Veneration of Mary?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Asaur89
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Asaur89

Guest
Hi everyone! How do you explain the Veneration of Mary to a protestant? Also, this particular protestant does not believe that Mary remained a Virgin after the birth of Christ, is there scriptural evidence against this? Citations from scripture passages are appreciated. Thanks!
 
I like the typological comparison to the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament.

The Ark carried the physical presence of God in the mana and Ten Commandments for the Israelites, and no one was even allowed to touch it. Mary literally carried God Incarnate in her womb. If God has such high standards for a box that carried bread and stone tablets, how much higher would His standards be for the one who carries Him.

We venerate Mary because she is the most perfect of God’s creations. She is the only sinless created being in all of human history, and she was the one He chose to bear Him incarnate. If that isn’t worthy of respect and veneration then nothing is. It might also help to explain the distinction between veneration and adoration. I find that many Protestants don’t understand that Catholics mean two very different things with those words, sort of like how most Protestant sects treat prayer as synonymous with worship, whereas in Catholicism it simply means “to ask”.

I recommend picking up Scott Hahn’s book “Behold Your Mother.” It’ll do a better job going into detail on this stuff than we can manage on the forum.
 
Last edited:
Joseph understood by revelation that Mary was the spouse of the Holy Spirit. Joseph was to be the earthly guardian of the family.

As a Catholic we read over that quickly because it’s so familiar. Joseph understood that marriage was a covenant and Mary had a spouse. God was her spouse and God was her son. Jews would not dare to look at the face of God for fear of dying.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
I recommend picking up Scott Hahn’s book “Behold Your Mother.” It’ll do a better job going into detail on this stuff than we can manage on the forum.
Click to expand...
Did you mean Scott Hahn’s book, “Hail, Holy Queen,” or Tim Staples’ book, “Behold Your Mother”?
 
What is a family without a mother?

God is our Father, thus He has given us Mary as our mother, thus; in Scripture Jesus gave us His mother from the cross. Jesus told Mary: WOMAN, BEHOLD THY SON. And then He told the apostle: BEHOLD THY MOTHER.

What is a kingdom without a queen?

Just as Jesus is the King in His Eternal Kingdom; Mary is the Queen Mother. Just like in the Davidic kingdom, where the mother of the king held an official position in the royal court, and as Queen Mother shared in her son’s reign and served as an advocate for the people and a counselor for her son. It was the king’s mother who reigned as queen, not the king’s wife . Most kings in this period had large harems. King Solomon, for example, had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kings 11:3). It would have been impossible to bestow the queenship on 1,000 women.

In Hebrew the word Gebirah was a title given to queen mothers of Israel and Judah. Literally translated, it is best understood as ‘Great Lady’. The queen mother was also associated with two key Old Testament texts, bound up with Israel’s messianic hopes. The prophecy of [Isaiah 7:14] Involves the sign of a queen mother who will conceive and bear the future Davidic King, Immanuel.

Jesus IS KING, thus Mary is the Queen Mother in heaven.

In the case of Mary, Once a Virgin always a Virgin.

Scripture states that the Virgin shall conceive and give birth to a son. Notice that the prophecy states that she is a Virgin before and after giving birth. Mary’s virginity is a testament to The prophecy. If Mary is not a Virgin, then she is not the virgin of the prophecy and a Jesus is not the messiah. But Mary IS the Virgin, and Jesus IS the Messiah.
 
Last edited:
I am very often trying to understand how someone can love Jesus, follow Him; Jesus who is God but not to want to honor His Mother.
People adore and honor mothers of famous singers, actors, they “follow” celebrities but when it comes to Mary, Mother of God then becomes nothing, she becomes rejected, scorned, disrespected. I am especially reffering to non catholic christians, mainly protestants. I don’t judge but I cannot understand that.
How can you not love Mary but love Jesus, love God but not respect and honor one who became His Mother. It saddens me deeply sometimes.
 
Last edited:
Mary is the Mother of God, full stop.

It’s really simpler to start from this dogmatic belief held by every Christian for 1,500 years.
She is the greatest Christian to ever live, and was chosen by the Father, conceived of the Holy Spirit, to bear the Son.
Click to expand...
No other person has this singular, special, and purposeful relationship with EVERY Person of the Holy Trinity.

Higher in honor than the cherubim,
Deacon Christopher
 
Well, does this particular Protestant have an appreciation for St. Paul, perhaps? Does he think the gospel of John deeper than the synoptic gospels?

If so, he has a veneration (appreciation) for one person over others of worth.

Then one can of course move on to parents and the commandment to honor (venerate) one’s father and mother.

While it is difficult for Protestants to ignore their 400 year or so tradition of “not Virgin Mary”, ones who are more intellectually inclined (or honest) can be brought to read the Church Fathers (all, not just one or two out of context) and ponder the Catholic (and the ORTHODOX) view that can be traced back to the very earliest church and even written (written!) prayer in the 2nd century AD with regard to Mary, and how that teaching has been unbroken. . .and to read that even Martin LUTHER believed in the Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Mother. . .

Start little seeds. Ask just to think about it with an open mind. . .
 
