Venial or mortal sin?

[2010_Convert]

When you drive over the speed limit and you know you’re doing it, but you’re running late and don’t feel like you have a choice, would that be a venial or mortal sin? Also, if you repeatedly do it and have to confess it often, does that change anything?

 

[benidict]

When you drive over the speed limit and you know you’re doing it, but you’re running late and don’t feel like you have a choice, would that be a venial or mortal sin? Also, if you repeatedly do it and have to confess it often, does that change anything?

If you get killed in a wreck? Mortal. Deffinitely Mortal.

 

[JRKH]

When you drive over the speed limit and you know you’re doing it, but you’re running late and don’t feel like you have a choice, would that be a venial or mortal sin? Also, if you repeatedly do it and have to confess it often, does that change anything?

Well lets break this down…It is against the law to speed why? Because of safety cncerns for you others (neighbors)

If you knowingly speed you are placing yourself as well as your neighbors at an unwarranted risk. Does this show Love for your neighbor? No

Why do you feel that you “have no choice”/ Are they selfish reasons or selfless ones?

Finally, if you repeatedly do it and confess it, what does this say about your Love for God and True contrition?

More than any other, the last one makes me believe that you are dealing with “grave matter” (failure to Love God with your whole heart and your neighbor as yourself (Mt 22:36-40), full knowledge, and consent of will. So yes, I would classify this as a mortal sin. This is not so much for the speeding itself, but for the constant repetition of something you know is wrong.

Peace
James

 

[wworld]

Well lets break this down…It is against the law to speed why? Because of safety cncerns for you others (neighbors)

If you knowingly speed you are placing yourself as well as your neighbors at an unwarranted risk. Does this show Love for your neighbor? No

Why do you feel that you “have no choice”/ Are they selfish reasons or selfless ones?

Finally, if you repeatedly do it and confess it, what does this say about your Love for God and True contrition?

More than any other, the last one makes me believe that you are dealing with “grave matter” (failure to Love God with your whole heart and your neighbor as yourself (Mt 22:36-40), full knowledge, and consent of will. So yes, I would classify this as a mortal sin. This is not so much for the speeding itself, but for the constant repetition of something you know is wrong.

Peace
James

Wait, I really dislike gossip and confess it in confession with the intent of not falling into it again, but sometimes I do. Is this mortal?

 

[JRKH]

Wait, I really dislike gossip and confess it in confession with the intent of not falling into it again, but sometimes I do. Is this mortal?

I don’t know…when you say, “but sometimes I do”, how often are we talking about?
When it happens do you “know” that you are about to gossip and you shouldn’t, but do it anyway?
Or is it more like - you realize in mid-sentence what you are doing and immediately repent and stop?

The thing to remember is that Mortal sin, at it’s core, is a rejection, a defiance of God and His salvic plan for us. That is why two of the requisites for mortal sin are knowledge and consent. If you know gossip is a sin and you consciously do it anyway…then you are deliberately disobeying the Commandment to Love God above all else and your neighbor as yourself.
If, on the other hand, this is a case where you are struggling to overcome a bad habit, then the culpability is lessened.

The thing to remember is that a Mortal sin is always deliberate and against the Love of God. Now this can be an overt rejection of God, or it can be more subtle, like gossiping 10 times in one week and dismissing it as - “well they’re just venial sins” (not saying this is what you do). Gossip is in and of itself, grave matter as it is a sin against loving your neighbor.

In the end, I cannot say if your specific problem with Gossip is venial or mortal. Only you, along with the advice of your confessor can answer that within the specific context of your spiritual journey. Whatever you do though, don’t stop trying to improve.

Peace
James

 

[Claire_from_DE]

IMHO running late is a habit that is very difficult to change. Progress can be very slow but is possible. When I took moral theology in college we were taught there is a type of law that isn’t in itself immoral to break but we must pay the civil penalty for breaking it. If, in this situation, it is possible to drive safely although exceeding the speed limit, there would be no deliberate sin involved, rather the need to overcome a habitual fault. On the other hand, if one has put oneself in the position of possibly endangering another, it would be a least a venial sin to speed.

