vegetaianism and conversion?

[henrikhank]

Christianity does not disapprove of a person choosing to be a vegetarian. Many great saints were vegetarian. Carthusian monks are vegetarian.

As far as I undestand Carthusians sometimes eat fish and are therefore not vegetarians all the time.

Catholics say eat whatever you want to eat.

some people would like to eat humans so they should just slaughter, eat and be happy??

 

[maryjk]

As far as I undestand Carthusians sometimes eat fish and are therefore not vegetarians all the time.

some people would like to eat humans so they should just slaughter, eat and be happy??

There is a difference between humans and animals. Humans are made in God’s image and have a soul. Animals were not and do not.

 

[Filii_Dei]

My understanding is the D3 is not a vitamin after all but, is a hormone. Interesting.

There is no specific chemical definition of a vitamin. It is simply a certain organic compound that the body absolutely requires but in small amounts. Hence, vitamin D3 can be a vitamin and a prohormone (note: not a hormone per se).

 

[grandfather]

As far as I undestand Carthusians sometimes eat fish and are therefore not vegetarians all the time.

some people would like to eat humans so they should just slaughter, eat and be happy??

I have a friend who became a Carthusian. He did not last for health reasons, only stayed a year. He was in the monastery in Vermont. He said they ate one evegetarian meal per day.

As far as the comment on cannibalism, don’t be silly.

 

[Sufjon]

Vegetarian food tastes better? Who are you kidding? Tofu is disgusting. One can only eat so many whole grains, beans, and rice.

I like barbecue and grilled meats. Burgers, ribs, chops, roasts, and hard salami. Stews, soups, and roast beef sandwiches. Steak. Good stuff!

Who is advocating eating human meat? That would be murder. Killing animals for food is not murder. Animals are not equal to humans, despite what misguided Peta would like us to believe.

As for Lent, just Ash Wednesdays and Fridays are meatless. And for fasting, that would be Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, not every day of Lent.

I think that cat looks tasty, and a lot less intelligent than a pig. What’s it’s name?

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

Vegetarian food tastes better? Who are you kidding? Tofu is disgusting. One can only eat so many whole grains, beans, and rice.

I like barbecue and grilled meats. Burgers, ribs, chops, roasts, and hard salami. Stews, soups, and roast beef sandwiches. Steak. Good stuff!

Hi Catholic90. I am interested in your opinion on something that has puzzled me for a long time when it comes to the question of eating animals and such. You have noted that someone was trying to kid you by saying vegetarian food was better than meat, although I would maintain that’s a matter of opinion, and of course I have mine and you have yours. Both are valid in the context of taste and personal likes and dislikes. But then I noticed something that intrigued me a good deal. I noticed that your avatar is a picture of a rather plump cat. Can you tell me what makes the cat different than a pig you might have eaten for dinner, (other than the fact that the pig is often regarded as being more intelligent). Specifically, what makes one food and the other a beloved companion? My sense is that one answer people might give is that the animals are here for our pleasure or to serve us in one way or another, so we might chose to eat one and love the other one. I would not argue someone’s choice to believe that or disbelieve that, so let’s put that aside. What I would really be fascinated to know what are the determining factors in deciding which animal gets your care and love and which one gets raised in an industrial food complex to be eaten? Is it that you know one of the animals and never met the other, or is that that one is cuter in someone’s opinion, or is it cultural and a matter of where and when one was raised? Again, please take note that I am not taking sides. I just want to know if you would entertain a good recipe for cat, and if you wouldn’t, then why? According to western thought, neither of them has a soul, so does that cat look tasty, and if it doesn’t, then why?

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[4elise]

You who were a non-Catholic in the past and followed another religion (and therefore ate vegetarian food) did you have any problem with the Catholic view on meat eating when you converted?

What exactly is the ‘Catholic view’ on meat eating?

 

[4elise]

It is tradition for Catholics to not eat meat on Fridays (except for fish). The CCC #41, and other places, tells us to respect all of creation. Therefore, it is entirely appropriate for a Catholic to take the discipline another step, into vegetarianism.

No problem.

And, as you see, Catholics are very diverse.

And… right her on CAF we have a group of more than 500 Catholic vegetarians and vegans!

