Vatican's commission completes investigation on Medjugorje, submits report [CC]

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DaddyGirl said:
Is Mary’s “real presence” also in church with the eucharist?
I think it is only supposed to be Jesus, right?
I imagine people who want to be in Jesus “real presence” would also want to be with Mary, too…after all, she’s the mother.
People know they can be “with” Jesus every Sunday, but it is not often that they can be with Mary in a “real presence” way…so if there is a chance to do so, many will go to great lengths to go to that place.

I wonder if more women than men want to go be with Mary.

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Our Lady always points us to Jesus, not herself. For we are worship God. Mary is not present in Mass like Jesus is.
 
JamesCaruso said:
Mary would be disappointed if her appearances at Fatima, Lourdes and other places were ignored by people who said they were not interested because the Blessed Virgin could add nothing to their ordinary faith and the teaching of the Church. Mary is not trying to attract miracle chasers, but wishes to address a world that is in great need of spiritual guidance and encouragement. If you believe in what you have not seen, then believe in her apparitions, the ones already approved by the Church. It is not sinful, crazy, lacking faith, nor is it a sense of the day-to-day faith being boring that makes these apparitions, or alleged apparitions exciting, it is the chance that heaven is trying to speak to us in a special way for our day and the special challenges we face.

I am not promoting Medjugorje, only saying that we should keep an open mind, realizing that Our Lady has appeared on many occasions over the past two centuries, or at least the Church has said that those alleged appearances are worthy of belief. If heaven is speaking I don’t want to be guilty of not listening. IMHO, there is something wrong with a faith that deliberately ignores the possibility that God is speaking anew to this day and age. This in no way impugns the sufficiency of Church teaching.
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I doubt Our Lady would feel disappointed by Catholics who truly adore her Son.
 
ringil said:
There will always be the “miracle chasers”.

For them it is a hobby.

Belief in the ordinary faith and teaching of the Church isn’t enough for some. They seek the fantastical, the dramatic. I can sympathize with some of this sentiment as following our faith day-to-day can get hum-drum.

But the Lord asks us to believe in what we have not seen.
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This is very true. I know some Catholics who are obsessed with alleged apparitions. Not only that, I have found that those whom I know that are believers in this particular one are always looking for hidden signs and meanings in almost everything, and they are highly emotional.
 
Please remember to charitably discuss the news, not other members and not other Catholics
 
irishpatrick said:
The Risen Lord is Present in the Eucharist…how would the world look if all Catholics believed that fact?
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Certainly you are not suggesting that she was wrong in appearing at Fatima, Lourdes and all the other approved apparitions throughout the world in this last 100 years or so.

If you are suggesting that not all Catholics believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist, you are right. The apparitions can only serve to bring more Catholics to believe in this essential element of the Catholic Faith. Now, if every Catholic did believe in the Real Presence, we would still have the rest of the world that does not.

I just talked with a Japanese lady who was drawn to the site of alleged apparitions while she was still an atheist. She told me that in Japan, nobody (in general) believes in God. But there was something that drew her. She converted after that trip and has been a very devout practicing Catholic ever since. I know it’s anecdotal, but in her case, apparitions played a critical role in her conversion.
 
irishpatrick said:
So many thousands, perhaps millions over time, will want to go to the site for any number of reasons. I suppose what confuses me is that a much larger event is in place in every Catholic parish, and that is the Lord’s Real Presence in the Eucharist. People who go to adoration are adoring and praying to our Risen Lord present in those churches.

What confuses me–and I have a great love for Our Lady–is why so many Catholics will spend so much time, and treasure, going to various apparition sites, yet the undeniably Real Presence is within a short distance from their own homes.
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Probably for the same reasons that millions and millions of Catholics/Christians spend time and treasure traveling to the Holy Land to visit the sacred areas where our Lord lived and died. Obviously He’s no longer physically there anymore but the area has very special meaning for our faith. I think apparition sites are no different.

I also think it’s uncharitable to assume that faithful Catholics who travel to certain apparition sites are forgetting the miracle that takes place at Mass or that it’s not important/sacred to them.
 
masondoggy said:
I also think it’s uncharitable to assume that faithful Catholics who travel to certain apparition sites are forgetting the miracle that takes place at Mass or that it’s not important/sacred to them.
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I know when I went to Medjugorje I attended Mass every day, and so did those who accompanied me. That was the norm. So I don’t see how anyone is forgetting the miracle that takes place at Mass.

