Vent-"Living Stations"

[kage_ar]

I am a little confused about something. Why would Jesus being physically present mean that people shouldn’t laugh and have a good time? I can’t imagine Jesus wanting us to only be somber and serious in his presense!

To be respectful does not mean one has to be “somber”. When in a Church, respect and decourm…

Do’s

Genuflect to Jesus in the Sacrament when you enter and before you leave. Make a bow or sign of reverence when you pass directly in front of the tabernacle.

Cover shoulders, tummys, backs, knees and cleavage. Wear clean and mended clothes.

Speak in an “inside voice”

Use modest language

Smile

Shake hands or give a friendly hug in greeting

Walk slowly

Don’t

Wear dirty, torn or immodest clothes

Shout, holler, giggle, shreik, guffaw

Use immodest or crude language

Run, jump, trot, flail arms and legs

Public displays of affection (kissing, stroking, full body hugs, etc.)

Chew gum, eat, drink

Run about the sanctuary

 

[sharmin]

To be respectful does not mean one has to be “somber”. When in a Church, respect and decourm…

Do’s

Genuflect to Jesus in the Sacrament when you enter and before you leave. Make a bow or sign of reverence when you pass directly in front of the tabernacle.

Cover shoulders, tummys, backs, knees and cleavage. Wear clean and mended clothes.

Speak in an “inside voice”

Use modest language

Smile

Shake hands or give a friendly hug in greeting

Walk slowly

Don’t

Wear dirty, torn or immodest clothes

Shout, holler, giggle, shreik, guffaw

Use immodest or crude language

Run, jump, trot, flail arms and legs

Public displays of affection (kissing, stroking, full body hugs, etc.)

Chew gum, eat, drink

Run about the sanctuary

I agree with all that (exept PDAs…I think that can be fine if not sexual in nature of course). I thought people were saying you couldn’t laugh, smile, or have a good time.

 

[Cat]

By CWBetts:
“I am just saying that I won’t take her word as absolute truth. It is reasonable to assume that there may be an element of exaggeration going on.”

By EasterJoy:
“Are you saying that if the OP did not report an emotional response to jumping in church, you’d find her story easier to believe?”

By CWBetts:
“The OP admitted that she was angry.”

By EmilB OP:
Post #1
As we made a bee-line for the door through the throngs of parents and teenagers who were whooping it up, my wife mentioned to the principal-a Sister, mind you-that the Blessed sacrament was in fact in the tabernacle Sister replied “No. Don’t do that. God celebrates His people.” and physically brushed my wife out of the way.

Post#9
**My wife **and I are orthodox, some would say trad

I’m a man. Emil is a masculine name. Good careful reading there future apologists.

By the way, I like the way everyone is calling me a liar behind my back. You guys are good at reading between the lines but apparently not ON the lines.

And kage_ar-Thanks for sticking up for me and actually getting the point. You’re alright!

I feel belittled by your posts. “Good careful reading there future apologists” is a sarcastic and insulting comment that makes people feel bad over an honest mistake. (Emil is a German name and not very common in the U.S.)

You offer the story of St. Nicholas as if to say that punching sinners in the face is a good thing, and that frightens me. I don’t think that physical violence is a good approach to helping sinners find their way home to the Catholic Church and to Jesus in this day and age. I don’t think it’s a wise approach at all.

I’m actually wondering if you really are a Catholic. You don’t seem like the kind, loving Catholics that I know and admire. And you seem to see all the bad in people and situations instead of noticing the good. I know you think you are being firm and orthodox, but I think that a soft word rather than sarcasm or harshness would do much to correct the situation described in your OP.

 

[karennascargo3]

Great post, Cat

 

[CWBetts]

I definitely agree. Very well done, Cat.

 

[Cat]

I just hope it’s appropriate for me to post something so direct on Holy Saturday, but as the OP said in Post #44, “Being charitable does not always mean being nice.” I tried to phrase my post with “I and me” rather than the accusatory “you.”

