Vent-"Living Stations"

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“Adding the 15th station does not miss the point. There is no point in suffering without hope in the resurrection.”

Indeed. However, I believe I posted “during Lent”. Lent being the time when we focus on the suffering.

And by the way, this is an alternate version celebrated by JPII himself on Good Friday 1991.

usccb.org/nab/stations.shtml

Particularly interesting is the opening prayer:

Minister:
God of power and mercy,
in love you sent your Son
that we might be cleansed of sin
and live with you forever.
Bless us as we gather to reflect
on his suffering and death that we may learn from his example
the way we should go.
(emphasis mine)
We ask this through that same Christ, our Lord.

I don’t see a 15th station in this one.
 
I’m sorry, I did not intend to call you or anyone in particular puffy-headed.

And yes, I agree that middle schoolers are not “little ones,” but neither are they adults or even young men and women. They’re young teenagers.

So you do not believe that Living Stations can serve as an evangelistic outreach as well as a solemn devotion?

And you believe that just because someone was baptized as a Catholic, they fully understand everything, including True Presence?

If they are Catholics and don’t attend Mass, you would not call that “fallen away?”

I guess I’m kind of confused here. You say it’s a private Catholic Academy for Catholics. Yet you also say that parents don’t attend Mass and don’t mind saying so–why would these insolent parents want to be involved in a private Catholic academy? You describe a school that doesn’t seem interested in teaching the Catholic faith–then why is the school a “private Catholic academy for Catholics?” What Catholics would want to go there? (Unless the public or other private schools are so dismal that this school is the best choice)?

All I’m trying to say is that a lot of parents, even though they are Catholic, either don’t know or don’t admit that Jesus is Truly Present in the Blessed Sacrament in repose in the Tabernacle, and that we have to appeal to the Lord to call them home to His Church and full practice of their Catholic faith.

Our parish statistics show that around 90% of the parents of the children in the parish school do not attend Mass on a regular basis. So yes, I think it’s very possible that 95% of your parents do not attend Mass, even though it’s a private Catholic academy.

BTW, are students not admitted to the Academy unless they are Catholic? That is really very interesting and unusual. I think it’s extremely surprising that school with such strict admission requirements would be so careless about Stations and the behavior of the parents at such a devotion, and so lacking in religious education to the students. I agree with you that parents should show more decorum in the presence of the Lord, and save the picture-taking and dancing around for the parking lot. I’m guessing that if you have a good reputation academically, there are a lot of students in the school who say they are Catholic (and really aren’t). We have one of the top-rated private Catholic high schools (not a parish school) in the U.S. in our city, and around half the students are not Catholic. They come to that school because of its amazing academics, arts, and sports.
 
Yeah, the bottom line is that the Blessed Sacrament wasn’t removed, IMHO. God celebrates His people just fine without the Blessed Sacrament being physically in the tabernacle during all the goings-on. It would have been much more respectful, I think.

Personally, I have not ever seen a Living Stations; and from what people have said, I guess it’s kind of like a theater production. Maybe it would have been better to have it in an auditorium or some other venue.
 
Count me as another puff head who feels we should be reverent when we are in the presence of the Sacrament. 👍
 
I’m confused also. Many catholic schools–even parish schools–have 50% or more steudents who are not Catholic or not practicing Catholics. Parents send their children there for the acedemics, the discipline, the reputation, lots of reasons.

If you’ve seen this kind of thing before, than it is very likely that your school also has a sizable population of non-Catholic students.

EasterJoy gave some great advice on dealing with the Principal/Sister’s behavior toward you and your wife. That and huge doses of prayer for the other families in the school are your best recourse.

With this attitude toward Our Lord and the faith in general (no religion classes for the 7th grade), perhaps it would be best to recondition yourself to just think of this school as an ordinary private school with whatever advantages it has outside of faith formation. That appears to be how everyone else is thinking of it.
I guess I’m kind of confused here. You say it’s a private Catholic Academy for Catholics. Yet you also say that parents don’t attend Mass and don’t mind saying so–why would these insolent parents want to be involved in a private Catholic academy? You describe a school that doesn’t seem interested in teaching the Catholic faith–then why is the school a “private Catholic academy for Catholics?” What Catholics would want to go there? (Unless the public or other private schools are so dismal that this school is the best choice)?

