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Trelow
Guest
If the good Lord wanted me to nothing but veggies, He’d a put my eyes on the side of my head.
D
dosdog
Guest
Matthew, Mark, and Luke say that Jesus ate Passover
Lamb Chops !
Lamb Chops !
B
blessedstar
Guest
I think it would be better to look at it from a perspective of ‘excess’. In our western culture we eat meat excessively. This not only has an effect on our own countries, but on others around the world. No longer are we nomadic people that need meat to survive as a staple part of the diet. Not to mention the health risks of eating highly fatty red meat.
Infact our western lifestyle is one of excess fullstop. We don’t think about how we will get water, we simply walk into the kitchen, draw a glass of water and end of problem. That is not the case for other people in the world. In parts of Africa it has not rained for three years! If for some reason the water goes off say due to some burst in a pipe we can’t cope, people are in uproar on the phone to the water company, imagine coping regularly with the lack of water.
We take so much for granted.
It would therefore be sensible to have some intake of meat but to reduce it to a level that is not excessive, such as two or three times a week to eat some red meat and make one of those days a Sunday in celebration of our Lord’s day and the others could be attributed to feast days and days of specific Saints and ask for their intercession for the poor, this way our eating of meat takes on significance.
Infact why not reassess our lives of excess and study where we can cut back and donate that money to Christian Charities that help those less fortunate than ourselves. Do we really need so much technology? Do we really need all those different fashion clothes? Do we really need to purchase endless DVD’s and CD’s? Do we really need to buy so much food with so many varied brands? Do we really have to have such extensive interior furnishings? Do our kids need the latest toys and fashions? Do we need the latest model of car? Do we need more than one car? Do we even need a car? Etc! The list we can examine goes on and on and this surely demonstrates our excessive mindset in the 20th Century.
It is not bad to have possessions, but I think the age of excess has done nothing for us, almost squeezing spirituality out of the forefront of our hearts and minds and what has replaced that is a constant striving to possess. This culture of ‘me’ has ended up where we assess our success by what we own and that is certainly not the message of the Gospel. Jesus owned nothing and is the most ‘successful’ man who ever lived, no other person who has lived has so affected the world as the Person of Christ Jesus. Now this culture of ‘me’ has led to the culture of death, where ‘me’ takes priority over the weakest in society and we are fighting for the right to destroy each other in law courts and even to destroy ourselves!.
I think this approach of assessing and curtailing the excess of our lifestyles not only aids our spiritual journey, but helps those less fortunate than ourselves and this is the culture of life. When we consider what a bit of money can do in poor countries isn’t it really worth making a start to cut back on the excess of this greedy spiral we are falling into deeper and deeper? If meat is given up just a couple of days a week, that money could feed a family in Africa (and in other underdeveloped countries) for the entire month.
Just a bit of ‘food’ for thought!
Infact our western lifestyle is one of excess fullstop. We don’t think about how we will get water, we simply walk into the kitchen, draw a glass of water and end of problem. That is not the case for other people in the world. In parts of Africa it has not rained for three years! If for some reason the water goes off say due to some burst in a pipe we can’t cope, people are in uproar on the phone to the water company, imagine coping regularly with the lack of water.
We take so much for granted.
It would therefore be sensible to have some intake of meat but to reduce it to a level that is not excessive, such as two or three times a week to eat some red meat and make one of those days a Sunday in celebration of our Lord’s day and the others could be attributed to feast days and days of specific Saints and ask for their intercession for the poor, this way our eating of meat takes on significance.
Infact why not reassess our lives of excess and study where we can cut back and donate that money to Christian Charities that help those less fortunate than ourselves. Do we really need so much technology? Do we really need all those different fashion clothes? Do we really need to purchase endless DVD’s and CD’s? Do we really need to buy so much food with so many varied brands? Do we really have to have such extensive interior furnishings? Do our kids need the latest toys and fashions? Do we need the latest model of car? Do we need more than one car? Do we even need a car? Etc! The list we can examine goes on and on and this surely demonstrates our excessive mindset in the 20th Century.
It is not bad to have possessions, but I think the age of excess has done nothing for us, almost squeezing spirituality out of the forefront of our hearts and minds and what has replaced that is a constant striving to possess. This culture of ‘me’ has ended up where we assess our success by what we own and that is certainly not the message of the Gospel. Jesus owned nothing and is the most ‘successful’ man who ever lived, no other person who has lived has so affected the world as the Person of Christ Jesus. Now this culture of ‘me’ has led to the culture of death, where ‘me’ takes priority over the weakest in society and we are fighting for the right to destroy each other in law courts and even to destroy ourselves!.