Actually, though, I disagree with the statement about being charitable. Here is what “charity” is according to St. Paul’s letter to the Corinthians in the Bible:

patient
kind
not jealous
does not brag
is not arrogant
does not act unbecomingly
does not seek its own
is not provoked
does not take into account a wrong suffered
does not rejoice in unrighteousness but rejoices with the truth
bears all things
believes all things
hopes all things
endures all things

I don’t know what all of you think, but I think the above list sounds like a great description of “nice.” I wish I were more like this list, especially the part about “does not seek its own” and “does not take into account a wrong suffered.”

 

[EasterJoy]

To be respectful does not mean one has to be “somber”. When in a Church, respect and decourm…

Do’s

Genuflect to Jesus in the Sacrament when you enter and before you leave. Make a bow or sign of reverence when you pass directly in front of the tabernacle.

Cover shoulders, tummys, backs, knees and cleavage. Wear clean and mended clothes.

Speak in an “inside voice”

Use modest language

Smile

Shake hands or give a friendly hug in greeting

Walk slowly

Don’t

Wear dirty, torn or immodest clothes

Shout, holler, giggle, shreik, guffaw

Use immodest or crude language

Run, jump, trot, flail arms and legs

Public displays of affection (kissing, stroking, full body hugs, etc.)

Chew gum, eat, drink

Run about the sanctuary

As I tell my kids in religious education classes, the Lord gave us his entire beautiful world to run and shout in. We give him back a tiny corner, where we can all be quiet and listen together.

 

[Hesychios]

Just returned from “Living Stations” as presented by my son’s grade school.

To make a long story short there was the now obligatory 15th station “Jesus Rises From the Dead”. I guess that one is for those among us who don’t know how the story ends.

Actually the Eastern Catholic perspective has always been emphasized on the resurrection from death, not the death itself (one will see images of the crucified Christ in temple, but the big overriding image is of the glorified triumphant Christ). The Latin Catholic tradition alone, just 1 out of 23 Catholic churches, seems to routinely emphasize the passion and death of Christ more than the resurrection.



This can be seen in the “crucified Christ” motif, many Catholics are appalled to see “touchdown Jesus” above an altar of God, perhaps it is a mostly just case of bad art but since it is not one one expects to find, the bad effect on us can be exaggerated.

http://www.nationalshrine.com/atf/cf/{b0534716-4524-407d-a065-b68c4bfcb4be}/WORSHIP2.JPG

The stations of the cross originated in the east, in Jerusalem, as ‘living stations’ and was carried west later by pilgrims. The problem seems to arise that it is primarily a ‘Friday’ devotion, and because it is done on Friday Jesus has not risen as yet. It’s the day He suffered. So the resurrection message should properly be played out on Sunday in keeping with the weekly calendar (or the Holy Week calendar).

Don’t want to bum anyone out with all that suffering.

Relating to the passion and death of Our Lord is important. It should bum us out, but without also reflecting on the rising of Christ, and the hope in His message, one can develop a rather dark (and even frightening) religious perspective. I think that for children in the formative stage of religious consciousness, this can be a tricky time.

Too many have grown to adulthood rejecting religion altogether, and some of this can be traced to rejecting the dark, wrathful and vengeful God they think Christianity proclaims, instead of the Good News that the kingdom of God, and joyous salvation is at hand for those who persevere.

IIRC, Pope John Paul II added the 15th station.

This explains a lot (to me).

