Very upset please help

[WilT]

Hang in there Madlady, it really will all work out!

808Catholic and Hoosier Daddy – Why don’t one of you start a new topic. I would be very uncomfortable saying things AS IF they apply to Madlady – since this is her topic. Start a new topic about a theoretical unbaptized person married to a Catholic outside the Church and we can talk about this theoretical person and their situation. OK?

Fair request

 

[WilT]

Thankyou all for your very kind words.
Great news… hubby has agreed to marry me in our church and he even apologised! Im so happy and excited. Thankyou God. Xxx

:extrahappy::extrahappy::dancing: :clapping:

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

So one must be in a converted state of grace to be baptized?

You’re avoiding the question. I asked you:

A and B are living together without being married. A wants to be baptized. Should they change their living situation before A is baptized? Or are they just fine as things stand?

What would you say to A? Should they change their living situation or is everything OK?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

You’re avoiding the question. I asked you:

A and B are living together without being married. A wants to be baptized. Should they change their living situation before A is baptized? Or are they just fine as things stand?

What would you say to A? Should they change their living situation or is everything OK?

They should be baptized. And they should change their living situation.

Baptism is the gateway sacrament and the only way to clean original sin. If you withhold it you are withholding salvation.

The Pope has baptized the children of lesbians.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

They should be baptized. And they should change their living situation.

Baptism is the gateway sacrament and the only way to clean original sin. If you withhold it you are withholding salvation.

The Pope has baptized the children of lesbians.

Children are in a different situation than adults. Children can’t choose their parents or determine their parents’ actions.

For adults, these are the signs that someone is ready to move from the period of inquiry to the catechumenate (from RCIA 42):

An initial conversion and intention to change their lives and to enter into a relationship with God in Christ; there must be evidence of the first stirrings of repentance, a start to the practice of calling upon God in prayer, a sense of the Church, and some experience of the company and spirit of Christians through contact with a priest or with members of the community.

The catechumenate, which is to last at least a year, then prepares the adults so that they show these signs that they are ready for baptism (from RCIA 75):

1. A suitable catechesis is provided.
2. The catechumens learn to turn more readily to God in prayer, bear witness to the faith, keep their hopes set on Christ, follow supernatural inspiration in their deeds, and practice love of neighbor, even at the cost of self-renunciation.
3. Through liturgical rites they are strengthened by God’s blessing.
4. Catechumens learn how to work actively with others to spread the Gospel and build up the Church by the witness of their lives and by professing their faith.

The Church holds adults to a pretty high standard before she considers them ready for baptism.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Children are in a different situation than adults. Children can’t choose their parents or determine their parents’ actions.

For adults, these are the signs that someone is ready to move from the period of inquiry to the catechumenate (from RCIA 42):

An initial conversion and intention to change their lives and to enter into a relationship with God in Christ; there must be evidence of the first stirrings of repentance, a start to the practice of calling upon God in prayer, a sense of the Church, and some experience of the company and spirit of Christians through contact with a priest or with members of the community.

The catechumenate, which is to last at least a year, then prepares the adults so that they show these signs that they are ready for baptism (from RCIA 75):

1. A suitable catechesis is provided.
2. The catechumens learn to turn more readily to God in prayer, bear witness to the faith, keep their hopes set on Christ, follow supernatural inspiration in their deeds, and practice love of neighbor, even at the cost of self-renunciation.
3. Through liturgical rites they are strengthened by God’s blessing.
4. Catechumens learn how to work actively with others to spread the Gospel and build up the Church by the witness of their lives and by professing their faith.

The Church holds adults to a pretty high standard before she considers them ready for baptism.

I don’t think that says the person must eradicate all sin from their life. Why are adults held to a different standard?

The Pope must not be aware of these rules.
independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-says-he-would-baptise-aliens-9360632.html

All an alien has to do is ask. No clarifying of marital status.

He said Catholicism was a church of “open doors”, and that it was up to Christians to accept the Holy Spirit however “unthinkable” and “unimaginable” it appeared.

Describing how, according to the Bible, Peter was criticised by the Christians of Jerusalem for making contact with a community of “unclean” pagans, Francis said that at the time that too was “unthinkable”.

“If, for example, tomorrow an expedition of Martians came to us here and one said ‘I want to be baptised!’, what would happen?”

And Pope BXVI’s astronomer as well…

Speaking at the British Science Festival in 2010, one of then-Pope Benedict XVI’s astronomers said he would baptise an alien “if they asked”. While he accepted that the chances of ever getting such an opportunity were slim, Guy Consolmagno said: “Any entity – no matter how many tentacles it has – has a soul.”

Why in the world do we hold real people in need of real salvation to a different standard?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I thought you wanted to have a serious conversation about this. My mistake.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I thought you wanted to have a serious conversation about this. My mistake.

It is a serious conversation. The Pope Himself has started this dialogue and chosen this analogy. I assume one can see through the improbability of the alien aspect to the deeper conversation and theological principles that are being discussed.

This Pope has a different way of engaging but has a place at the table certainly by his Title and intellect.