I think this approach of assessing and curtailing the excess of our lifestyles not only aids our spiritual journey, but helps those less fortunate than ourselves and this is the culture of life. When we consider what a bit of money can do in poor countries isn’t it really worth making a start to cut back on the excess of this greedy spiral we are falling into deeper and deeper? If meat is given up just a couple of days a week, that money could feed a family in Africa (and in other underdeveloped countries) for the entire month.
Just a bit of ‘food’ for thought!
B
blessedstar
Guest
Here is some prose for us all to think a great deal about:
**
One Solitary Life
He was born in an obscure village. He worked in a carpenter shop until he was thirty. He then became an itinerant preacher. He never held an office. He never had a family or owned a house. He didn’t go to college. He had no credentials but himself. Ninteen centuries have come and gone and today he is the central figure of the human race. All armies that ever marched and all navies that ever sailed, all the parliaments that ever sat, and all the kings that ever reigned have not affected the life of man on this earth as much as that one solitary life.**
**
One Solitary Life
He was born in an obscure village. He worked in a carpenter shop until he was thirty. He then became an itinerant preacher. He never held an office. He never had a family or owned a house. He didn’t go to college. He had no credentials but himself. Ninteen centuries have come and gone and today he is the central figure of the human race. All armies that ever marched and all navies that ever sailed, all the parliaments that ever sat, and all the kings that ever reigned have not affected the life of man on this earth as much as that one solitary life.**
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
Actually, it’s the high-carbohydrate diets which are making Americans fat and the type II diabetes epidemic is proof of it.
All the recent studies that have just been released, show that animal fat causes no health risk and fat is necessary for life.
A coworker’s wife was part of the study that was released last year. She was in the group on the low-fat diet. Her group actually gained weight while the group on the fat diet, animal fat that is, lost weight and had better heart health results.
The fat that causes the most harm is trans fat, which is found in just about every processed food on the market, from cookies to pretzels.
A vegetarian diet can be healthy, only if you watch the types of carbs you eat and stay away from trans fats. Otherwise it can be a health risk. I have seen plenty of overweight vegetratians. Just because they’re not eating meat and saturated fats, they think they’re eating healthy, even when they’re eating lost of processed foods.
In all, moderation is best. Eat only whole foods and stay away from processed froods, which God gave us. If God didn’t grow it, don’t eat it. When you shop at the supper market, stay on the outside perimeter, where the fresh meats, veggies, fruits and dairy are. Avoid the center isles where the processed foods are.
Jim
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blessedstar
Guest
So hamburgers, beefburgers and hot dogs are good for you, that’s news to me.
There’s nothing wrong with some red meat in moderation.
Everything in moderation and curtail the excess of our lifestyles. This isn’t just about eating healthily, this is also about the health of our planet and the effect we have on other nations because of western excess.
Thank you for the scientific stuff which no doubt holds lots of merit, but it doesn’t take a scientist to tell us we live in a greedy society.
There’s nothing wrong with some red meat in moderation.
Everything in moderation and curtail the excess of our lifestyles. This isn’t just about eating healthily, this is also about the health of our planet and the effect we have on other nations because of western excess.
Thank you for the scientific stuff which no doubt holds lots of merit, but it doesn’t take a scientist to tell us we live in a greedy society.
B
blessedstar
Guest
And next week there will be a different scientific ‘food’ theory.
It doesn’t take a scientist to tell us we live in a society of excess and greed, so moderation is the key.
B
blessedstar
Guest
Drink too much wine you do yourself no good, eat too many carrots you turn orange, take too much salt you get ill, eat too much red meat and you risk fat build up and intake of anti-biotics and hormones not to mention other chemicals given to cattle and sheep. It doesn’t matter if it is natural or not, God given or man-made. Too much of anything is not a good thing. Take a few carrots and they are good for you, eat a bit of meat and it is good for you, take a little salt and it is good for you, take a little wine and it will do you some good. Too many cream cakes and it’s bad for you but take a little cream cake now and then and it is not a bad thing. There are health risks associated with red meat whch I will provide in my next post.
So all things in moderation and in the process help others while you’re at it.
