Very confused on "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church."

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thank you Paul…

as i live my daily life there is not a day I do not sin and I am not talking about just the 10 commandments, I am talking about being prideful, jealous, angry, scared. etc…

I confess and repent every day to keep myself clean in my walk with God. then on the final day whenever that is I will have made a confession like I always do, having done so I would be clean aand forgiven of all sin and after I take my last breath …I will be in the presence of Almight God for eternity:D

Paul if everything I just said comes to fruition…do you believe there still might be a chance God will not accept me into heaven?

if yes…please explain
Don’t you see how insecure you are about your salvation? You continually are asking us Catholics if we think you might not get to heaven. That is your conscience prodding you to change.

Don’t you get it? You have separated yourself from God’s grace that is available only through valid sacraments. Until you re-enter the Church (which if I understand your situation correctly, would only require a contrite confession to the priest) , you will not get the peace you seek. You would like to believe that saying you are saved makes it so, but deep down you know that this is not true. THe Holy Spirit is calling you home. Be grateful for his mercy and follow through with what you know deep down you need to do.
 
Hi inkaneer thank you for responding

after your post to me, especially the “not so fast buster”

don’t worry i am not offended .
Deathbed confessions like that of Dismas are certainly valid if like Dismas are done for the correct reason.
I am talking about the right reason
But what happens if you pass into eternity in your sleep without the ability to make such a confession.
If a person goes to bed in sin and dies in their sleep…oh well …hellbound
whose fault is it that they did not make a confession before falling to sleep.?

hence the importance of making one last confession before falling to sleep
And no one can be sure they will be in heaven. .
here is where you and I disagree,

Paul said the same thing to me when I responded to stan in another thread…

I wonder how you would answer the questions I posed to Paul…

Originally Posted by paul c
MPJW,
you are having this little dance with Stan, but you are hearing only what you wish to hear.
I am sorry you believe that …

I am willing to talk this through so we understand each other clearly
He is saying something much different than you are.
ok lets see…
He is saying that when he goes to confession, he is absolved of his sins and thus knows he is in the state of grace until he commits mortal sin.
great i realize this and I believe the same about myself
Since you can not commit mortal sin without knowing that it is mortal and deliberately doing it anyway, you have a pretty good idea of when you are in the state of grace and when you are not if you have a well formed conscience.
agree 100%
Now Stan is not saying that he is going to heaven.
oh?
He is only stating that he knows his current status.
here is my point… right here that everyone passes over. Stan knows his current status right?

what do you exactly mean by saying
he knows his current status
my belief is from that statement is … if stan were to die at the very precise moment in which he knows his current status, then He knows he is going to heaven or at least to what you believe is purgatory…right?

there is no way you believe you are going to hell right?

correct me if I am wrong

now once that is answered…I will be happy to go on …
He has no idea about his future status and is not guaranteed anything.
agree 100%
He must persevere in the faith and be in the state of grace at death to be saved.
agree 100%
Contrast this to what you claim. You have faith in Jesus and therefore you are going to heaven, guaranteed.
I am sorry if you understood me that way …I know there is a bad reputation of OSAS… I made reference to it in prior post
Whereas Stan’s Catholic belief continually motivates him to do God’s will to stay in the state of Grace and drives him toward holiness,
I am happy to hear Stans and yours desire to do the will of God
your Protestant belief breeds complacency and makes sin acceptable as long as you believe that Jesus will ultimately save you.
some christians may believe this…I do not…anyone who believes this has a false belief.

Sin is NEVER acceptable in God’s eyes
In the Protestant belief structure, holiness is not required for salvation, only Faith. Can you not see how huge this gulf is…
sure is

Paul as I just stated there is a big false belief in the christian world
I am sure you saw in my previous post my feelings about OSAS

also Paul if I may say what I am seeing…anyone who is christian but not catholic is given a “protestant” umbrella on these threads. we all believe in Jesus Christ but we all are not protestants of which I am not either.
Ask yourself the simple question:
I’ll be happy to answer…be prepared…my answer may surprise you…
on judgement day, Will Jesus be content with a mere statement of belief
absolutely not
or will he require you to have actually taken up your cross
oh yes…God knows the many crosses I have taken up…I need Him more and more each and every day
and follow him to gain eternal life?
absolutely
Your answer will tell alot about how you understand the Gospel message.
from my answers to your questions, Do you believe I understand the Gospel message?

