed to have different opinions on non-infallibly defined issues?