Given the sensational title of this article, I would have thought that the Vatican was turning a bishop over for arrest (if not execution). Let’s not give in to rampant speculation. The reported facts don’t show that anything untoward has taken place.
Clearly, that is your bent.What issue have I mentioned I have with the Vietnamese bishop? I referred to him as a saint. I was critical of the Church for apparently pushing him aside for political considerations.
Its not my impulse to kick the Church when the secular press reports something either truthfully or not. I do not particularly care for the secular press at all but in this instance I am inclined to agree with them.
OK you are starting to make this a personal confrontation and attack.You are apparently “afraid to say” nothing and you seem
to be a mindless follower of those who deride and insult the Church!
I don’t agree with that thinking especially when the Church often makes huge mistakes.I quite agree -
and until the Church has spoken about this, there is no news!
You quickly jumped on board with a secular statement that saysWhat issue have I mentioned I have with the Vietnamese bishop? I referred to him as a saint. I was critical of the Church for apparently pushing him aside for political considerations.
I’ll remember to pray for you.OK you are starting to make this a personal confrontation and attack.
I don’t agree with that thinking especially when the Church often makes huge mistakes.
I make one criticism and all of sudden I am somehow making the Church the scapegoat of everything. You are getting a little too worked up and defensive. You don’t even know me. You refer to other posts I have made but won’t mentioned what else I have said that brings you to such conclusions.Clearly, that is your bent.
If you don’t realize your outspoken negativity about the Church, perhaps you’ll consider it.
Meanwhile, it’s clear to me that you have found a scapegoat - it’s Holy Mother Church.
If you don’t seem to realize how scandalous your words are, then I pity you.
peaceI’ll remember to pray for you.
There is really nothing else to say to you.
Your Post, Post # 2.I make one criticism and all of sudden I am somehow making the Church the scapegoat of everything. You are getting a little too worked up and defensive. You don’t even know me. You refer to other posts I have made but won’t mentioned what else I have said that brings you to such conclusions.
You really don’t know me enough to make such accusations yet criticize me for making accusations you believe unfounded.
Peace to you too …peace
peace, i think you simply misunderstand my intentions.
**Your “intentions” are unknown to me.
Yet your WORDS? Very clear to all -
you said **“the Church is helping to crucify its own saints.”
How condemnatory is that?
Is there a redeeming virtue in those words?
If so, it’s hidden to me.
I do love the Holy Father and Church, if I didn’t I would not be in it. I just get frustrated with it from time to time.
I can’t begin to relate to your analogy.I just think we view things from different perspectives. Your are very loving and protective of the Church which is admirable, it is innocent love in my view though.
I am much more cynical, I have seen the Church make many mistakes in my lifetime and know through history many of its errors as well. Many bishops, priests, and even some popes have done horrible things. In our modern society the Church is very corrupted from within. There is absolutely no reason that I can see to completely trust without question what a leader in the Church does, it would be naive in my view.
You can both support the Holy Church and the Holy Father and still wage war against the evil inside it.
To put it in a analogy, it would be destructive to be obedient to Darth Vader or Palpatine because they were also priests of the “force.” They are the Jedi knights that have gone bad and need to be defeated. Maybe not a perfect analogy but it somewhat reflects my position.
I am not saying the Holy Father is a Sith Lord by the way, I am just saying that some in the Church are.
Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.Your negative attitude speaks to me of “superiority” and it does NOT speak of humble love.
so you’re pot and anthonythe great is kettle?Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.
- Marty Lund
You do recognize that your knee-jerk response isIt is just an analogy, I am not confusing fantasy with reality. Just the basics of good and evil that do exist in the Church and everywhere else. Do you deny the existence of evil in the Church?
There is much good in the Church and there is also much bad, I am loyal to the good and am obedient in things that I am supposed to, I if I am not then I go to confession.
I am unaware of any official doctrine of the Church that teaches us to be obedient without question to every act or actor of the Church, especially in matters of political decisions and personal opinions, and especially immoral actions.
I am indeed humble to the righteous authorities when they are righteous and lawful actions.
Being humble does mean we have to be deliberately blind. And while we indeed should be humble to the institution of the Church, and the faith and morals taught, that does not necessarily translate to every leader within it or all of its actions.