Vicar says baptism register only has space for mother and father

[Netty1]

One mother is Church of England, the other is Catholic.

*Reverend George Gebauer told Aimi and Victoria Leggett that it would be ‘illegal’ for them both to appear as parents on one-year-old Alfie’s baptism certificate when he was asked to perform the ceremony, and told them they would have to name one member of the civil partnership as ‘godmother’.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2409755/Vicar-refused-baptise-lesbian-couple-Aimi-Victoria-Leggetts-son.html*

 

[Reepicheep]

“Who produce too much hormone”? Does he think people become gay because their glands are out of whack?

 

[NovusAugustus]

“Who produce too much hormone”? Does he think people become gay because their glands are out of whack?

That’s one of the theories. The psychologists have ruled out mental causes, so it seems likely there is something biological causing their abnormal attraction. One of the theories I have heard is improper release of some chemicals in the womb during the early stages of pregnancy.

As for the Vicar, he seems like the most sensible man in this whole situation. He offered to baptize the child if only they would give the name of the biological mother, but for some reason they refused! As he said, it’s clear that they are motivated by their own selfish reasons, not a desire to have the child baptized.

 

[SMGS127]

That’s one of the theories. The psychologists have ruled out mental causes, so it seems likely there is something biological causing their abnormal attraction. One of the theories I have heard is improper release of some chemicals in the womb during the early stages of pregnancy.

As for the Vicar, he seems like the most sensible man in this whole situation. He offered to baptize the child if only they would give the name of the biological mother, but for some reason they refused! As he said, it’s clear that they are motivated by their own selfish reasons, not a desire to have the child baptized.

That’s interesting, because I’ve heard the most common likelihood is epi-genes, which don’t really have anything specifically to do with hormones. But I definitely think that at the very minimum, the sexuality center [anyone who knows more neurobiology than me care to tell me which part that is?] of gay men’s brains failed to masculinize during embryology, and the sexuality center of lesbian’s brains masculinized by accident. I think that that’s also why gay men have a higher likelihood of feminine behavior in general (failure of other parts of the brain to masculinize), and vice versa for lesbians and masculine behavior. So I guess that likely would have to do with hormones to a degree. Though I dispute the vicar in that I highly doubt they continue to produce too much of the “wrong” hormone after birth, or else homosexuality would be almost detectable via blood test.

 

[NovusAugustus]

That’s interesting, because I’ve heard the most common likelihood is epi-genes, which don’t really have anything specifically to do with hormones. But I definitely think that at the very minimum, the sexuality center [anyone who knows more neurobiology than me care to tell me which part that is?] of gay men’s brains failed to masculinize during embryology, and the sexuality center of lesbian’s brains masculinized by accident. I think that that’s also why gay men have a higher likelihood of feminine behavior in general (failure of other parts of the brain to masculinize), and vice versa for lesbians and masculine behavior. So I guess that likely would have to do with hormones to a degree. Though I dispute the vicar in that I highly doubt they continue to produce too much of the “wrong” hormone after birth, or else homosexuality would be almost detectable via blood test.

Yes I have heard the same general ideas. It’s a shame there isn’t more detailed scholarship out there, but I think people are too afraid of the potential backlash from both fundamentalists and extremist homosexuals to try a detailed scientific study. Regardless, for Catholics, the issue remains the same: even if homosexuals are born with a sexual attraction for people of the same sex, they still have a duty to avoid sexual interaction with those people.

 

[KP3243]

The child is some man’s child, that is a fact.

 

[opus101]

The child is some man’s child, that is a fact.

My thoughts exactly. His name should be written in the space for “father”, since, in fact, he is the father.

 

[SMGS127]

My thoughts exactly. His name should be written in the space for “father”, since, in fact, he is the father.