Pope John Paul II was very sensitive to the east-west differences in Catholic perspective. He seems to have wanted to re-balance the two. This is also reflected in his adding to the meditations of the Rosary and much of the wording in the CCC (some wording in the section on Original Sin comes to mind, as well as the section on prayer being primarily the effort of an Eastern Catholic priest).

http://www.iconsexplained.com/iec/pics/040_02092_08_crucifixion.jpg

http://www.iconsexplained.com/iec/pics/046_resurrection.jpg

http://www.iconsexplained.com/iec/pics/092_virgin_inexhaustible_cup.jpg

http://www.iconsexplained.com/iec/pics/02095_deisis3_661x215x72.jpg

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[kage_ar]

I don’t think that physical violence is a good approach to helping sinners find their way home to the Catholic Church and to Jesus in this day and age. I don’t think it’s a wise approach at all.

Jesus Himself demonstrated that there is a proper time to get physical, remember, when people were disrespecting the temple? Jesus tapped them on the shoulder and said “Excuse me, would you be ever so kind as to take your business outside”… Nope, He turned their tables over and ran them out. Jesus got physical when it was needed.

 

[Humbled1]

I feel belittled by your posts. “Good careful reading there future apologists” is a sarcastic and insulting comment that makes people feel bad over an honest mistake. (Emil is a German name and not very common in the U.S.)

You offer the story of St. Nicholas as if to say that punching sinners in the face is a good thing, and that frightens me. I don’t think that physical violence is a good approach to helping sinners find their way home to the Catholic Church and to Jesus in this day and age. I don’t think it’s a wise approach at all.

I’m actually wondering if you really are a Catholic. You don’t seem like the kind, loving Catholics that I know and admire. And you seem to see all the bad in people and situations instead of noticing the good. I know you think you are being firm and orthodox, but I think that a soft word rather than sarcasm or harshness would do much to correct the situation described in your OP.

Really? You have the audacity to call into question whether someone is really a Catholic based solely on some posts in a chat forum? Where is the charity there?

He never claimed to be “like” the kind of Catholics you know, he simply complained that our Lord, who was truly present there – in that chapel --, was being treated in a disrespectful manner. And yes, whooping it up and acting as if He is not even there is incredibly disrespectful.

If Christ was physically standing there and the children and parents were acting that way, would you simply offer a “soft word”, or would you perhaps suddenly become “firm” about people needing to give our Lord all the glory, honor, and praise that is rightly His?

The Church teaches that both situations are equal, and I believe!

I don’t know if you’ve ever had a chance to pay visit to a church on Holy Saturday, when the tabernacle sits open and empty. It is then that one can truly feel the difference between when Christ is physically present with us and the utter desolation of when He is not. It is also a good time to reflect on the way that we handle ourselves when we are in His Presence.

May all have a blessed Easter!

 

[CWBetts]

Jesus Himself demonstrated that there is a proper time to get physical, remember, when people were disrespecting the temple? Jesus tapped them on the shoulder and said “Excuse me, would you be ever so kind as to take your business outside”… Nope, He turned their tables over and ran them out. Jesus got physical when it was needed.

It really burns my buttons when people are rude and use the cleansing of the temple as their justification. I guess the exhortations not to judge and forgive others go to the wayside. This is a poor attitude to be displaying, especially during the holiest season of the liturgical year.

 

[kage_ar]

It really burns my buttons when people are rude and use the cleansing of the temple as their justification. I guess the exhortations not to judge and forgive others go to the wayside. This is a poor attitude to be displaying, especially during the holiest season of the liturgical year.

It really burns my buttons when people throw out the “do not judge” card.

We are REQUIRED to judge actions, this is both Scriptural and stated plainly in the Catechism. We cannot judge souls, that is God’s job.

We are required to say “this action is sinful”

God says “that sin was mortal”

Big difference there.

CCC citations below.

**1861 **Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

**1807 ***Justice *is the moral virtue that consists in the constant and firm will to give their due to God and neighbor. Justice toward God is called the “virtue of religion.” Justice toward men disposes one to respect the rights of each and to establish in human relationships the harmony that promotes equity with regard to persons and to the common good. The just man, often mentioned in the Sacred Scriptures, is distinguished by habitual right thinking and the uprightness of his conduct toward his neighbor. “You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor.” “Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven.”