Certainly most Catholics believe that Mary has appeared at different times over the past hundred years or so. Naturally, the Church will not approve of any such appearances while they are in progress. It cannot, lest in the end something against the faith is put forth. But Catholics knowing that the Church has supported past appearances of Our Lady, when they hear of a new appearance and if they discern it as real, are anxious to visit Our Lady who has deemed it efficacious to visit us first. It is motivated by love of Our Mother and by a desire to hear her words to us as close to firsthand as possible.
 
JamesCaruso said:
Certainly you are not suggesting that she was wrong in appearing at Fatima, Lourdes and all the other approved apparitions throughout the world in this last 100 years or so.

==> NO, I am not suggesting that at all.

If you are suggesting that not all Catholics believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist, you are right.

==> Surveys reflect that as many as 70% of Catholics do not believe in the Real Presence–a very serious problem, and a sad one too.

The apparitions can only serve to bring more Catholics to believe in this essential element of the Catholic Faith. Now, if every Catholic did believe in the Real Presence, we would still have the rest of the world that does not.

**==> The apparitions have NOT stopped the belief in the Real Presence from dropping to 70% disbelief…perhaps, without the apparitions the disbelief number would be even higher. If 1.2 billion people believed in the Real Presence, and truly adored and prayed to the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, the entire world would change. Remember, Our Lady, who I love very deeply, always wants us to come back to Christ through repentance and love. **

**==> Obviously, Jesus wants Our Lady to make the visits, or they would not have happened, and that alone is enough to hold them in high regard because Jesus is trying to speak to us through His Mother. I am not saying the apparitions should be ignored (not at all)–instead, I am saying that Jesus should not be ignored either, and He is Present in every Catholic church across the globe…Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. It is a daily miracle that happens by the millions EVERY DAY. Each and every day we have access to the same Lord who preached the Sermon on the Mount, and who died for us on the cross–every day Catholics go by Catholic churches without so much as a thought. Sad. **

I just talked with a Japanese lady who was drawn to the site of alleged apparitions while she was still an atheist. She told me that in Japan, nobody (in general) believes in God. But there was something that drew her. She converted after that trip and has been a very devout practicing Catholic ever since. I know it’s anecdotal, but in her case, apparitions played a critical role in her conversion.
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==> No doubt, apparitions are made for a reason and it is always to draw people to Christ and to repentance. I just find it sad that so many millions care so little about the Lord who is Truly Present in the Eucharist…it is God waiting for us in the Blessed Sacrament…it is actually God.
 
masondoggy said:
Probably for the same reasons that millions and millions of Catholics/Christians spend time and treasure traveling to the Holy Land to visit the sacred areas where our Lord lived and died. Obviously He’s no longer physically there anymore but the area has very special meaning for our faith. I think apparition sites are no different.

I also think it’s uncharitable to assume that faithful Catholics who travel to certain apparition sites are forgetting the miracle that takes place at Mass or that it’s not important/sacred to them.
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I cannot speak to any person or even groups of people. I just know that 70% of Catholics do not believe in Real Presence.

People marvel at the thought of Jesus feeding the 5,000 (not including women and children, which means the number was much higher). However, the same sense of wonder and marvel does not seem to exist about the Eucharist, yet Christ feeds hundreds of millions through His Church every week, across the globe…and He feeds them with His own Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.

Private revelations are important, yet no Catholic is bound to believe them. However, all Catholics are bound to believe in the Real Presence, yet 70% do not believe. My main point is not to denigrate apparitions (I love Our Lady and would not do that, ever); rather, I am trying to say that an enormous miracle and gift happens every day across the world and we Catholics (along with the Lord’s Church) need to get the word out. Imagine a world in which 90% of all Catholics believed in the Real Presence. Imagine how many problems would be solved, how many conversions from other faiths would happen, how fewer conflict and wars there’d be, etc. If nearly one-fifth of the planet’s population believe in the Real Presence…everything would change.
 
masondoggy and JamesCaruso,

I do not want my posts to be misunderstood, for I truly do love Our Lady; therefore, I will exit now.

Thanks much for the chat. 🙂
 
irishpatrick said:
masondoggy and JamesCaruso,

I do not want my posts to be misunderstood, for I truly do love Our Lady; therefore, I will exit now.