It stands to reason
Valuable arable land is taken up with intensive cattle farming to meet our excessive demand for meat and by products such as leather and wool. Our excessive western lifestyle affects the entire world, we have a moral duty to the planet and to our brothers and sisters.
So all things in moderation and in the process help others while you’re at it.
It stands to reason
Valuable arable land is taken up with intensive cattle farming to meet our excessive demand for meat and by products such as leather and wool. Our excessive western lifestyle affects the entire world, we have a moral duty to the planet and to our brothers and sisters.
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
This is false information. First off, cattle which are on anti-biotics, can not be slaughtered. Any farmer will tell you. Hormones, no study supports the false information that there is a problem for humans who eat meat from cattle which were given hormones. Even if this were so, it doesn’t mean eating meat is bad, just that giving cattle hormones is. But again, no study supports this myth.
Of course, too much of anything is bad. However, you can’t eat a moderation of processed foods and think it’s OK, it’s not. Trans fats are very bad for you, even in moderate amounts.
Jim
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blessedstar
Guest
Read the links Jim.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10760833&dopt=Abstract
cancer-news-watch.com/2005/10/11/red-meat-intake-linked-to-pancreatic-cancer/
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1585/is_7_23/ai_50039388
sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040916103144.htm
sustainabletable.org/issues/hormones/
organicconsumers.org/toxic/hormone042302.cfm
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0815/is_2001_Nov/ai_79662944
pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/meat/safe/overview.html
Don’t pick a fight with me, pick one with the scientists!
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10760833&dopt=Abstract
cancer-news-watch.com/2005/10/11/red-meat-intake-linked-to-pancreatic-cancer/
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1585/is_7_23/ai_50039388
sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040916103144.htm
sustainabletable.org/issues/hormones/
organicconsumers.org/toxic/hormone042302.cfm
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0815/is_2001_Nov/ai_79662944
pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/meat/safe/overview.html
Don’t pick a fight with me, pick one with the scientists!
C
Catholic90
Guest
I can’t speak of other orders, but Benedictans DO eat beef and pork… Our parish has been staffed by Benedictans, so we have Benedictan priests. They eat lots of beef, pork and other good food!
One priest was famous for hosting his big German meals, complete with sauerbraten, roasts, sauerkraut, pork dishes, etc. Another priest (also Benedictan) is the first in line at our annual pork chop dinner every fall.
The priest who married us, a Benedictan, was invited to our home for dinner shortly after our wedding. I made a big beef roast, complete with carrots, potatoes, gravy, etc., because he said beef roast was his absolute favorite meal, but he hated to cook a whole one because he could never eat it all. So I made one, and he loved it!
Check out St. John’s Abbey (Benedictan monastary) in Collegeville MN. Those priests and monks have no shortage of beef and pork at their dinners,either!
C
Catholic90
Guest
So much of this has to be read with a critical eye. Carefully read the articles.
“…May cause…”
“…has the potential to…”
“…is suspected…”
Learn to read this as
“…May NOT cause…”
“…might not have the potential to…”
“…is innocent until proven guilty…”
A lot of it is junk science.
My dad is a farmer. You absolutely cannot sell an animal for food that is on antibiotics.
It’s more likely the processed **** we eat than the honest to goodness home grown meat and vegetables we eat that cause problems. (coupled with our inactivity!).
B
blessedstar
Guest
It may be the case that animals fed with antibiotic additive foods can not be sold in the US, but it isn’t the case in other countries in the world. I know this is a US based Catholic site, but there are many people on these forums that are not from the US.
The US spent years saying there was no such thing as Global Warming basically because it suits their excessive society to say so, but now they have had to concede that there is such a thing as Global Warming. It would not be necessary to treat animals with any of these additives in their food if mass and excessive farming was not the name of the game. More and more of our ‘natural’ produce is being engineered, pumped full of various preservatives, sprayed with insecticides etc and this is not just for mass production but to meet ridiculous guidelines for how food should ‘look’
I have every respect for farmers and am aware that you say your father is a farmer and it is a hard working job and not a job a person can walk away from, it is a way of life. I am not knocking farmers, they have had to respond to increased demand and have done so using what is at their disposal, who can say anything against them for that? No-one.
On the other hand it cannot be denied we are infact greedy and consume too much in so many ways not only by way of food consumption. There has to be a balance. There has to be moderation or it can and will bottom out.