I look forward to your answer about

what do you exactly mean by saying
he knows his current status
thank you and God bless
 
Don’t you see how insecure you are about your salvation? You continually are asking us Catholics if we think you might not get to heaven. That is your conscience prodding you to change.

Don’t you get it? You have separated yourself from God’s grace that is available only through valid sacraments. Until you re-enter the Church (which if I understand your situation correctly, would only require a contrite confession to the priest) , you will not get the peace you seek. You would like to believe that saying you are saved makes it so, but deep down you know that this is not true. THe Holy Spirit is calling you home. Be grateful for his mercy and follow through with what you know deep down you need to do.
Paul I challenge you to answer the questions I pose to you and lets see who is misunderstanding who?

#96 of the other thread and #755 of this one

thank you

God bless,
 
Hi Paul

I saw your questions to Beth, I like to give you my answers.(below) I also am curious as to how you would answer the same questions when turned around?
  1. What do you believe you have to do toward Salvation that other Christians do not also have to do?
    notice I inserted the words “have to”
…and the reason is to better understand your answer.
To be saved, all people have to recieve sacramental grace,starting with Baptism. This puts them in the state of Grace. No man can be saved without the Grace of God. They then need to stay in the state of grace until death to achieve heaven. To do this, they must avoid mortal sin and love God and Neighbor. If someone does fall from grace through sin, they can be reconciled to God through the sacrament of reconciliation.
Now many non-Catholic Christians have valid baptism so they can achieve heaven if they subsequently avoid mortal sin and love God and Neighbor. However, if they fail to do so, they do not have a valid means of reconciling to God. this is a great disadvantage. They also have a great disadvantage in that being separated from the eucharist, they do not gain the regular graces that help to improve their souls.
  1. What do you believe Christians need to do towards their salvation that you don’t need to do?
notice I inserted the word “need”
Nothing. If you fulfill the requirements taught by the catholic church you will enter heaven. And I have never heard a Protestant faith that demands anything of their members beyond what the catholic church expects.
  1. Can you say that anything other Christians do is actually detrimental to his/her soul?
Yes, unfortunately. First of all they separate themselves from the Church and its sacraments. That is hugely detrimental to his/her soul. Many try to pry Catholics away from the one true faith, This is also detrimental to their souls. And many mislead themselves into false doctrines like sola fide and sola scriptura through their own fanciful interpretations of the bible. This is also detrimental to their souls.
Here are my answers…
Quote:
What do you believe you do toward Salvation that a devout Catholic doesn’t also do?
Can you list even one item?
Are you insinuating that Catholics are deficient because they let God be the judge?
Knowledgeable, well catechized Catholics believe that the Bible is in fact the infallible word of God when properly interpreted . We also believe that Mary was concieved without sin, led a sinfree life and died still a virgin.
Quote:
What do you believe Catholics do towards their salvation that you don’t do?
I’ll bet you can name several things, including partaking of the sacraments.
Actually no I can not…

I partake in the sacraments…but it is different

Eucharist…I have communion at church

you believe the host is the actual body of Christ

I have a spiritual remembrance of Jesus at the last supper
I do not believe the bread and “wine” change to the body and blood of Christ

Reconciliation…you confess to a priest

I confess directly to God in prayer

having said that, is their anything you believe Catholics do towards your salvation that I don’t do?
Well, having valid sacraments is a huge difference.
Quote:
Everyone can identify things Catholics do that other Christians don’t but no one has ever been able to show that any of these things are detrimental to the soul.
I have now come to believe that the reason you are on the site is because you seek to validate your own choices. It would be a disservice for us to tell you that separating yourself from the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic church was an acceptable choice.
 
**John 2:23-25 Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name, observing His signs which He was doing. 24 But Jesus, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, for He knew all men, 25 and because He did not need anyone to testify concerning man, for He Himself knew what was in man. **

Was it not precisely this claiming of salvation by faith (alone), that prompted **Jesus **to say:
*“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but **he **that **doeth **the will of my Father which is in heaven.” *(Matt 7:21)?

Again:
*“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’” *

echoed by

**James **(“Jimmy”, with his “epistle of straw”):

*“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him?” *(James 2:14)?

Again:
*“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?” *(James 2:19-21)

And again:
*“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and **not **by faith only.” *(James 2:24)

And again:
*“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” *(James 2:26)

John:
*"…the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." *(Rev 20:12)

Matthew:
*"… the Son of man shall… reward every man according to his works.” *(Matt 16:27)

Paul:
“…every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labor.”(1 Cor 3:8)

Q: Hey, Martin! Is “faith alone” a valid doctrine based on the **authentic **scriptures which the sacred writers composed?