All I’m trying to say is that a lot of parents, even though they are Catholic, either don’t know or don’t admit that Jesus is Truly Present in the Blessed Sacrament in repose in the Tabernacle, and that we have to appeal to the Lord to call them home to His Church and full practice of their Catholic faith.

Our parish statistics show that around 90% of the parents of the children in the parish school do not attend Mass on a regular basis. So yes, I think it’s very possible that 95% of your parents do not attend Mass, even though it’s a private Catholic academy.

BTW, are students not admitted to the Academy unless they are Catholic? That is really very interesting and unusual. I think it’s extremely surprising that school with such strict admission requirements would be so careless about Stations and the behavior of the parents at such a devotion, and so lacking in religious education to the students. I agree with you that parents should show more decorum in the presence of the Lord, and save the picture-taking and dancing around for the parking lot. I’m guessing that if you have a good reputation academically, there are a lot of students in the school who say they are Catholic (and really aren’t). We have one of the top-rated private Catholic high schools (not a parish school) in the U.S. in our city, and around half the students are not Catholic. They come to that school because of its amazing academics, arts, and sports.
 
Yes, Puff-heads unite! :signofcross:

I’m very glad, given this thread, that our parish school and CCD program teach the children to be reverent in church. We don’t have a living stations, but they do put on a living nativity production with singing and costumes. That happens in the school gym.

I do still think though that the issue comes down to 1) the % of non-Catholics in the school population and 2) the Principal/Sister’s attitude. However, with a large non-Catholic population, the board is probably also concerned about enrollment if the school becomes “too Catholic” as opposed to whatever else it is known for. 🤷
 
“So you do not believe that Living Stations can serve as an evangelistic outreach as well as a solemn devotion?”

-Never said that. See post #13.

“And you believe that just because someone was baptized as a Catholic, they fully understand everything, including True Presence?”

-No not everything. But come on, the True Presence is what we’re all about.

“If they are Catholics and don’t attend Mass, you would not call that “fallen away?””

-Not necessarily. Maybe they don’t understand everything, including weekly Mass participation.

“Yet you also say that parents don’t attend Mass and don’t mind saying so–why would these insolent parents want to be involved in a private Catholic academy?”

-Didn’t say ALL parents don’t attend Mass I said SOME. I really don’t know what the majority of people do. Some are very devout I’m sure.

"You describe a school that doesn’t seem interested in teaching the Catholic faith–then why is the school a “private Catholic academy for Catholics?” "

-You’d have to ask them.

“BTW, are students not admitted to the Academy unless they are Catholic?”

-No. The non-Catholics just have to pay more tuition. I was being facetious earlier.

“I agree with you that parents should show more decorum in the presence of the Lord, and save the picture-taking and dancing around for the parking lot.”

-All I’m saying.
 
Although I can certainly understand the problem with the lack of respect involved, please don’t assume these people or children have had training as Catholics or know to do things otherwise. I truly don’t mean those words as disrespectful to the OP, but let me give you a different perspective.

You have apparently been very blessed to have been taught the correct way. Unfortunately, I’m finding that is no longer done nowadays in may parishes, nor has it been for quite sometime.

As a new candidate myself, I’ve found that many (if not most) RICA program to have no practical teachings other than what the church believes in a very broad sense. It simply does not prepare or teach you about ‘living’ a Catholic life, nor does it teach you the ‘rules’ of Catholic worship.

As an example, I still have no clue when to kneel. Our church does not have kneelers and it’s something no one has bothered to teach us - just in case we happen to visit a church that does! We were taught what the sacrament of Reconciliation is, but not a soul told us what we were to do or how to actually correctly ‘do’ confession or the wordage that is used. I didn’t even know, until just VERY recently, that I am to do another penance if I eat meat on Friday. It sure would have been a good thing to know a lot sooner; but I’m not completely sure some of our RICA leaders even knew until I brought up what I discovered from reading on the internet. Did they just hear 'no meat on Fri., and didn’t hear the rest? LOL :rolleyes:

Now, you have to understand that comes from the deficiency in the parish, not in the people. It seems so many parishes have relaxed their standards and uniformity, that the cradle Catholics get complacent; the long-time converts just go along with the program; and the new converts have no idea things are to be done different. Eventially the ‘newbies’ become the ‘oldies’ and they still don’t know any different! Even for those who do know, after a while, they either forget or just assume it no longer applies - or it no longer applies to ‘them’ or ‘their parish’.

