Vent: Why is it your business?

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styrgwillidar said:
As I mentioned earlier, I think this greatly maligns and insults the integrity of those involved in the process and charged with this serious matter.
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It is in my opinon the annulment process maligns and insults the integrity of the sacrament of marriage as well.

Divorce and annulments both rupture the family unit which has life long consequences for
ALL involved.
 
I know my opinions are not popular on this forum. But just as there are people on here with strong opinons on Vatican 2, I have strong opinons on annulments.
 
Maplebug–would it be possible to compress your thoughts or wait to post until you’ve typed everything you’re thinking of instead of the multiple posts with one line? It gets really difficult to follow the conversation w/ so many posts from the same poster.

Perhaps the number of decrees of nullity have risen because there are, in fact, so many people attempting marriage who have not the slightest clue what marriage means. They do not recognize the permanence, the fact that the primary purpose is the generation and nurturing of offspring (coincidentally, it was 1965 when Griswold v. Connecticut opened the floodgates to the moral disaster of today by legalizing birth control in the US) and that the mutual help and remedy for concupiscence are secondary and tertiary aims. This is where we need to be directing our attention.
 
joanofarc2008 said:
I have to vent. Ok, I don’t have to but I will. I don’t understand why lately there seems to be a large number of people coming on CAF and bashing the decree of nullity process. It’s not perfect - we know it’s not. But it doesn’t mean people are using it as a Catholic divorce. It doesn’t mean people do not have legitimate reasons for seeking one. It is not ours to judge. It is a closed process for a reason. I dare say most of the people that are on here trashing the process are people who have not ever applied for a decree of nullity and are judging the process from the outside. I am not saying that the process cannot be picked apart.

However, why do this on the family life forum where people are coming for support and help. Granted there is a Annulment and Divorce group (see link in signature block) but it doesn’t mean some of the newer people have found it yet. Why not go discuss these matters on a forum that lends itself to the more hypothetical such as the morality forum.

OK my vent’s over. Thanks all for listening. I love you - may God bless you. Pax,
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In this day of disposable marriages, anullments would be greatly reduced if folks listened to to Church before they got married.
 
maplebug55 said:
I am not the only one who thinks theere are too many annulments…

msnbc.msn.com/id/35143792/ns/world_news-europe/t/pope-urges-annulments-crackdown-all-costs/
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Story is out of context. What the Pope said is typical of any address that’s ever been given to a Tribunal and something similar is said to every 1st year canon law student. Nothing the Pope said implies a “crackdown” on annulments. The commentary in the article reveals the ignorance of its author.
 
maplebug55 said:
If Jesus was such a fan of annulments, then why didn’t he talk about them in his ministry?
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Jesus and the Scriptures talked about what a marriage is: permanent till death, procreative, for the good of the spouses, and faithful.

If one of those is missing then no marriage takes place.
Annulments have been given out liberally in teh last 40 years. They were virtually unheard of before.
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canonlaw.info/a_annulments.htm
 
story is NOT out of context. I provided a link. John Paul 2 thought too many were given as well.
Regarding preparation for me…a couple has to meet with the priest, attend Pre-cana classes. There is mandated preparation for couples.
At least in the diocese I live in.
 
story is NOT out of context. I provided a link. John Paul 2 thought too many were given as well.
Regarding preparation for marriage …a couple has to meet with the priest, attend Pre-cana classes. There is mandated preparation for couples.
At least in the diocese I live in.

I think individuals need to take PERSONAL responsibility. The PERSON needs to know their faith, know the CHatecism, know the marriage responsibilities. They can;t leave everything up to the preist or Pre cana people!
 
I didn’t appreciate being told I had an “attitude” just because I did not agree with him/her.
 
maplebug55 said:
story is NOT out of context. I provided a link. John Paul 2 thought too many were given as well.
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I read the article.
The quotes from the Pope give no indication of a “crackdown” on annulments. His comments were pretty basic and simply underlined the essential “mission” of a Tribunal, which is what he’d be expected to focus on in an address to the Rota. It gave no indication of being “aimed at America” in any way shape or form.
Regarding preparation for me…a couple has to meet with the priest, attend Pre-cana classes. There is mandated preparation for couples.
At least in the diocese I live in.
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That’s the process in most diocese I’m aware of…
 
maplebug55 said:
I think individuals need to take PERSONAL responsibility. The PERSON needs to know their faith, know the CHatecism, know the marriage responsibilities. They can;t leave everything up to the preist or Pre cana people!
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People seeking annulements are taking personal responsibility. They are seeking to be assured of their status before imbarking on dating or a marriage that would be adulterous.