 

[edowitz1]

Roman Catholic Doctrine Vs. The Doctrinal Teaching of the Word of God

Eternal life is a merited reward [1821, 2010]. - Roman Catholicism
Eternal life is the free gift of God (Romans 6:23)

No one can know if he will attain eternal life [1036, 2005] - Roman Catholicism
The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God (1 John 5:13)

The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation [846]. - Roman Catholicism
There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)

Purgatory is necessary to atone for sin and clean the soul [1030-1031]. - Roman Catholicism
Purgatory does not exist. Jesus made purification for sins on the cross (Hebrews 1:3)

Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception (the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception) [490-492].
Mary, a descendant of Adam, was born in sin (Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12)

Mary is the Mother of the Church [963, 975]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus ( John 2:1)

The Magisterium is the authoritative teacher of the Church. [85-87]. - Roman Catholicism
The Holy Spirit is the authoritative teacher of the church (John 14:26; John 16:13, I John 2:27)

The pope, as the Bishop of Rome, is the successor of Peter [882, 936] - Roman Catholicism
Peter had no successor, nor was he a pope.

The pope is infallible in his authoritative teaching [891]. - Roman Catholicism
God alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19)

Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God [81, 85, 97, 182]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the Word of God (John 10:35, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21). Tradition is the words of men (Mark 7:1-13).

The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the Sacrifice of the Mass. [1364,1405, 1846]. - Roman Catholicism
The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Ephesians 1:7, Hebrews 1:3).

God desires that consecrated bread and wine be worshiped as divine. [1378-1381] - Roman Catholicism
God forbids the worship of any object, even t hose intended to represent Him (Exodus 20:4-5, Isaiah 42:8)

Justification is lost through mortal sin [1033, 1855, 1874] - Roman Catholicism
Justification cannot be lost. Those whom God justifies will be saved from the wrath of God (Romans 5:8-9).

Justification is furthered by sacraments and good works [1212, 1392, 2010] - Roman Catholicism
Justification is the imputation of the perfect righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). In Christ the believer has been made complete (Colossians 2:10).

Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments [183, 1129, 1815, 2002]. - Roman Catholicism
Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation (Ephesians 2:10).

Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life [411, 493]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was a sinner; God alone is sinless (Luke 18:19, Romans 3:23, Revelation 15:4).

Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ [496-511]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary remained a virgin until after the birth of Jesus (Matthew 1:25). Later she had other children (Matthew 13:55-56, Psalm 69:8).

Each Sacrifice of the Mass appeases God’s wrath against sin [1371, 1414]. - Roman Catholicism
The once-for-all sacrifice of the cross fully appeased God’s wrath against sin. (Hebrews 10:12-18).

The Bishops, with the Pope, as their head, rule the universal church. [883, 894-896]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ, the head of the body is the Head of the Church. (Colossians 1:18).

The faithful receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure through the Sacrifice of the Mass [1366, 1407]. - Roman Catholicism
Believers receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure in Christ through faith (Ephesians 1:3-14).

God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory as Queen of Heaven and Earth [966]. She is to be praised with special devotion [971, 2675]. - Roman Catholicism
The name of the Lord is to be praised, for He alone is exalted above heaven and earth (Psalm 148:13). God commands, “You shall have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:3).

Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions 9 968-970, 2677] - Roman Catholicism
Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (1 Timothy 2:5, John 14:13-14, 1 Peter 5:7).

Mary is the co-redeemer, for she participate with Christ in the painful act of redemption [618, 964, 968, 970]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ alone is the Redeemer, for He alone suffered and died for sin (1 Peter 1:18-19).

The sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated in the Sacrifice of the Mass [1323, 1382] - Roman Catholicism
The Sacrifice of the cross is finished (John 19:30).