See it isn’t always their fault, it’s the lack the leadership to lead/teach in the correct direction and that problem lies directly with the parish priest. If someone in the parish is doing it wrong, then they should be corrected (but in love and out of concern; not anger). I’m finding perhaps the main culprit in all of this to be the diocese by not following up on what is ‘really’ going on in some of the parishes/catholic schools/etc. or the bishops being so ‘relaxed’ themselves that it is not an issue with them. But that’s just my initial take on what I’ve experienced thus far, but I’m new, so perhaps I shouldn’t assume that.

If you have any doubt, just read through some of the threads posted by the ‘newbies’. It’s amazing how many of us there are that literally have no idea what something is, how to do, or why we do it. I’m talking about very simple basic things. In fact, until your post, I had no idea about not having laughing, loud talking, etc. if the host was present in the tabernacle. After your post, I thought to myself, “Well, of course! That certainly would make sense”; but it’s something not one single person ever told me. As another instance along the same line, in another thread, I just learned about the sanctuary candle burning next to the tabernacle signifies the consecrated host is present in the tabernacle. Again, not a soul told me and it’s not in my RICA book. I just thought that was the greatest thing and how incredibley respectful! But see, up until this point, I have missed a great blessing in not knowing that.

It’s so very frustrating and discouraging for those of us who do desire to follow the Catholic faith correctly. However, I can honestly understand how, after a while, it becomes easy to fall into the more ‘modern/lax ways’ when it seems you’re the only one who has the desire to respect our Lord and do it the ‘right way’. Sometimes when you’re out there in left field all alone, it’s not easy to hang on – especially when you’re new and have no guidance. I feel certain that is what happened to these dear folks you saw.
 
Thank you for your post, karennascargo3. It demonstrates wisdom and charity.

I see that the OP is fairly new on CAF. I would suggest that the OP do some reading. As a fairly new Catholic (6 years this Easter) who converted from Evangelical Protestantism, I’ve done a lot of reading on this site and I’ve also read quite a few of the newly-written popular books by Catholic apologists, e.g., Tim Staples, Scott Hahn, etc. I’ve also attended quite a few Catholic Family Conferences. And I’ve attended Mass faithfully in my own parish and in other Catholic Churches in my diocese, which happens to be a good diocese led by a conservative, orthodox bishop.

I have read and heard (from my bishop, no less) that the vast majority of Catholics do NOT understand in the True Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. I’ve seen stats to the effect that 50% of Catholics know about the doctrine, but DO NOT ACCEPT it as truth. They believe that the Blessed Sacrament is only symbolic.

So the statement, “Come on, the True Presence is what we’re all about” is definitely NOT what many modern Catholics believe. Many modern Catholics believe we’re all about brotherhood and community, or social justice, or all kinds of liberal/modernist theologies.

Also, in the last post responding to me, the OP contradicted something in their earlier posts, where they maintained that their school is Catholic school for Catholics. In the response post, the OP made it clear that there are families who are NOT Catholic in that school. That puts a whole different picture on the Living Stations irreverence. Of COURSE non-Catholics will have no clue that they are supposed to be quiet and reverent when Jesus is in repose in the Tabernacle.

And it seems to me that Catholics who choose not to attend weekly Mass are fallen away Catholics. Attendance at Mass on Holy Days of Obligation as well as weekly, is required for Catholics. A Catholic who chooses not to attend Mass is certainly not a practicing Catholic, hence my use of the words “fallen away.” What else would you call them? “Non-practicing?” Isn’t that the same as “fallen away?” Perhaps some of you assume that “fallen away” is the same as “fallen into sin.” Well, not attending Mass is a sin. Maybe it’s just semantics.

It’s illogical to tell me that all Catholics understand the Doctrine of True Presence–“Come on, True Presence is what we’re all about,” and at the same time excuse those who don’t attend Holy Mass by saying, “Maybe they don’t understand everything, including weekly Mass participation.”
 
