Vegetarianism and Perfection?

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I’m only responding to what you post. If you don’t like my response, perhaps chat boards are not your cup of tea.🙂

Well when I see the dates on the sites you posted going back to 1998, I know they’re outdated.

Fact is, people have been eating meat since Adam and Eve were driven from Eden.

A recent study showed that Native American diets consisted of 80% meat, before the white man forced them into a predominately argricultural style of life.

Then we had the Big Fat Lie, story, which came out in 2002, but has been confirmed by further study.

query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9F04E2D61F3EF934A35754C0A9649C8B63

So don’t be mad a me for posting data which contradicts yours.

Jim
I don’t think Adam and Eve nor the Native Americans practised intensive farming.

I enjoy this forum usually.

Please put me on ignore or be so kind as to not respond to my posts and I’ll do likewise for you.
 
I don’t think Adam and Eve nor the Native Americans practised intensive farming.

I enjoy this forum usually.

Please put me on ignore or be so kind as to not respond to my posts and I’ll do likewise for you.
Sorry that my participation is upsetting to you.

Of course you can put me on ignore if you so desire.

However, I don’t place anyone on ignore, because I don’t want to miss what they have to share. There’s always something to learn from everyone’s participation, even those we don’t agree with.

Peace
Jim
 
To the OP,

I also used to conclude from reading that passage in Genesis that they didn’t eat meat until after the fall, but there is an interesting book that I came across called “A Biblical Case for an Old Earth” that discusses this point in detail. Far as I can tell, he isn’t Catholic, but he seems to be well-researched and a clear thinker. His conclusion is that they did in fact eat meat before the fall, and that other animals ate meat before the fall. It has to be so because of another point which the whole book is about, that the earth is indeed very old. It is very unlikely that God created the earth in exactly six days. Animals were probably around for a long time before people ever were created, and in order to survive and reproduce and even die all that time, they had to eat. Food is necessary for life. Plant eating animals ate plants and meat eating animals ate meat. Notice that the scripture passage does not say that Adam and Eve cannot eat meat. If it had been forbidden, God would have made that clear, I believe. Instead, He simply does not expressly mention it. Perhaps it was implied in some way.

Not eating animals is not a sign of perfection, unless you are called to live only on the Eucharist. We should eat what we are created to eat, and we are omnivores. In fact, if we deny ourselves animal fats and animal proteins (but more importantly animal FATS), we will be malnourished, develop tremendous vitamin deficiencies and open ourselves up to all kinds of health problems. Vegetarians often have lots of cavities. I learned that the hard way with my little girl. I was a vegetarian during the time when she was teething. Now the poor thing has a mouth full of fillings. Vitamins A, D and E are fat-soluble vitamins and they do not work well with hydrogenated or rancid plant oils. (Plant oils are almost always rancid, due to their instability and dislike of high heat which is often necessary for processing. This is why it’s important to buy cold-pressed olive oil. Furthermore, they are usually refined, filtered and so on, and this increases the rate at which they become rancid. Lard and bacon fat, butter and cream, beef tallow, the skins and fat of chickens, duck fat and so on—these are all very stable fats that do not go rancid for a long time, nor do they become hydrogenated when you cook with them. Milk products, if unpasteurized, do not spoil; they merely sour. Hence, we have sour cream and yogurt. Butter can be left out on the counter for weeks and it will be fine, albeit a bit sour.) Your body will not absorb them if you are lacking in sufficient amounts of fats. Furthermore, if you include a healthy portion of fat in your diet, you will feel full faster and therefore you will eat less. You will not be snacking all day and you will not have constant cravings, which keeps you far from gluttony. Your body simply says “no thanks, I can’t handle that right now.” Contrast this with popular man made foods that are loaded with all sorts of poisonous ingredients which keep encouraging you to eat more and more simply b/c of the taste (or rather the addictive chemicals therein). The low-fat craze in this country has done nothing but harm. People who try to cut out some or all saturated animal fats from their diet soon find that THEY are the ones with heart disease, cancer, diabetes, constipation and so on. My parents are good examples of this, although they are not vegetarias. They have trusted in margarine and shortening and other “low fat foods” for years and years. How on earth did we come to believe that man made foods such as tofurky and soy cheese and margarine are actually good for us? I’m sure I don’t know. But fallen for it we have. Trust God. Eat the foods that he created for our well-being and health. If he calls you to a more ascetic life such as a religious order that depends on donations from others, or perhaps to live on the Eucharist alone, then by all means obey him, but if he calls you to live a normal life, eat animal foods and live well.

westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html
 
To the OP,

I also used to conclude from reading that passage in Genesis that they didn’t eat meat until after the fall, but there is an interesting book that I came across called “A Biblical Case for an Old Earth” that discusses this point in detail. Far as I can tell, he isn’t Catholic, but he seems to be well-researched and a clear thinker. His conclusion is that they did in fact eat meat before the fall, and that other animals ate meat before the fall. It has to be so because of another point which the whole book is about, that the earth is indeed very old. It is very unlikely that God created the earth in exactly six days. Animals were probably around for a long time before people ever were created, and in order to survive and reproduce and even die all that time, they had to eat. Food is necessary for life. Plant eating animals ate plants and meat eating animals ate meat. Notice that the scripture passage does not say that Adam and Eve cannot eat meat. If it had been forbidden, God would have made that clear, I believe. Instead, He simply does not expressly mention it. Perhaps it was implied in some way.

Not eating animals is not a sign of perfection, unless you are called to live only on the Eucharist. We should eat what we are created to eat, and we are omnivores. In fact, if we deny ourselves animal fats and animal proteins (but more importantly animal FATS), we will be malnourished, develop tremendous vitamin deficiencies and open ourselves up to all kinds of health problems. Vegetarians often have lots of cavities. I learned that the hard way with my little girl. I was a vegetarian during the time when she was teething. Now the poor thing has a mouth full of fillings. Vitamins A, D and E are fat-soluble vitamins and they do not work well with hydrogenated or rancid plant oils. (Plant oils are almost always rancid, due to their instability and dislike of high heat which is often necessary for processing. This is why it’s important to buy cold-pressed olive oil. Furthermore, they are usually refined, filtered and so on, and this increases the rate at which they become rancid. Lard and bacon fat, butter and cream, beef tallow, the skins and fat of chickens, duck fat and so on—these are all very stable fats that do not go rancid for a long time, nor do they become hydrogenated when you cook with them. Milk products, if unpasteurized, do not spoil; they merely sour. Hence, we have sour cream and yogurt. Butter can be left out on the counter for weeks and it will be fine, albeit a bit sour.) Your body will not absorb them if you are lacking in sufficient amounts of fats. Furthermore, if you include a healthy portion of fat in your diet, you will feel full faster and therefore you will eat less. You will not be snacking all day and you will not have constant cravings, which keeps you far from gluttony. Your body simply says “no thanks, I can’t handle that right now.” Contrast this with popular man made foods that are loaded with all sorts of poisonous ingredients which keep encouraging you to eat more and more simply b/c of the taste (or rather the addictive chemicals therein). The low-fat craze in this country has done nothing but harm. People who try to cut out some or all saturated animal fats from their diet soon find that THEY are the ones with heart disease, cancer, diabetes, constipation and so on. My parents are good examples of this, although they are not vegetarias. They have trusted in margarine and shortening and other “low fat foods” for years and years. How on earth did we come to believe that man made foods such as tofurky and soy cheese and margarine are actually good for us? I’m sure I don’t know. But fallen for it we have. Trust God. Eat the foods that he created for our well-being and health. If he calls you to a more ascetic life such as a religious order that depends on donations from others, or perhaps to live on the Eucharist alone, then by all means obey him, but if he calls you to live a normal life, eat animal foods and live well.

westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html
Great post and right on!

God Bless You
Jim
 
According to verse 29, prior to the fall, Adam and Eve were given all the plants to eat as food but no mention was made of eating animals. I am thinking that perhaps it wasn’t until after the fall that men started eating meat. Could it be that our struggle for perfection might be advanced one more step if we abstain completely from meat? And I mean for the right reason, as a discipline, NOT for the usual legalistic or “animals are people too” silliness.

Peace,
+Nathan
It is a discipline, and an old one practiced by many holy people, but not one that all are called to. I suspect, though, that it isn’t spiritually healthy to obsess about it. “Save us, Lord, from all anxiety, as we wait in joyful hope…”

Don’t ask us. Ask God. Then keep listening. You’ll do ok.
 
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