A: “I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough. I know very well that the word ‘alone’ is not in the Latin or the Greek text …” Martin Luther (Stoddard J. Rebuilding a Lost Faith. 1922, pp. 101-102

Martin, old boy, looks like you’ve attracted an army of staunch followers and defenders of your fabricated, easy-as-pie-no-worries doctrines which are diametrically opposed to the intent and original meaning of scripture, but do remember this:

“Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.” (Deuteronomy 4:2)

“… even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!” (Gal 1:8)"
 
Hi inkaneer thank you for responding

after your post to me, especially the “not so fast buster”

don’t worry i am not offended .

I am talking about the right reason

If a person goes to bed in sin and dies in their sleep…oh well …hellbound
whose fault is it that they did not make a confession before falling to sleep.?

hence the importance of making one last confession before falling to sleep

here is where you and I disagree,

Paul said the same thing to me when I responded to stan in another thread…

I wonder how you would answer the questions I posed to Paul…

Originally Posted by paul c

I am sorry you believe that …

I am willing to talk this through so we understand each other clearly

ok lets see…

great i realize this and I believe the same about myself

agree 100%

oh?

here is my point… right here that everyone passes over. Stan knows his current status right?

what do you exactly mean by saying

my belief is from that statement is … if stan were to die at the very precise moment in which he knows his current status, then He knows he is going to heaven or at least to what you believe is purgatory…right?

there is no way you believe you are going to hell right?

correct me if I am wrong

now once that is answered…I will be happy to go on …

agree 100%

agree 100%

I am sorry if you understood me that way …I know there is a bad reputation of OSAS… I made reference to it in prior post

I am happy to hear Stans and yours desire to do the will of God

some christians may believe this…I do not…anyone who believes this has a false belief.

Sin is NEVER acceptable in God’s eyes

sure is

Paul as I just stated there is a big false belief in the christian world
I am sure you saw in my previous post my feelings about OSAS

also Paul if I may say what I am seeing…anyone who is christian but not catholic is given a “protestant” umbrella on these threads. we all believe in Jesus Christ but we all are not protestants of which I am not either.

I’ll be happy to answer…be prepared…my answer may surprise you…

absolutely not

oh yes…God knows the many crosses I have taken up…I need Him more and more each and every day

absolutely

from my answers to your questions, Do you believe I understand the Gospel message?

I look forward to your answer about

what do you exactly mean by saying

thank you and God bless
I am now confused. Weren’t you the person who said in the other thread that the reason you left the catholic church was because you went to a Baptist funeral for your friend and felt Joy that everyone knew he was going to heaven because he beleived in Jesus.

Now you are advocating against OSAS and aligning with the Catholic belief that you must do good works to get to heaven. Once you say that, then the logical extension is that you must always to those works, until you die. And therefore, there is no assurance of heaven.

As for knowing your current salvation status, this is possible. If you have just been absolved of all your sins, you know that you are currently in the state of grace. If you have just committed a mortal sin, you know that you are not. But no one knows what the future holds for them so predicting that you will go to heaven is rather foolish.
 
Doesn’t your church on the right hand have a list of saints they have stated that they know are in heaven but on the left hand they say it is a sin of presumption? So is the Church violating her own standard and if not why? Look at the stories of her saints, which some are mere myths and have been declared saints including people that never even existed. This is the problem when one makes itself infallible, equal to God, in certain pronouncements. All religions do the same thing which is what makes the relationship with Jesus so essential because one must enter through Him to have eternal life and there is no other Name given to men to which one can be saved and one mediator between man and God, Jesus.
The good news is that God extends and calls and has predestined the elect from all tribes and tongues so we can expect to see Catholics and Protestants and Jews alike in heaven on the basis of faith alone in Christ alone, isn’t that the greatest!!
Yeah we have a list of those people WHO HAVE DIED that we call saints. The difference is these saints are unable to sin anymore because their earthly life is over. In addition saints now go through a lengthy investigation of every aspect of their lives. Also scripture records that Peter was given the keys to heaven but Jesus retained the keys to hell. That is why we can declare this person or that person is in heaven but the church has never said any one person was in hell. Now contrast that with protestantism which has no authority in heaven, hell or on earth which does no investigation whatsoever and in which individual protestants can presume they are saved before they die. Huge difference !!!
 