Indulgences dispensed by the Church for acts of piety release sinners from temporal punishment [1471-1473]. - Roman Catholicism
Jesus releases believers from their sins by His blood. (Revelation 1:5).

The Magisterium has the right to define truth found only obscurely or implicitly in revelation. [66, 88, 2035, 2051]. - Roman Catholicism
No one has the right to go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6, Proverbs 30:5-6).

Scripture and Tradition together are the Church’s supreme role of faith [80, 82]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the church’s rule of faith (Mark 7:7-13, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

 

[John21652]

IMHO running late is a habit that is very difficult to change. Progress can be very slow but is possible. When I took moral theology in college we were taught there is a type of law that isn’t in itself immoral to break but we must pay the civil penalty for breaking it. If, in this situation, it is possible to drive safely although exceeding the speed limit, there would be no deliberate sin involved, rather the need to overcome a habitual fault. On the other hand, if one has put oneself in the position of possibly endangering another, it would be a least a venial sin to speed.

The Catechism at 2269 tells us that -

The fifth commandment forbids doing anything with the intention of indirectly bringing about a person’s death. The moral law prohibits exposing someone to mortal danger without grave reason, as well as refusing assistance to a person in danger.
…

Unintentional killing is not morally imputable. But one is not exonerated from grave offense if, without proportionate reasons, he has acted in a way that brings about someone’s death, even without the intention to do so.

A quick look The Australian Catholic Weekly we find enlarged support for the directive to be careful of human life. Paragraph 14 says -

The fifth commandment presents numerous possibilities of mortal sins. Among them are murder, abortion, destruction of human embryos, causing grievous bodily harm, leading another into a serious sin (scandal), euthanasia, sterilisation performed for contraceptive reasons, reckless behaviour endangering human life, complete drunkenness, habitual use of illicit drugs, etc.

So it would seem that driving that recklessly endangers the life of another can make one morally culpable. It would seem that we are being pointed in the direction of two of the Cardinal Virtues namely Prudence and Temperance, both of which are described in the Catechism in section three, chapter one, ‘The Dignity of the Human Person’. I think we are being told to drive and reign in our need for speed according to the conditions we find ourselves in. Obviously running late for work is a common excuse, but being reckless about getting there is no excuse if others are placed in danger. To most of us, this all seems commonsensical, but being human, we don’t always exercise our best judgement. And we get fined accordingly.

I think the ones who should confess are the Police who use Radar.

I mean, it’s just so unfair…

 

[thistle]

When you drive over the speed limit and you know you’re doing it, but you’re running late and don’t feel like you have a choice, would that be a venial or mortal sin? Also, if you repeatedly do it and have to confess it often, does that change anything?

The ONLY reason a person might knowingly break the speed limit would be if they are rushing someone to hospital to save their life and even then they must take into account the safety of others along the way. If you injured someone on the way to hospital you would of course be guilty of a crime as well as a sin of grave matter.
Late for dinner, business meeting, wedding, birth, interviews etc would never be acceptable excuses.

 

[teachccd]

I was rushing home to get to my Church for a Confirmation retreat. A kind LAPD officer wrote me a little note telling me not to do that. He wants me to send him $434 and promise not to do that again. So I won’t. Mortal sin? I don’t think so but a bad choice, yes…teachccd

 

[benidict]

I was rushing home to get to my Church for a Confirmation retreat. A kind LAPD officer wrote me a little note telling me not to do that. He wants me to send him $434 and promise not to do that again. So I won’t. Mortal sin? I don’t think so but a bad choice, yes…teachccd

they are nice arnt they? I once got one in long beach for 450 dollars and I wasnt even driving…LOL! Log book violation.

 

[JRKH]

I was rushing home to get to my Church for a Confirmation retreat. A kind LAPD officer wrote me a little note telling me not to do that. He wants me to send him $434 and promise not to do that again. So I won’t. Mortal sin? I don’t think so but a bad choice, yes…teachccd

I refer to such costs as a “velocity tax”.