 

[Filii_Dei]

It is tradition for Catholics to not eat meat on Fridays (except for fish)

…

Therefore, it is entirely appropriate for a Catholic to take the discipline another step, into vegetarianism.

Well, but vegetarians still have to give up something else as penance on Fridays. Will they give up vegetables?

 

[RosalieM]

Well, but vegetarians still have to give up something else as penance on Fridays. Will they give up vegetables?

I thought “abstain” meant no meat and that, as a vegetarian, I don’t even have to think if it’s Wednesday or Friday. I think the penance is throughout Lent and there’s still lots of stuff vegetarians can give up. Snacks, junk food, cutting down on t.v. and computer time, (ouch!), shopping, movies (oh no, not movies!)

 

[grandfather]

Well, but vegetarians still have to give up something else as penance on Fridays. Will they give up vegetables?

A Catholic Irishman faithful to the disciplines of the Church had two brothers. They grew into fine men, Patrick, Seamus, and Michael, and got along very well with one another. Every day they met in the pub to share a pint on their way home to their wives. Two moved away from their home town, one to America and another to London. They agreed that to remember one another they would go every day in their new towns to the local pub and have three glasses of beer, one for themselves and one for each of the other two.

Every day Pat, a quiet man, went to the pub and ordered three pints and sat alone to finish them before heading home. The barkeep and all the patrons knew the three brothers and approved of this tradition the brothers kept.

One day Pat came in and ordered two pints. He sat alone silently, drank the pints and went home. Same thing the next day. It went on for a week. The locals were understandably concerned and finally the barkeep approached Pat to say he was sorry for the loss of one of his brothers.

Pat thanked him, but said his brothers were all fine. The barkeep asked why then did he only order two pints. Pat patiently explained the obvious. He gave up drinking for Lent.

 

[RosalieM]

Hi Catholic90. I am interested in your opinion on something that has puzzled me for a long time when it comes to the question of eating animals and such. You have noted that someone was trying to kid you by saying vegetarian food was better than meat, although I would maintain that’s a matter of opinion, and of course I have mine and you have yours. Both are valid in the context of taste and personal likes and dislikes. But then I noticed something that intrigued me a good deal. I noticed that your avatar is a picture of a rather plump cat. Can you tell me what makes the cat different than a pig you might have eaten for dinner, (other than the fact that the pig is often regarded as being more intelligent). Specifically, what makes one food and the other a beloved companion? My sense is that one answer people might give is that the animals are here for our pleasure or to serve us in one way or another, so we might chose to eat one and love the other one. I would not argue someone’s choice to believe that or disbelieve that, so let’s put that aside. What I would really be fascinated to know what are the determining factors in deciding which animal gets your care and love and which one gets raised in an industrial food complex to be eaten? Is it that you know one of the animals and never met the other, or is that that one is cuter in someone’s opinion, or is it cultural and a matter of where and when one was raised? Again, please take note that I am not taking sides. I just want to know if you would entertain a good recipe for cat, and if you wouldn’t, then why? According to western thought, neither of them has a soul, so does that cat look tasty, and if it doesn’t, then why?

Your friend,
Sufjon

Good points, all! According to Pope John Paul II, animals do have souls, animal souls.
I am a vegetarian and a cat lover.
I’m not sure how exactly “livestock” started. Some say the ritualistic animal sacrifices (burnt offerings) from the Old Testament may have been the start. They say it was also the start of restaurants when the crowds would eat the burnt offerings. As far as I know some people in the world do eat domesticated pets which I find appalling to say the least. I think domesticated animals like cats and dogs give a kind of affection. Cats and dogs have a history of being protectors against rats, vermin and intruders. Dogs can be trained to help invalids live a full life. They can rescue people and find people and things. Some can sniff out disease. Cows, chickens, turkeys and pigs, alas, seem to have no use other than to be eaten by people. Although some people do keep pigs as pets, they are quite intelligent.
I’m sure there’s a lot more to it, this is just my:twocents:

 

[grandfather]