Last edited:
Just the fact that she was/is the greatest fruit of humanity, chosen as the vessel for the work of God’s redemption is enough to understand we can never honor her enough. Of course there are relevant Bible passages: the new ark of the covenant, the new Eve, the woman clothed with the sun… the list goes on.
And besides all that, the early Church Fathers honored her, the tradition of the title Mother of God is ancient. The problem is Protestants don’t have history to back them up.
 
I can’t speak for all Protestants, but some view Catholics - in their veneration of Virgin Mary - as blurring the line between honoring her and adoration of her as a goddess-like person. For example, I once made some Catholic ladies aware of a prayer request and they said they would petition “La Virgen” for me. I knew they meant well, but it came across like they were praying to her as if Mary could grant or deny prayers herself as if she had divine power or something. They were nice Hispanic ladies and I didn’t want to hurt their feelings so I thanked them politely and went on my way.

In short, I think Protestants should honor Mary more, as I have tried to do since joining CAF because she was holy, courageous, obedient to God, and loved Jesus dearly till his death. I now assent to her perpetual virginity, although I am not sure she was without sin her whole life since Scripture says “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” and she was a human born of a man and woman like us.

But I think (in general) most Protestants view Mary as a holy girl (but not necessarily sinless) who loved God and risked much (her life and reputation) to bring Jesus into the world. Unfortunately, most Protestants just tend to mention her at Christmas time, whereas Catholics focus on her throughout the whole year.
 
Last edited:
Yes you are right; Christ was speaking to John from the cross:

“When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home”
 
I know some worship Mary as God. It is wrong on the one hand, but on the other hand there should be more love for Mary, in a healthy and correct way. Mary’s intercession is powerful and she is worthy of honor.
However, I do know some Catholics who have a fear of Mary, as if God would lose everything if they were more faithful to Mary than they are, and on the other hand, I also know Protestants who never mention Mary unless they call someone Mary and with all the explanations why Mary should not be remembered if asked their views. Even then they do not discuss too much why they do not, but only globally refer to Catholics as those who are on the way to Hell because of Mary.
If I will have the opportunity to speak with other Protestants, I will definitelly try to ask them to explain to me, I want to understand what their personal obstacle is, if there is something that will help me to understand.
 
Last edited:
God is a personal God. One of the most accessible ways to praise him is to venerate his mother.
 
Last edited:
All three of the Protestant reformers believed that Mary was ever virgin. Ask this person what has become of their faith.
  1. There are no other “children of Mary” in the bible. Not one, but only one.
  2. Christ fulfilled the prophecy of Zechariah (the one who was pierced), yet he was also, in the same prophecy, to be a “firstborn” and an “only son.” Zechariah 12:10
  3. John 1: All things were created through Christ. His mother was created specifically to give Him flesh.
  4. The Archangel Gabriel saluted her with “Full of grace, the Lord is with you.” No one else is ever greeted that way. Luke 1:28
  5. We honor Mary because Christ honored her first, obeying her (Luke 2) and respecting her (John 2).
  6. Jesus gave His mother to John the Apostle to be his mother - even though his own mother was there at the crucifixion. John 19.
  7. There is a woman in Revelation 12 who does battle with the dragon. “Woman” is not the Church, because John writes elsewhere in Revelation, in different terms, about the Church.
  8. That woman in Revelation 12 is the mother of the Child destined to rule the nations with a rod of iron (see Messianic Psalm 2).
  9. That same woman in Revelation 12 is the mother of all who keep the Gospel of Christ.
  10. John, who received Mary at the cross as his mother, received the Revelation and wrote of the woman.
  11. So, whose mother is she then? Yes, even your friend’s.
Rather biblical. But, one never sees this is they are not looking for it; if they have been taught to view the scriptures differently.
 
Last edited:
I know all these biblical and theological facts and teachings, I know in general why they do not honor Mary. I am more thinking about that personal dimension where I cannot understand when someone knows fact that Mary gave birth to Jesus, how can you not ask yourself about importance of Mary? Are those questions somehow “prohibited” to think about or are unimportant since Jesus is God and Mary is just creature? I would like to know what they think in that point. I didn’t have too many opportunities to ask someone that questions. Maybe I ask wrong questions 🤔
And that is why I am comparing it with mothers of “famous” persons who are honored, the are “great” because the gave birth to “such a great talented singer/actress” but there is big silence (from persons i know) when it comes to Mary in way of being mother of someone important.
 
Ultimately, I see it as a tragic and inevitable over-reaction to the reformation and its rejection of the Catholic Church and Catholicism. If one is separated from the Catholic Church, a justification is needed. Thus, we see and heard all manner of “excuses” for that division: the twisting of scripture, ignorance of scripture, malice and plain old lies.

Most all of it IMO, is ignorance of what the Catholic Church actually is. And that is the greatest tragedy.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
The Ark carried the physical presence of God in the mana and Ten Commandments for the Israelites, and no one was even allowed to touch it. Mary literally carried God Incarnate in her womb. If God has such high standards for a box that carried bread and stone tablets, how much higher would His standards be for the one who carries Him .
Click to expand...
Some time during Lent I heard or read somewhere (I’m sorry I don’t remember where) the interesting fact about Jesus’ tomb being brand new, not an old one. We learn that Joseph of Arimathaea had had a new tomb for himself hewn out of the rock, and he allowed the body of Jesus to be buried in his brand new tomb. I found it a fascinating metaphor for Jesus being carried within the pure and sinless Virgin Mary.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top