Peace
James

 

[HNA444]

I don’t know…when you say, “but sometimes I do”, how often are we talking about?
When it happens do you “know” that you are about to gossip and you shouldn’t, but do it anyway?
Or is it more like - you realize in mid-sentence what you are doing and immediately repent and stop?

The thing to remember is that Mortal sin, at it’s core, is a rejection, a defiance of God and His salvic plan for us. That is why two of the requisites for mortal sin are knowledge and consent. If you know gossip is a sin and you consciously do it anyway…then you are deliberately disobeying the Commandment to Love God above all else and your neighbor as yourself.
If, on the other hand, this is a case where you are struggling to overcome a bad habit, then the culpability is lessened.

The thing to remember is that a Mortal sin is always deliberate and against the Love of God. Now this can be an overt rejection of God, or it can be more subtle, like gossiping 10 times in one week and dismissing it as - “well they’re just venial sins” (not saying this is what you do). Gossip is in and of itself, grave matter as it is a sin against loving your neighbor.

In the end, I cannot say if your specific problem with Gossip is venial or mortal. Only you, along with the advice of your confessor can answer that within the specific context of your spiritual journey. Whatever you do though, don’t stop trying to improve.

Peace
James

ok, so than can’t most venial sins become mortal? Most people know that venial sins are wrong too, but still do them - so wouldn’t that be a mortal sin, since you’re saying if you know something is wrong? I thught in order for it to be mortal, you have to know it’s a serious sin and still do it anyway?

 

[JRKH]

ok, so than can’t most venial sins become mortal? Most people know that venial sins are wrong too, but still do them - so wouldn’t that be a mortal sin, since you’re saying if you know something is wrong? I thught in order for it to be mortal, you have to know it’s a serious sin and still do it anyway?

You ask good a question.

Can most venial sins become mortal? This is kind of complex. Our western attitude of compartmentalizing and catagorizing sin can be problematic. Even the way that mortal sin is defined in the CCC, with it’s three necessary components feeds into this problem.

Why do people think that they can kowingly sin in “small” ways with relative impunity just because (they believe) the individual sin does not come up to the level of “grave matter”?
To me it makes no sense.
Now I know that the Church is not wrong in the catachism. It is never my intention to say that she is. But in trying to reconcile these matters, I have come to the conclusion that one of two things happen when we act sinfully with full knowldge and free consent.
Either our knowledge and consnet raise the level of the sin to “grave matter”, or the minor sin remains minor and we commit the further, and definitely mortal, sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit by our defiance.

Another aspect of this is that repeated sin, whether intentional or unintentional, is a sign of a deeper issue. Repeatedly confessing venial sin - even with the intent of stopping - is not really getting at the “root cause” of the problem. These “root causes” generally will fit into the very aptly named “deadly” sins.

God does not call us to be “good enough”. He calls us to perfection (Mt 5:48). Believing that one can knowingly commit small sins over and over without serious spiritual damage is just kidding ones self.

I’m sorry if this sounds a bit rambling, but It’s difficult for me to express this clearly and succinctly. Please continue to question If I am not clear…

Peace
James

 

[HNA444]

You ask good a question.

Can most venial sins become mortal? This is kind of complex. Our western attitude of compartmentalizing and catagorizing sin can be problematic. Even the way that mortal sin is defined in the CCC, with it’s three necessary components feeds into this problem.

Why do people think that they can kowingly sin in “small” ways with relative impunity just because (they believe) the individual sin does not come up to the level of “grave matter”?
To me it makes no sense.
Now I know that the Church is not wrong in the catachism. It is never my intention to say that she is. But in trying to reconcile these matters, I have come to the conclusion that one of two things happen when we act sinfully with full knowldge and free consent.
Either our knowledge and consnet raise the level of the sin to “grave matter”, or the minor sin remains minor and we commit the further, and definitely mortal, sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit by our defiance.