"I see that the OP is fairly new on CAF. "

-Actually I’m not. I used to post here several years ago under a different name. And what’s that got to do with anything anyway? Does the length of time one spends on CAF increaseone’s theological knowledge?

“I would suggest that the OP do some reading.”
-I’ve done some reading. Francis DeSales, Pope Bendict XVI, John Paul II, Augustine, Justin Martyr and other some other Church fathers, the CCC, some pedagogical materials by Catholic priests( I was an RCIA instructor for 2 years). I realize they’re not Scott Hahn or Tim Staples but…

“I’ve also attended quite a few Catholic Family Conferences.”

-Good. I attended a Family Rosary walk with my family at a local retreat house. Time well spent.

“As a fairly new Catholic (6 years this Easter)”

-Welcome aboard. 42 years for me this past February.
 
The 15th station was minor compared to the blatant disrespect for the Blessed Sacrament. That’s the bigger battle and we’re losing.
Here is a question for you: What is the Primary purpose of the Blessed Sacrament? What is the primary thing we are supposed to with regards to the Holy Eucharist?
 
(Cont.)

" They believe that the Blessed Sacrament is only symbolic."

-That is heresy, plain and simple.

“So the statement, “Come on, the True Presence is what we’re all about” is definitely NOT what many modern Catholics believe”

-So many modern Catholics should be allowed to persist in their greivous error?

“Also, in the last post responding to me, the OP contradicted something in their earlier posts, where they maintained that their school is Catholic school for Catholics.”

-Again, I apologize. I was being sarcastic when I posted “Its a private Catholic academy. For Catholics.” Because, silly me, I expect a Catholic school to teach the faith and I would expect at least a majority of the children who attend a CATHOLIC school to be Catholic.

“That puts a whole different picture on the Living Stations irreverence. Of COURSE non-Catholics will have no clue that they are supposed to be quiet and reverent when Jesus is in repose in the Tabernacle.”

-You’re begging the question here. I assure you that the vast majority of the families who attend this school identify themselves as practicing Catholics, even those who don’t attend Mass on a weekly basis. Most Catholics who don’t attend Mass don’t “feel” as though they need to. I assure you they vehemently identify themselves as Catholics and become quite irate if their Catholicism is called into question. Nancy Peolsi anyone?

"It’s illogical to tell me that all Catholics understand the Doctrine of True Presence–“Come on, True Presence is what we’re all about,” and at the same time excuse those who don’t attend Holy Mass by saying, “Maybe they don’t understand everything, including weekly Mass participation”

-Whoa. Hold on there. I most certainly did not excuse anyone from attending Mass. I was being ironic, just using your words to excuse lack of respect for the Blessed Sacrament as applied to missing Mass:
“And you believe that just because someone was baptized as a Catholic, they fully understand everything, including True Presence?”-you’re words.
-"*Maybe they don’t understand everything, including weekly Mass participation."-*my reply.
 
Here is a question for you: What is the Primary purpose of the Blessed Sacrament? What is the primary thing we are supposed to with regards to the Holy Eucharist?
Sorry, I don’t understand.
 
Sorry, I don’t understand.
Jesus’ instructions with regard to the Eucharist was not “to adore” or “pay respect to,” although these are both very good things. His specific instructions were “Take this, all of you and eat” and “Take this cup and drink.” The most important thing we can do with regards to the Eucharist is to receive it and participate in Mass. Again adoration is a beautiful thing, but don’t let it become a distraction. Living stations are a wonderful sight to behold. There is nothing wrong with it being done in the sanctuary. The portrayal of the Passion is more honoring to Christ than 1,000,000 genuflections.
 
Jesus’ instructions with regard to the Eucharist was not “to adore” or “pay respect to,” although these are both very good things. His specific instructions were “Take this, all of you and eat” and “Take this cup and drink.” The most important thing we can do with regards to the Eucharist is to receive it and participate in Mass. Again adoration is a beautiful thing, but don’t let it become a distraction. Living stations are a wonderful sight to behold. There is nothing wrong with it being done in the sanctuary. The portrayal of the Passion is more honoring to Christ than 1,000,000 genuflections.
Please read all the posts before you comment. I don’t have a problem with the Living Stations which I believe I stated in Post #13. I have a problem with people being disrespectful in a Church or Chapel(again see OP and elsewhere) where the Blessed Sacrament is present, the Blessed Sacrament being the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ.