Yeah we have a list of those people WHO HAVE DIED that we call saints. The difference is these saints are unable to sin anymore because their earthly life is over. In addition saints now go through a lengthy investigation of every aspect of their lives. Also scripture records that Peter was given the keys to heaven but Jesus retained the keys to hell. That is why we can declare this person or that person is in heaven but the church has never said any one person was in hell. Now contrast that with protestantism which has no authority in heaven, hell or on earth which does no investigation whatsoever and in which individual protestants can presume they are saved before they die. Huge difference !!!
There does appear to be an apparent contradiction. Saying on one hand, we don’t know who will make it to heaven. God is the final judge. On the other hand, the Church cannonizes certain people as saints, and they are guaranteed heaven. How do they know for sure that Mother Teresa did not committ a mortal sin prior to her death, and it went unconfessed. I would put my money on the fact that she did not, and she is in heaven. However, isn’t God still the ultimate judge, regardless of whether she is cannonized as a saint or not? The Church is not the ultimate judge, God is.
 
What was the purpose for the letter of 1 John? He states the very purpose of the letter and it contradicts the statement above. This is not the only contradiction to that statement either.
Yeah, I like the part in 1 John 5:18 which says:

“18 We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.”

It reminds me of all those protestants who go around claiming they are sinners. Looks to me like they were not born of God.
John 20:23 was told to the disciples less Thomas, not the Roman Catholic Church. Loosing and binding are the same concept, which Jesus told all of his followers, true followers in Matthew 18. The reason why this is true is because it is not the power of a human person to forgive sins but rather the acceptance or rejection of the gospel that removes sin or retains them based on the only one that can forgive sins, which is God.
Yes but at the time, which was the day of the resurrection the Apostles WERE the Church. They were the ones who would lay hands on [ordain] bishops [episcopoi]. They ordained deacons [diakoni]. They ordained priests [presbuteroi]. They were the ones to whom authority was given.
We can forgive one another when we hurt each other and that pleases God, but the forgiveness of sins against God can only be removed by God, that was one main purpose of the cross.
And this is where in scripture? It isn’t. You made it up. Here is what scripture says. First, there is only one sin that is unpardonable and that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Everything else is forgiveable. Now when Jesus empowered the Apostles with the authority to forgive the sins of others he did not give them a list of exceptions. You made up your own list. So another example of a false gospel coming from you.
 
Paul refered to Timothy as his son because of his love he had for him as a parent to a child; not out of spiritual superiority or authority otherwise Paul and makes God a liar for Jesus said call no man Father, Teacher or Rabbi in the spiritual authoritative teaching sense of the word; a truth that is denied by many. Jesus gives the reason; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. The Catholic explanation misses the point that Jesus is telling us; that there is but one Spiritual teacher with true authority from heaven verses calling your dad as father, which is recognizing an eartly or carnal authority over his child. Catholic doctrine blends the two by refusing to recognize the distinction that Jesus made between the Spiritual authority in heaven and the earthly parental authority on earth. that is the difference as I read the article of explanation in light of what Jesus said.
That is the stupidest explanation of that whole “Call no Man Father” issue that I have ever heard. By the way you missed the meat of the Catholic explanation. You only used the first example. You missed this part:

"Jesus is not forbidding us to call men “fathers” who actually are such—either literally or spiritually. (See below on the apostolic example of spiritual fatherhood.) To refer to such people as fathers is only to acknowledge the truth, and Jesus is not against that. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood—or a particular kind or degree of fatherhood—to those who do not have it. …
This was also a temptation in the Jewish world of Jesus’ day, when famous rabbinical leaders, especially those who founded important schools, such as Hillel and Shammai, were highly exalted by their disciples. It is this elevation of an individual man—the formation of a “cult of personality” around him—of which Jesus is speaking when he warns against attributing to someone an undue role as master, father, or teacher.

He is not forbidding the perfunctory use of honorifics nor forbidding us to recognize that the person does have a role as a spiritual father and teacher. The example of his own apostles shows us that. …

The New Testament is filled with examples of and references to spiritual father-son and father-child relationships. Many people are not aware just how common these are, so it is worth quoting some of them here.

Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his child: “Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ” (1 Cor. 4:17); “To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (1 Tim. 1:2); “To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (2 Tim. 1:2).