Hi Catholic90. I am interested in your opinion on something that has puzzled me for a long time when it comes to the question of eating animals and such. You have noted that someone was trying to kid you by saying vegetarian food was better than meat, although I would maintain that’s a matter of opinion, and of course I have mine and you have yours. Both are valid in the context of taste and personal likes and dislikes. But then I noticed something that intrigued me a good deal. I noticed that your avatar is a picture of a rather plump cat. Can you tell me what makes the cat different than a pig you might have eaten for dinner, (other than the fact that the pig is often regarded as being more intelligent). Specifically, what makes one food and the other a beloved companion? My sense is that one answer people might give is that the animals are here for our pleasure or to serve us in one way or another, so we might chose to eat one and love the other one. I would not argue someone’s choice to believe that or disbelieve that, so let’s put that aside. What I would really be fascinated to know what are the determining factors in deciding which animal gets your care and love and which one gets raised in an industrial food complex to be eaten? Is it that you know one of the animals and never met the other, or is that that one is cuter in someone’s opinion, or is it cultural and a matter of where and when one was raised? Again, please take note that I am not taking sides. I just want to know if you would entertain a good recipe for cat, and if you wouldn’t, then why? According to western thought, neither of them has a soul, so does that cat look tasty, and if it doesn’t, then why?

Your friend,
Sufjon

Sufjon,
You answer most of your questions. Some of the reasons people eat cattle or pigs or chickens and not their cats or dogs is cultural preference. Most pets are carnivores and most meat on the menu eat grain. A steady diet of dog meat risks vitamin A poisoning, but also carnivores have a very different taste. I once had chickens rasied for the pot who were fed corn and apples. They pecked away at a dead racoon and consumed it entirely. They were not edible as a result.

People keep working animals that turn into pets for various reasons, companionship, help in herding livestock, defense from predators. Cats catch rodents in homes. Usually people share the meat from non-carnivores, whether that is from a herd or hunting with the animals that assist them and with whom they develop bonds from working together.

People become attached to the animals they are close to that they do not eat. I have friends whose children raise lambs or pigs for 4H club projects. They don’t want to eat them, because they developed some affection for them and feel a personal attachment having pampered them daily since they were born. The same animal in a field herd is different. It might be just as cute, but there is no personal connection.

The further away people get from the original reason they kept certain animals that were useful to them, but the only reason they have for keeping pets is to enjoy their company, the more difficult it is to explain or understand why one animal is viewed as a friend and another as a meal.

But it makes perfect sense that if you ride a horse every day, or it pulls your wagon to market that some bond between human and animal develops and we do not like the idea of eating companions even if they might taste good.

Outside my window there are seven deer. I don’t care to shoot them and eat them, because I have plenty to eat and my vegetable garden is fenced. I enjoy looking at them. If my family needed food to eat it would be different. There is also a large flock of turkeys that probably would be very tasty, but I don’t need them, because I have plenty of garden vegetables, locally raised beef, lamb and pork in the freezer along with fish from the ocean and nearby rivers.

I have Catholic and non-Catholic friends who are vegetarians for one reason or another. If they come to our home for a meal I try to accomodate their preferences. The Catholic friends are also flexible, preferring to not eat meat, but if that is what is put in front of them they will eat some to not offend their host. From the beginning of Christianity according to the Apostle Paul some Christians ate meat and others did not. The Church has always left the decision to the individual saying one practice is no better than another spiritually.

That does not stop the debate however, as we see here.

 

[Sufjon]

Good points, all! According to Pope John Paul II, animals do have souls, animal souls.

Hi Rosalie: Thanks for the reply. That’s interesting.

I am a vegetarian and a cat lover.

Me too.

I

'm not sure how exactly “livestock” started. Some say the ritualistic animal sacrifices (burnt offerings) from the Old Testament may have been the start. They say it was also the start of restaurants when the crowds would eat the burnt offerings. As far as I know some people in the world do eat domesticated pets which I find appalling to say the least. I think domesticated animals like cats and dogs give a kind of affection. Cats and dogs have a history of being protectors against rats, vermin and intruders. Dogs can be trained to help invalids live a full life. They can rescue people and find people and things. Some can sniff out disease. Cows, chickens, turkeys and pigs, alas, seem to have no use other than to be eaten by people. Although some people do keep pigs as pets, they are quite intelligent.