As to adoration, read the Cathechism #1378-"Worship of the Eucharist. In the liturgy of the Mass we express our faith in the real presence of Christ under the species of bread and wine, by among other ways, genuflecting or bowing deeply as a sign of adoraton, not only during Mass, but also outside of it, reserving the consecrated hosts with the utmost care, exposing them to solemn veneration of the faithful, and carrying them in procession." (emphasis mine)

And as to what honors Christ more or less, I have the Saints, the Holy Father, the Bishops and Priests to help me with that, thank you.
 
Why do you call me presumptuous? And I have read every single one of your self-righteous posts.
 
With all due respect, EmilB, I know that things don’t often come across in type the way we have it in our brain or heart, but there is also much to be said about how a person comes across in their complaints – even if they are right.

IMHO, your attitude isn’t one of correction, rather justice and complaining. But above everything else, it is an attitude of judgmentalness without knowing or understanding who these people are and why they are where they are in their own spiritual lives. It’s like your elevating your knowledge and your understanding above the others. You’re even quite gruff and unkind in your responses to those in this thread who are trying to understand what you’re saying or try to help.

Now please understand I don’t mean that nasty or unkind; truly I don’t. It’s just that it’s my understanding (as a new convert, and please correct me if I am wrong because I have much to learn and desire to do so) that even in times of error, we as Catholics are to be humble, charitable, and without judgment. We correct through the proper channels with love and humility and we put ourselves in other’s shoes who may just not have ‘gotten it’ yet – all in an attempt to view the situation from a level of charity. In other words, we sometimes have to extend others the grace to learn (or the benefit of the doubt).

Or perhaps I just expect a brother or sister in the Lord and, a fellow Catholic of over 40 yrs., to set an example to those who don’t ‘get it’ or aren’t as far in their spiritual journey and understanding. Please friend, don’t discourage those who don’t ‘get it’; teach them in love and respect. Please show them a loving example that, obviously, they aren’t seeing; as well as being careful to not be a stumbling block to new or weak Christians.

We’ve all got things we need to work on just as much as the next guy. We’re no better, nor no worst, than that next guy. We all don’t deserve the grace, forgiveness, and acceptance that God has given us; surely we can extend at least a little understanding and tolerance of other’s faults. Tolerance doesn’t mean accepting those errors, it just means we try to understand, pray diligently for them, and give them the grace to change.

In this case, I can’t even imagine these dear folks were ‘intentionally and planning’ to disrespect the tabernacle; it’s obvious they have a deficiency in their teaching or understanding. They need gentle and loving correction through big time prayers that leadership comes forward to steer them in the right direction. But just complaining and demanding isn’t going to change a thing because it hardens the hearts toward change. Love opens a person’s heart and gives them the ‘desire’ to change. That can only come through God and God using the right person/people to promote change.
 
Why do you call me presumptuous? And I have read every single one of your self-righteous posts.
Apparently not very carefully. “I don’t have a problem with the living stations per se. I don’t have a problem with living stations in a chapel.” is what I posted-

to which you replied: “Living stations are a wonderful sight to behold. There is nothing wrong with it being done in the sanctuary.”

And as far as being self-righteous, this little verbal swat on the nose; “The portrayal of the Passion is more honoring to Christ than 1,000,000 genuflections.” is a pretty good example in my book.
 
Apparently not very carefully. “I don’t have a problem with the living stations per se. I don’t have a problem with living stations in a chapel.” is what I posted-

to which you replied: “Living stations are a wonderful sight to behold. There is nothing wrong with it being done in the sanctuary.”

And as far as being self-righteous, this little verbal swat on the nose; “The portrayal of the Passion is more honoring to Christ than 1,000,000 genuflections.” is a pretty good example in my book.
Yet I did not insult you personally…as you have done to all who disagree with you. Is the attitude you are displaying in the spirit of Christian charity?
 
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