T
thechrismyster
Guest
scientists also said we’d have 15 to 17 hurricanes this season.
scientists in the 70’s predicted an ice age by the early part of this century.
scientists also have never gotten an embroyonic stem cell to do anything except thumb it’s little cellular nose at them.
scientists have about as much weight in my thinking as the snake oil salesmen from ages past.
they make guesses, and the public falls in line in stunned awe at their scientific genius. not scientists are back rubbers to the corporate funding gods that give them fat paychecks for spiked studies.
Pffffffft to them.
scientists in the 70’s predicted an ice age by the early part of this century.
scientists also have never gotten an embroyonic stem cell to do anything except thumb it’s little cellular nose at them.
scientists have about as much weight in my thinking as the snake oil salesmen from ages past.
they make guesses, and the public falls in line in stunned awe at their scientific genius. not scientists are back rubbers to the corporate funding gods that give them fat paychecks for spiked studies.
Pffffffft to them.
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
The sites you’ve posted are outdated.
Try this one
hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fats.html
BTW, a co-worker’s wife was part of the study they speak about.
Also, a good site on this subjec has always been,
westonaprice.org/splash_2.htm
Jim
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blessedstar
Guest
I honestly can’t be bothered to argue.
If a scientist examines my blood and says I have a disease and need a treatment I don’t ignore him/her.
I take what makes sense and I do something about it, putting a sticking plaster on it myself won’t sort it, I need to follow scientific advice.
Science is not bad, God is the ultimate scientist, He created everything didn’t He?
If I walk along and only look at my own footsteps never taking the time to look up at the bigger picture then I could be forgiven for not taking any action, but seeing as we know certain things about how things work we cannot just look at our own footsteps and think all is well, we must look up and make an effort.
We must develop a world social and moral conscience. The world is showing symptoms of somethign gravely wrong with it, whatever the end results of this problem, whether it be ice or windf or rain or snow or heat, it cannt be denied that it is changing and it’s effects are not myth, they are on the news every night, thousands starving, thousands killed, thousands flooded, thousands in drought.
Meat is just the thin end of the wedge…
We all must give account for our stewardship to God, I personally would not like to account for it by saying ‘Well I liked my lifestyle and all scientists are not to be trusted’.
Common sense everytime and moderation in everything and that is absolutely everything.
If a scientist examines my blood and says I have a disease and need a treatment I don’t ignore him/her.
I take what makes sense and I do something about it, putting a sticking plaster on it myself won’t sort it, I need to follow scientific advice.
Science is not bad, God is the ultimate scientist, He created everything didn’t He?
If I walk along and only look at my own footsteps never taking the time to look up at the bigger picture then I could be forgiven for not taking any action, but seeing as we know certain things about how things work we cannot just look at our own footsteps and think all is well, we must look up and make an effort.
We must develop a world social and moral conscience. The world is showing symptoms of somethign gravely wrong with it, whatever the end results of this problem, whether it be ice or windf or rain or snow or heat, it cannt be denied that it is changing and it’s effects are not myth, they are on the news every night, thousands starving, thousands killed, thousands flooded, thousands in drought.
Meat is just the thin end of the wedge…
We all must give account for our stewardship to God, I personally would not like to account for it by saying ‘Well I liked my lifestyle and all scientists are not to be trusted’.
Common sense everytime and moderation in everything and that is absolutely everything.
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
The Rule of St. Benedict says, " do not eat the flesh of quadrupeds. Most follow it, some don’t.
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blessedstar
Guest
Those sites are not outdated. Just last week on the news those very topics above made the headlines.
We will have to agree to disagree Jim, as usual.
It appears you want to fight with me and have done since the last thread we participated in together and sorry but I’m not going to bite but on the other hand I won’t be replying to anymore of your posts in the interests of keeping the peace.
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
I’m only responding to what you post. If you don’t like my response, perhaps chat boards are not your cup of tea.
Well when I see the dates on the sites you posted going back to 1998, I know they’re outdated.
Fact is, people have been eating meat since Adam and Eve were driven from Eden.
A recent study showed that Native American diets consisted of 80% meat, before the white man forced them into a predominately argricultural style of life.
Then we had the Big Fat Lie, story, which came out in 2002, but has been confirmed by further study.
query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9F04E2D61F3EF934A35754C0A9649C8B63
So don’t be mad a me for posting data which contradicts yours.
Jim
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