Veiling challenge

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Actually, yes, the Pastor has every right to decide on or how not a liturgical minister can dress.

No one has a “right” to any liturgical ministry.

And this has nothing to do with “liberal” Catholics. It has to do with the wishes of a Pastor for his liturgical ministers. With attitudes like yours, is it any wonder that we have a vocations crisis? :roll_eyes:
 
DignumEtJustum said:
Bottom line is the priest simply has no right to make such a request, especially over something that was a requirement in Canon Law until 1983 (whether practiced or not) and is now optional. The OP can do what she wants in this regard. If he won’t accept a veiled music director, that’s his problem. It doesn’t exactly sound as if the position is no longer available to her if she refuses to not veil and any pastor would be a fool for making an issue out of such a thing. We’re not here to cater to liberal Catholics. They can be the ones to leave the parish if the personal devotions of other parishioners that are traditionally Catholic bother them.
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The notion that a choir or music director can wear the attire she pleases is the liberal notion, not the traditional one. I’m pretty sure that pre-Council, a choir director wouldn’t think of wearing other than the prescribed uniform for the choir. It certainly was probably unlikely that the choir director be a woman, except in a woman’s religious community, so she’d be wearing her community’s habit which would include some form of head covering. Or when there was a laywoman leading, all women in the choir would wear a head covering. Nobody would derogate from what was prescribed.

But the notion that someone fulfilling a Liturgical role doesn’t have to conform to the dress code is most certainly disobedient. And it is disobedience that is the “liberal” view. Obedience is the Traditional one.

In our men’s Gregorian choir, if a chorister doesn’t show up in the prescribed black shirt and black trousers (black sweater allowed in cold weather), he is not allowed to sing with us unless we are singing from a choir loft where we can’t be seen.

The priest most certainly does have the right to impose a dress code for liturgical roles. The choir director does have the right to wear her head covering… if she is not leading the choir. And the priest has the right to replace her if she won’t conform.

In a perfect world though, it shouldn’t come to a confrontation. Alas in our highly individualistic society, we’re very big on demanding our “rights” but not so much on accepting the responsibilities that come with certain functions such as that of a choir director.

Here’s a suggestion : the OP’s wife can arrive a half hour before Mass (or rehearsal before Mass), put on her veil, and spend that time in adoration before the blessed sacrament.

Then take it off to take up her role in the liturgy. Reverence as she feels it should be shown, responsibilities assumed.
 
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I am also one who wears a headcovering. I’m not sure which person said it, but one person made the comment that the veil or the headcovering is very important to those who choose to wear them and they are right. It is very, very important but I have learned there are many ways to cover. There are large headbands, hats, and scarves that one can wear besides the veil. I wear a variety as do several other women in my parish.

It apparently sounds like it is the veil that bothers the priest, which I think is rather sad because it is apparently what the veil represents and I would hope a priest would understand a woman’s right to wear one and encourage it rather than discourage it. If a nun in a habit joined the choir, she would definitely be dressed differently. Would he ask her to wear street clothing so she wouldn’t stand out? Just a thought.

I would suggest she speak to the priest, explain to him how important it is for her to cover and then be willing to compromise and perhaps wear a different headcovering other than the veil.
I suspect he would be okay with that. If not then she has to choose. If God is calling her to wear a headcovering first and foremost, she may have to say no to being a choir director and she can do that respectfully because I do agree that we should obey the priest.
 
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MagdalenaRita said:
It apparently sounds like it is the veil that bothers the priest, which I think is rather sad because it is apparently what the veil represents and I would hope a priest would understand a woman’s right to wear one and encourage it rather than discourage it.
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I think that’s being rather uncharitable towards the priest. A more charitable view would be that uniformity of liturgical attire for the choir is what he is hoping for, not banning the head covering. He would no doubt say the same to a man who insists on wearing a white shirt instead of a black one if black is the choir’s dress code, or insists on not wearing a choir robe if that’s what the parish has chosen for choir attire.
 
I am not being uncharitable toward the priest. I know another woman who was asked not to veil when she read the readings at Mass and the priest that asked her to do this is a very excellent priest. It has nothing to do with the priests character. There just happen to be many in the Church who are bothered by the veil mostly because they do not understand it’s importance to those who wear it and it’s meaning and the priest, himself, coud be someone who doesn’t understand either, which is why I said she should speak to him and if she chooses to be the choir director she needs to obey his request.

IMHO if everyone was asked to wear a white shirt and someone wore a black shirt that is a completely different scenario. Such as if the priest had asked all those in her choir to wear the same clothing that would be different but he didn’t, he is just asking her not to wear an article of devotion that she wears on her head. If he was trying to be uniform he would also need to tell all the women they can’t wear anything on their head, no barrets, headbands or hats.
 