He also referred to Timothy as his son: “This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare” (1 Tim 1:18); “You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus” (2 Tim. 2:1); “But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel” (Phil. 2:22).

Paul also referred to other of his converts in this way: “To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior” (Titus 1:4); “I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment” (Philem. 10). None of these men were Paul’s literal, biological sons. Rather, Paul is emphasizing his spiritual fatherhood with them."

THen the real meat of the article was completely overlooked by you>

"Perhaps the most pointed New Testament reference to the theology of the spiritual fatherhood of priests is Paul’s statement, “I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

Peter followed the same custom, referring to Mark as his son: “She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark” (1 Pet. 5:13). The apostles sometimes referred to entire churches under their care as their children. Paul writes, “Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their children” (2 Cor. 12:14); and, “My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!” (Gal. 4:19).

John said, “My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1); “No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth” (3 John 4). In fact, John also addresses men in his congregations as “fathers” (1 John 2:13–14).

Continued next post
 
Continuing

By referring to these people as their spiritual sons and spiritual children, Peter, Paul, and John imply their own roles as spiritual fathers. Since the Bible frequently speaks of this spiritual fatherhood, we Catholics acknowledge it and follow the custom of the apostles by calling priests “father.” Failure to acknowledge this is a failure to recognize and honor a great gift God has bestowed on the Church: the spiritual fatherhood of the priesthood.

Catholics know that as members of a parish, they have been committed to a priest’s spiritual care, thus they have great filial affection for priests and call them “father.” Priests, in turn, follow the apostles’ biblical example by referring to members of their flock as “my son” or “my child” (cf. Gal. 4:19; 1 Tim. 1:18; 2 Tim. 2:1; Philem. 10; 1 Pet. 5:13; 1 John 2:1; 3 John 4).

All of these passages were written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and they express the infallibly recorded truth that Christ’s ministers do have a role as spiritual fathers. Jesus is not against acknowledging that. It is he who gave these men their role as spiritual fathers, and it is his Holy Spirit who recorded this role for us in the pages of Scripture. To acknowledge spiritual fatherhood is to acknowledge the truth, and no amount of anti-Catholic grumbling will change that fact."
 
There does appear to be an apparent contradiction. Saying on one hand, we don’t know who will make it to heaven. God is the final judge. On the other hand, the Church cannonizes certain people as saints, and they are guaranteed heaven. How do they know for sure that Mother Teresa did not committ a mortal sin prior to her death, and it went unconfessed. I would put my money on the fact that she did not, and she is in heaven. However, isn’t God still the ultimate judge, regardless of whether she is cannonized as a saint or not? The Church is not the ultimate judge, God is.
God is the final judge. That is why there is a requirement of miracles before people are declared Saints. Those miracles are messages from God that the person is indeed in heaven. the church’s role is to validate that the miracles have occurred.
 
I am now confused.
ok lets unconfuse you
Weren’t you the person who said in the other thread that the reason you left the catholic church was because you went to a Baptist funeral for your friend and felt Joy that everyone knew he was going to heaven because he beleived in Jesus.
yes…
Now you are advocating against OSAS
I always was you just did not see what I was saying
and aligning with the Catholic belief that you must do good works to get to heaven.
not necessarily…I know what catholics believe …that is why I left the church but I do not believe in OSAS either.
Once you say that, then the logical extension is that you must always to those works, until you die. And therefore, there is no assurance of heaven.
I know that is what you believe…I do not and here is why…for the reason you are about to say
If you have just committed a mortal sin, you know that you are not (in a state of grace). But no one knows what the future holds for them so predicting that you will go to heaven is rather foolish.
agree 100% however …lets not talk about future
As for knowing your current salvation status, this is possible.
really?? ok we are now getting somewhere …it is what I have been trying to communicate all along 👍
If you have just been absolved of all your sins, you know that you are currently in the state of grace.
agree 100%

and if that is true, would I go to heaven …if not heaven then at least purgatory if I die at the precise moment I am in a state of grace?

in other words if I were to die right now affter confession in a state of grace …am I saved at this very moment? whereas my destination would be at least purgatory and then onto heaven?

please do not say anything about future…am I saved right now should I die right now in a state of grace?

Is there anyway I would or anyone would go to hell in a state of grace?

if no …that is salvation right …one would be saved at that moment only right?

anxiously awaiting your respnse

God bless

mpjw
 
I have now come to believe that the reason you are on the site is because you seek to validate your own choices.
sorry to say …not so Paul
It would be a disservice for us to tell you that separating yourself from the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic church was an acceptable choice.
I am not seeking your acceptance in that way…

I am here seeking the possIbility of all christians accepting each other for who they are and having a better understanding of who we all are in Christ.