Two issues need to be kept in mind.
  1. Statistics need to be parallel to be comparable. The 86% you speak of are those that apply to a tribunal. There are several steps before that when people realize that despite a break down in their marriage and divorce, the marriage was valid and cannot be annulled. So the percentage of Catholics who might think of asking for an annulment compared to those whose marriages are declared null is much lower.
  2. More people are converting to the church and need previous marriages, contracted without the benefit of pre-cana preparation, investigated. Catholics are also marrying non-Catholics in higher numbers and again ask to have a marriage contracted outside the church investigated.
Finally, as many others have said, the state of pre-cana preparation in many places, and the general culture in the US, do not lead to a common understanding of the purpose and meaning behind marriage.

Like many other things, education and understanding waned starting in the 50s when being Catholic became more mainstream and the strong cultural mileau was weakened as Catholics beacme just like everyone else.

We need to pray for dating, engaged, and married couples. We need to do what we can to support pre-cana preparation, Enagaged Encounter and the like within our parish and dioceses.
 
maplebug55 said:
Oh Really?

wenatcheeworld.com/news/2010/apr/09/pope-says-us-grants-too-many-marriage-annulments/
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Once again, the author of the article is drawing implications that are not present in the quotes provided.

Here is the address to the Roman Rota:
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2010/january/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20100129_rota-romana_en.html

There is nothing in there that remotely refers to America or that there are “too many” annulments. It is a basic statement of the mission of a Tribunal and its proper role.
 
maplebug55 said:
I didn’t appreciate being told I had an “attitude” just because I did not agree with him/her.
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Reread Joan’s original post. The reason she made this thread is the bashing of individuals seeking annulments. She said herself, in the original post that the process isn’t perfect, but that was a side note.

All of the responses addressed this “why is it your business” question until your posts. Considering all this, it’s at least confusing that you would come to this thread and say the things you are saying. What’s your point? Are you saying that the problems with the process justifies people’s bashing individual petitioners? After all, that is the topic here, not the process itself… Or did you misunderstand what the thread was about?
 
who bashed who?

I was BASHED. I was told I had an attitude by saying 86% of annulment petitions are granted.

I NEVER bashed any individual.

And I stand by my opinion, just as you have YOUR opinon, that way too many annulments are given out too freely, and that annulments and divorce rupture families which in turn hurts society.

You can have a different opinion if you want to.
 
maplebug55 said:
who bashed who?

I was BASHED. I was told I had an attitude by saying 86% of annulment petitions are granted.

I NEVER bashed any individual.

And I stand by my opinion, just as you have YOUR opinon, that way too many annulments are given out too freely, and that annulments and divorce rupture families which in turn hurts society.

You can have a different opinion if you want to.
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And that is not the topic of this thread.
 
Just to be clear, there have been many threads about the process itself. No one is saying it is wrong to voice your opinion in those threads.

That’s not what this is about at all.

This is about when a well-intentioned individual comes onto CAF requesting personal advice or support relating to an annulment, and his or her thread gets filled with complaints about the process. The individual then gets discouraged and leaves, feeling scorned and not having gotten the help or support sought.

Your having come to this thread and filling it with reasons the process is flawed is an (almost comical) fulfillment of what Joan was talking about, despite her OP not being a personal appeal.
 
maplebug55 said:
who bashed who?

I was BASHED. I was told I had an attitude by saying 86% of annulment petitions are granted.

I NEVER bashed any individual.

And I stand by my opinion, just as you have YOUR opinon, that way too many annulments are given out too freely, and that annulments and divorce rupture families which in turn hurts society.

You can have a different opinion if you want to.
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You were NOT bashed. You were asked politely to provide documentation of your (wrong) opinion. Then the facts were presented, which you ignored. You continue to assert your (uninformed) opinion despite having facts presented to you. But no one is bashing you.

In fact, your posts highlight the OP’s topic perfectly.
 
The irony is that in less than 40 posts and 24 hours, this thread has been completely hijacked by the free-n-easy annulment crowd. :mad:

Luna
 
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