So it sounds as though your reasoning is that an animal’s purpose is in large part defined by how they relate to humans, and what particular use humans can assign to them. That’s what I was looking for. I wonder if the nature of the purposes that people find for them in turn help to define us, and perhaps serve as markers for what stage of evolution we have achieved. For instance, might some alien culture assess the development of ours based on things like our ability to reason that an acre of beans yields more protein than an acre of cattle, or judge our spiritual capacity or development based on whether or not we are able to find kind and caring uses for the beings around us, or conversely that we might have created cruel industrial breeding complexes where we brutalize other beings. Evidently we are showing the capacity for both, so they might conclude that we are a work in progress.

I’m sure there’s a lot more to it, this is just my:twocents

And I appreciate it

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[4elise]

Sufjon,
You answer most of your questions. Some of the reasons people eat cattle or pigs or chickens and not their cats or dogs is cultural preference. Most pets are carnivores and most meat on the menu eat grain. A steady diet of dog meat risks vitamin A poisoning, but also carnivores have a very different taste. I once had chickens rasied for the pot who were fed corn and apples. They pecked away at a dead racoon and consumed it entirely. They were not edible as a result.

People keep working animals that turn into pets for various reasons, companionship, help in herding livestock, defense from predators. Cats catch rodents in homes. Usually people share the meat from non-carnivores, whether that is from a herd or hunting with the animals that assist them and with whom they develop bonds from working together.

People become attached to the animals they are close to that they do not eat. I have friends whose children raise lambs or pigs for 4H club projects. They don’t want to eat them, because they developed some affection for them and feel a personal attachment having pampered them daily since they were born. The same animal in a field herd is different. It might be just as cute, but there is no personal connection.

The further away people get from the original reason they kept certain animals that were useful to them, but the only reason they have for keeping pets is to enjoy their company, the more difficult it is to explain or understand why one animal is viewed as a friend and another as a meal.

But it makes perfect sense that if you ride a horse every day, or it pulls your wagon to market that some bond between human and animal develops and we do not like the idea of eating companions even if they might taste good.

Outside my window there are seven deer. I don’t care to shoot them and eat them, because I have plenty to eat and my vegetable garden is fenced. I enjoy looking at them. If my family needed food to eat it would be different. There is also a large flock of turkeys that probably would be very tasty, but I don’t need them, because I have plenty of garden vegetables, locally raised beef, lamb and pork in the freezer along with fish from the ocean and nearby rivers.

I have Catholic and non-Catholic friends who are vegetarians for one reason or another. If they come to our home for a meal I try to accomodate their preferences. The Catholic friends are also flexible, preferring to not eat meat, but if that is what is put in front of them they will eat some to not offend their host. From the beginning of Christianity according to the Apostle Paul some Christians ate meat and others did not. The Church has always left the decision to the individual saying one practice is no better than another spiritually.

That does not stop the debate however, as we see here.

What a wonderful response.

Do you think that we should be concerned about animals raised in what is most commonly called factory farms? Or do you think the individual decision can/should also overlook this issue? (the issue of sustainability, pollution, treatment of animals, the work environment for the people working there, etc…)

God Bless,

 

[Miriam1947]

There are more and more outlets for humanely raised animals.

 

[Jerusha]

Most pets are carnivores and most meat on the menu eat grain. A steady diet of dog meat risks vitamin A poisoning, but also carnivores have a very different taste. I once had chickens rasied for the pot who were fed corn and apples.

Thank you for this information. I always wondered why we refrain from eating the meat of carnivores.

The working conditions and injures at meat-packing houses are horrific!! Those people often trade a relatively few years earning good pay for years of disability.

 

[Christine85]

I personally wish I could be a vegan. Its just very hard work and hard for the health. I don’t think it is a sin for eating meat as I think God gives us that choice, though we are also given the choice to live more compassionately. Even the Holy Father commented on the awfulness of animal cruelty, so I heard. I think I read that too. If I could be a vegan for life even when I want to join a Carmelite order I would probably do it, though I think they live off whatever they can get.

 

[Jerusha]

I’m gonna go eat a hot dog. My first meat for the day.

Vegan is going too far. Cheese and eggs and milk are good!! No animal dies as a result of people eating those foods. Except for the cholesterol-- gotta balance that with fish. Or go with low-fat milk.

 

[Christine85]

yay!! I just found out that the order I hope to join one day does not eat meat!! Yay!! Vegetarianism here I come.