“the battles” between us I am sure is giving mixed signals to the non christian world, in search for truth, who may be viewing these very threads.

do you agree?
 
ok lets unconfuse you

yes…

I always was you just did not see what I was saying

not necessarily…I know what catholics believe …that is why I left the church but I do not believe in OSAS either.

I know that is what you believe…I do not and here is why…for the reason you are about to say

agree 100% however …lets not talk about future

really?? ok we are now getting somewhere …it is what I have been trying to communicate all along 👍

agree 100%

and if that is true, would I go to heaven …if not heaven then at least purgatory if I die at the precise moment I am in a state of grace?

in other words if I were to die right now affter confession in a state of grace …am I saved at this very moment? whereas my destination would be at least purgatory and then onto heaven?

please do not say anything about future…am I saved right now should I die right now in a state of grace?

Is there anyway I would or anyone would go to hell in a state of grace?

if no …that is salvation right …one would be saved at that moment only right?

anxiously awaiting your respnse

God bless

mpjw
If you are in the state of grace when you die, you will go to heaven, although you might need time in purgatory on the way there to purge your sinful nature and bring you to true holiness. So yes, if you have been absolved of your sins through sacramental confession, you are in the state of grace until you commit mortal sin and fall from grace.
 
God is the final judge. That is why there is a requirement of miracles before people are declared Saints. Those miracles are messages from God that the person is indeed in heaven. the church’s role is to validate that the miracles have occurred.
Whether that is true or not, I don’t know. I do know there is no biblical support for that notion whatsoever.
 
If you are in the state of grace when you die, you will go to heaven, although you might need time in purgatory on the way there to purge your sinful nature and bring you to true holiness. So yes, if you have been absolved of your sins through sacramental confession, you are in the state of grace until you commit mortal sin and fall from grace.


Thank you Paul …BINGO 😃

Paul the only thing I do not believe about what you just said is purgatory.

I believe from this life on earth we either go to heaven or hell

but that is ok

The reason I am here is to let you know what you just said…
yes, if you have been absolved of your sins (and the only way to be forgiven and absolved of sin is) through (sincere contrite) sacramental confession, you are in the state of grace until you commit mortal sin and fall from grace. If you are in the state of grace when you die, you will go to heaven,
I 100% agree with you.

Paul **if **you were in a state of grace right now and were to die right now, you are also saved right now and will go to heaven that is …
until you commit mortal sin and fall from grace
then that sin would need to be confessed again for your soul to return to a state of grace

do you agree?

thank you Paul

God bless you
 
There does appear to be an apparent contradiction. Saying on one hand, we don’t know who will make it to heaven. God is the final judge. On the other hand, the Church cannonizes certain people as saints, and they are guaranteed heaven. How do they know for sure that Mother Teresa did not committ a mortal sin prior to her death, and it went unconfessed. I would put my money on the fact that she did not, and she is in heaven. However, isn’t God still the ultimate judge, regardless of whether she is cannonized as a saint or not? The Church is not the ultimate judge, God is.
The canonization of saints has to do with the infallibility of the Church. The Church does not err in its recognition of holiness,because it is guided by the Holy Spirit.
 
Paul c
God is the final judge. That is why there is a requirement of miracles before people are declared Saints. Those miracles are messages from God that the person is indeed in heaven. the church’s role is to validate that the miracles have occurred.
Correct. EDWARD JL seems unaware of scope of the infallibility conferred by Christ on Peter and his successors.

This EWTN answer clarifies the scope of papal infallibility:

**Answer by David Gregson on Nov-22-2002 (EWTN): **
You are correct in stating that the Pope exercises his charism of infallibility not only in dogmatic definitions issued, ex cathedra, as divinely revealed (of which there have been only two), but also in doctrines definitively proposed by him, also ex cathedra, which would include canonizations (that they are in fact Saints, enjoying the Beatific Vision in heaven), moral teachings (such as contained in Humanae vitae), and other doctrines he has taught as necessarily connected with truths divinely revealed, such as that priestly ordination is reserved to men. Further details on levels of certainty with which the teachings of the Magisterium (either the Pope alone, or in company with his Bishops) may be found in Summary of Categories of Belief.
 
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