Thanks much for the chat. 🙂
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No need to exit. It’s only discussion. No hurt feelings. With discussion, hopefully we all obtain a broader perspective and learn from the other person’s point of view, and learn to respect the other person’s point of view, as well. Maybe I never thought of your point of view, and maybe you never thought of my point of view. Now they’re both out in the open and we and others can evaluate them. The whole point is to see things as clearly as possible. I think we’re all better off for having participated in discussion. If it’s a matter of I’m right and you’re wrong, then we have a problem, but I don’t think we have this here. I’m on my way to a retreat in a few minutes, so I don’t know if I’ll be able to get here to post this weekend. Thanks for joining us, irishpatrick.
 
Don’t understand how a final decision can be made when the apparitions are still ongoing.
 
blaskoman said:
Don’t understand how a final decision can be made when the apparitions are still ongoing.
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They will NOT give a FINAL decision , but they could give an approval as a prayer shrine without actually ruling on the apparition, or they could choose to say nothing. It’s their call, as it should be. Wish everyone could understand this .
 
Am i seeing things ? A discussion at CAF about a CAF-banned topic ?!!!
Has something changed ? For the better ! 😉

I like all the comments about the Real Presence being so close to each of us where we are, that is so true, and no one took a harder line on that than I did back in 2005 when my dear wife wanted to go to Med… (still afraid to say it ‘out loud’ here because of past CAF experiences doing so)

Anyway, through a very interesting and oddly connected chain of events, I did end up there in 2005. I did plenty of research before the trip and I had my own strongly negative opinion of it before we left…Long story short i was a very unhappy camper for the 1st 3 days there, all wrapped up in my anger at being dragged there just to keep my spouse happy.
On the 4th day the priest who went with us asked if i had been to confession yet.
I said “No, i will go to our own priest when i get back home, this whole thing of chasing “apparitions” halfway around the world is rediculous. We have all the Sacraments right at home so why did i have to come here, etc, etc, etc.”

Well, he listened, and then he ORDERED me to go to confession that day. So i went, and pretty much told my confessor the same story. His response was that the Church will never require anyone to believe in any private revelation, but why don’t you just try opening your heart a little bit while you are here…

I went out of there and did the small pennace he asked. In that pennace, God made it very clear to me that He was in charge and could enter my life in a very real way.
The rest of my story would take hours to tell, and is ongoing. Suffice to say that there is No Corner of my life that is as it was before that trip. Sometimes God needs to use a 2x4 to get our attention. What I can tell you is my life from a daily hell to a daily JOY, overnight.
Thanks to His infinite, patient, Mercy. It was a long twisted path for me, but the shocker was that on that path i met this lady, who i as a protestant had never known at all, and even as a catholic i had absolutely no relationship with, and she led me in a very profoundly real way to the foot of her Son.
Yes, I am a convert to the RCC. But my REAL conversion began on that day in 2005. I do not tell my story to many, but strangely to me, i have found that fellow Catholics have been some of the least receptive to my experience. Wondering why, i dug a bit deeper into the earlier research i did which formed my negative opinions of Med… What i found on the second look at those sources was this-
Most of the strongest Med.detractors have never even been there !

So lets wait and see what Holy Mother Church decides. Our Lady has every confidence that the RCC is still guided by the Holy Spirit.

And BTW, none of us can understand exactly how Jesus is with us in the Real Presence because it is a mystical event beyond our comprehension. Likewise we cannot say how Our Lady is present either-of course not in the physical way that Jesus is there thru the Consecration, but she is there nonetheless, at every Holy Mass, and always when the faithful are adoring her Son. And she remains with Him at the foot of the Tabernacle because of their bond of perfect love. All this happens, in every RCC, every day all over the world, by the Grace of God.
 
Bob4BVM said:
Am i seeing things ? A discussion at CAF about a CAF-banned topic ?!!!
Has something changed ? For the better ! 😉
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Nothing has changed - see the moderator’s note in the OP.

The discussion here is to be limited to the actual new story posted. The ban on promoting private revelation is still very much in force (and is one of the very best rules on CAF, IMHO).
 
blaskoman said:
Don’t understand how a final decision can be made when the apparitions are still ongoing.
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Where is that rule written in stone??? The ones in Bayside, NY were condemed even while it was “going on”. It may still be “going on” for all I know. God Bless, Memaw
 
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