Another aspect of this is that repeated sin, whether intentional or unintentional, is a sign of a deeper issue. Repeatedly confessing venial sin - even with the intent of stopping - is not really getting at the “root cause” of the problem. These “root causes” generally will fit into the very aptly named “deadly” sins.

God does not call us to be “good enough”. He calls us to perfection (Mt 5:48). Believing that one can knowingly commit small sins over and over without serious spiritual damage is just kidding ones self.

I’m sorry if this sounds a bit rambling, but It’s difficult for me to express this clearly and succinctly. Please continue to question If I am not clear…

Peace
James

I see what you mean, and I agree with you. But, sometimes, for example if i gossip or say a bad word, i’m not thinking in my head “this is wrong” before i do it, but i still know that it’s wrong. What about situations like that? Do those become mortal sins?

 

[JRKH]

I see what you mean, and I agree with you. But, sometimes, for example if i gossip or say a bad word, i’m not thinking in my head “this is wrong” before i do it, but i still know that it’s wrong. What about situations like that? Do those become mortal sins?

I beleive that in these cases you are referring to “habit”. Things we do without really thinking ahead of time (like the occasional “bad word”), or things that we do because we’ve lost focus on Love (like gossip).
These things lack the “full consent” of forethought and so in these we really don’t find a conscious “defiance” or “rejection” of God’s Love.

However - While we must avoid the sin of scupulocity or dispair, we must likewise not just “blow these off” as “just venial sins” for ALL sin hurts God and hurts us and maybe even hurts our neighbor. They are remnants of our sinful past. Something that we must seek dilligently, through prayer, through focus, through active effort, to overcome.

Breaking bad habits requires time, energy and focus on the goal.

Consider the person trying to loose a lot of weight. They have a goal. It can seem unattainable. They can’t just wish themselves there. They must change their habits. If they stumble or lapse into old habits they must start again and keep moving forward trying to overcome the bad habits. If they lapse into thinking that the “little cheating” isn’t really that bad, they lie to themselves, they weaken themselves and make the goal even more remote than before and eventually the “little cheating” gets bigger and bigger - always “justified” in their own mind - until they eventually give up altogether and never reach their goal…

I hesitate to speak too much about my views because of the number of people we see here who suffer from scrupulocity. But I think that it is of vital import that we, as Catholics, understand the core truths underlying the teachings of our truth about sin. Understanding these truths can help us to properly recognize and fight against sin, growing in Love, Charity, and grace. And to draw ever closer to that perfection to which we are called.

Peace
James

 

[wild_thing]

If you get killed in a wreck? Mortal. Deffinitely Mortal.

 

[teachccd]

I refer to such costs as a “velocity tax”.

Peace
James

And rightfully so…

 

[wworld]

Well lets break this down…It is against the law to speed why? Because of safety cncerns for you others (neighbors)

If you knowingly speed you are placing yourself as well as your neighbors at an unwarranted risk. Does this show Love for your neighbor? No

Why do you feel that you “have no choice”/ Are they selfish reasons or selfless ones?

Finally, if you repeatedly do it and confess it, what does this say about your Love for God and True contrition?

More than any other, the last one makes me believe that you are dealing with “grave matter” (failure to Love God with your whole heart and your neighbor as yourself (Mt 22:36-40), full knowledge, and consent of will. So yes, I would classify this as a mortal sin. This is not so much for the speeding itself, but for the constant repetition of something you know is wrong.

Peace
James

Sorry to say this (actually, not really, or I wouldn’t), but… Ahem… Willfully committing a venial sin does not make it mortal. Or else most who have told white lies (I know I have, albeit infrequent, but I try not to) would not be able to receive communion.