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MagdalenaRita said:
There just happen to be many in the Church who are bothered by the veil mostly because they do not understand it’s importance to those who wear it and it’s meaning and the priest, himself, coud be someone who doesn’t understand either, which is why I said she should speak to him and if she chooses to be the choir director she needs to obey his request.
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You’re again saying that “he doesn’t understand” and “there are many in the Church who are bothered by the veil”.

The OP says the priest is more tradition-minded than their previous priest. He also said:
His reason for this was uniformity. There is only one other woman in the choir who veils of the 7 or 8 regular women members. He also spoke to the 2 women EMHC’s who veil saying the same thing.
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Again, in charity, I would assume that the priest is doing this for the very reason the OP stated, for uniformity. It is a perfectly legitimate liturgical reason, choirs are supposed to be uniform in voice and appearance. I would also assume that he most certainly understands the importance to those who choose to cover their heads. What he is asking for is not unreasonable.

Here’s another suggestion for compromise: I assume that the choir receives communion as well at Mass; ours does. Perhaps she can don her veil for receiving communion, but leave it off for leading the choir. That would seem to me to be a very reasonable ground for compromise that the priest may accept.
 
I don’t think that people considering the priesthood think about things like that.
 
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As someone who feels very strongly convicted to veil I do not believe it is a matter for debate. If your wife feels as I do then whilst she may very much like to take a leading role musically she simply cannot if it means she has to go against her conviction that she should cover.
 
DignumEtJustum said:
You guys always defend the less traditional position; don’t pretend you don’t as you’re just lying to yourselves. This pastor seems to have his mind in the wrong place and I’m glad it isn’t my pastor.
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How can you possibly dare say this to someone who has been singing in a Gregorian schola for 16 years, is a member and past-director of the Gregorian Institute of Canada, and is a Bendictine oblate of a monastery of the Solesmes Congregation?

I am certainly not defending the “less traditional” position musically. And as a Benedictine, I was taught to place a very high value on obedience and deference especially to clergy. That is most certainly a traditional Benedictine value.
 
Clearly my comment is a plural generalization despite it being in the response to you. Also you and I butt heads on certain things probably as much as I would with my personal Benedictine friends.
 
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I wonder what would have happened if the priest had insisted on a below the knees conservative black skirt…I mean here on the thread. Would obedience be quite as golden? I hope!
 
Doubtless that would have provoked a howl of rage from the feminist lobby here !
 
Below the knees would hardly be conservative. Conservative would be ankle length. 😛
 
OP: Your wife has a hard decision to make. Whether or not the priest is in his right to ask this, the decision is up to your wife.

I understand being called to a devotion. It can be very difficult to give it up. At this point it really is a matter of: Making some kind of compromise with priest, leaving the music team, or setting aside the veil.

It’s just sad that uniformity comes before all else.

I’ve actually never seen a music team that wore matching outfits so I think this uniformity thing is just odd but what do I know.
 
So I fear. I think the key is ‘obedience to authority you agree with’…(takes all the fun and obedience out of it)
 
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I personally think the veil is a beautiful tradition and an outward display of modesty and humility before our Lord. It is quite sad that manners seem to have gone the wayside in the modern era. I see so many women wearing inappropriate attire at church for Mass. Tank tops, mini skirts, hooker boots, leggings so tight you can see everything. The last week there was a group of young women in front of me wearing very tight t-shirts and frayed mini shorts cut so short they didn’t even reach to mid thigh and they were constantly tugging them down. I felt those women were not being respectful not just to Our Blessed Lord, but to themselves as well. The body is a holy temple, one should treat it as such. Sadly I wonder if they didn’t know any better? Society at large today essentially teaches it’s okay for women to dress like hookers. In fact they see it as “women’s empowerment”, when I say it’s quite the opposite. I find it sad the Church does not teach the values of modesty any more. At my parish our priest doesn’t have a dress code and frankly I think he’s just happy people show up for Mass. (is it really that bad in the modern era?)

I think it’s wonderful your wife wants to veil and feels called by the Lord to do so in His house. My advice would be to leave that parish and find a different one that will not discourage the practice of veiling in any way. If this priest was truly a traditionalist, he would actively encourage the practice of veiling, not discourage it in any way or form. I know some may say my attitude is rather “Victorian”, but people had much better manners back in that era and knew how to show respect. We as human beings have lost something in the modern era! Sad!
 
I’m sorry but I think you are trying to argue about something that isn’t there. As I said, I think she should obey the priest or choose not to be the choir director and continue to veil.

God bless.
 
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Yes. Just how I feel. For me, and as I have seen with others, veiling is extremely important. Some won’t understand this but I have to have some type of covering just to enter the church, whether it be a veil, hat, scarf or sometype of headband. It is my devotion to God. My obedience to God. As I said, I know of others who feel the same.
 
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The priest is the boss. You can see if he will compromise. If not do what he says quit the choir or go to another church. It is that simple.
 
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