I do think however that you have to have a will to stop whatever the venial sin may be at confession (hence the “I promise … To avoid whatever leads me to sin” ). But we’re human. And it would be blaspheming (from my understanding, correct me if I’m wrong) the church to support that man is perfect. God wants us to to aspire to be perfect, but He knows that we can’t (that’s how I translate Mt. 5:48 Anyway) Only He is perfect. He will not hold us guilty of mortal sin for committing a venial sin willfully. It angers him, and we should avoid all sin, but we’re not mortal sinners for committing a venial sin. We’re all sinners.

If I’m misinterpreting Catholic faith, please tell me. Thank you.

 

[JRKH]

Sorry to say this (actually, not really, or I wouldn’t), but… Ahem… Willfully committing a venial sin does not make it mortal. Or else most who have told white lies (I know I have, albeit infrequent, but I try not to) would not be able to receive communion.

Why would such a person not be able to receive communion? All one needs do is to be contrite and go to confession…Then one is free to receive.

Seriously - I appreciate the questioning because it helps me to work through some of this. Also, please recognize that what I express here is my own devotional view as enlightened by Church teaching and the Holy Spirit.

I do understand that not all sins will automatically become grave matter in and of themselves because of full knowledge and consent. However, when considering this whole issue, I had to ask myself, "if I fully know that something is a sin and I fully choose to do it anyway, what does this say about my Love for God and neighbor in accordance with the two great commandments? (Mt 22:36-40)
It’s pretty obvious that full knowledge and consent means that I am acting, not out of imperfection for my conscience and my intellect have told me this is wrong, but rather out of defiance because, knowing full well that the sin hurts me and saddens God, I say in essence, “get behind me Jesus”, and proceed to commit the sin…

So perhaps the proper question would be, If the direct sin does not come up to “grave matter” what about the sin of deliberately doing something against the Love of God?

I do think however that you have to have a will to stop whatever the venial sin may be at confession (hence the “I promise … To avoid whatever leads me to sin” ). But we’re human.

You are absolutely right and I don’t want to come off here as some draconian “fire and brimstone” type. There are many factors that come into play such as bad habits that we just have not been able to overcome…Plus there are those who stuggle with scrupulocity and I do not wish to trouble such ones.
The essence of sanctification, of growing in holiness, is in the struggle to overcome. Let us continue to strive together for that perfection to which we are called.

And it would be blaspheming (from my understanding, correct me if I’m wrong) the church to support that man is perfect. God wants us to to aspire to be perfect, but He knows that we can’t (that’s how I translate Mt. 5:48 Anyway) Only He is perfect. He will not hold us guilty of mortal sin for committing a venial sin willfully. It angers him, and we should avoid all sin, but we’re not mortal sinners for committing a venial sin. We’re all sinners.

So long as we are giving it our best efforts, and relying on the Grace and Love and Mercy of God, then I agree that He will not hold us guilty…But the key here is that it must be our “best efforts”. In too many catholics, and in christians in general, I see a tendancy to just try and glide along figuring that doing the minimum is good enough…Too many Catholics seem to set their sights on purgatory instead of on heaven…
As for Mt 5:48, yes God knows that we are imperfect, and that we stumble…But I don’t think that He is going to view our imperfection as carte blanche for habitual sin either…
He says we are called to perfection and that is good enough for me to set out on the journey. I may not be able to reach that perfection before my corporeal death, but i hope not to be caught napping when I should be striving.

If I’m misinterpreting Catholic faith, please tell me. Thank you.

No - I don’t think that you are misinterpreting. Your questions are good ones and I appreciate how they make me think through my position and try to accurately communicate that which the Holy Spirit has inspired in me.

I believe that one of the issues is that, while the Western Church and the Catachism, are very – uummm – linear, rational and even legalistic in it’s language, I personally lean toward a more eastern, wholistic, mystical view. I start from the Two Great Commandments of Love, upon which Jesus tells us all law is based, and work my way out from there…Or I take a church teaching and look to see how it fits into the “Law of Love”.

Overall I find these conversations stimulating and helpful I hope others do as well.

Peace
James