Out of curiousity, do you think this should be the case in the instance of sperm donations? Obviously the conception this way is immoral, but it does happen. Let’s take a case of a donor who wasn’t anonymous, to make the exercise somewhat difficult to answer.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Lesbian couple to be listed as mums on baptism record

 

[VanSensei]

Lesbian couple to be listed as mums on baptism record

That isn’t so bad, because hey, at least there is a baptism of some kind that’s going to happen. It would be beyond terrible for a child to be denied baptism because their parents are in a type of sin.

 

[bsroufek]

St. Paul describes the cause of homosexuality as spiritual. Why do many of you reject that and instead believe in ‘scientific’ conjectures saying they were born that way, like Lady Gaga claims?

Since homosexuality is sin, God does not create people to be homosexuals.

 

[NovusAugustus]

St. Paul describes the cause of homosexuality as spiritual. Why do many of you reject that and instead believe in ‘scientific’ conjectures saying they were born that way, like Lady Gaga claims?

Since homosexuality is sin, God does not create people to be homosexuals.

Homosexuality is not a sin. Homosexual behavior–intercourse and courtship presumed to lead to it–is a sin.

You may be right–but many influential scientists agree that it is a biological problem. I am, however, interested in the verse where St. Paul discusses homosexuality. Could you direct me to it?

 

[SMGS127]

St. Paul describes the cause of homosexuality as spiritual. Why do many of you reject that and instead believe in ‘scientific’ conjectures saying they were born that way, like Lady Gaga claims?

Since homosexuality is sin, God does not create people to be homosexuals.

However, original sin does corrupt the body in many ways, including in embryo. Or would you argue that intersex people were created “between male and female” by God? So it’s entirely plausible that gay people could be biologically born that way from in-utero epigenetic and/or hormonal issues.

 

[Jessie5000]

St. Paul describes the cause of homosexuality as spiritual. Why do many of you reject that and instead believe in ‘scientific’ conjectures saying they were born that way, like Lady Gaga claims?

Since homosexuality is sin, God does not create people to be homosexuals.

Does this also mean that we, as Catholics, should have spent 500 years believing the earth was the centre of the universe because the Church disagreed with science? Well, even the church now thinks the earth is not the centre of the universe… Sometimes, science does inform the church to truth. Ask any priest…

 

[NovusAugustus]

St. Paul describes the cause of homosexuality as spiritual. Why do many of you reject that and instead believe in ‘scientific’ conjectures saying they were born that way, like Lady Gaga claims?

Since homosexuality is sin, God does not create people to be homosexuals.

“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.” --St. Thomas Aquinas

 

[Phemie]

My thoughts exactly. His name should be written in the space for “father”, since, in fact, he is the father.

I doubt the pastor would be willing to do that unless the father claimed paternity.

 

[livingwordunity]

Homosexuality is not a sin. Homosexual behavior–intercourse and courtship presumed to lead to it–is a sin.

You may be right–but many influential scientists agree that it is a biological problem. I am, however, interested in the verse where St. Paul discusses homosexuality. Could you direct me to it?

I’ll provide it.

“For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” - Romans 1:26-27 (RSV-CE)

“Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.” - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NAB)

 

[SMGS127]

I’ll provide it.

“For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” - Romans 1:26-27 (RSV-CE)

“Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.” - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NAB)

I think the poster was asking where he talks about SSAs as caused by “spiritual” reasons. Neither of these claim that.

 

[NovusAugustus]

“For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” - Romans 1:26-27 (RSV-CE)

“Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.” - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NAB)

Thanks. To the other poster though, I think these are still consistent with modern science. “God gave them up to dishonorable passions,” would seem to indicate that they lost control of their homosexual desires–just like adulterers lose control of their heterosexual desires.The second set of verses simply states that damnation is inevitable for those who persist in sin until death, with homosexual acts being one of those sins among others.

 

[Holly3278]

I know that they are not Catholic and neither is this vicar but the Catholic Church teaches that there must be a reasonable expectation that the child to be baptized will be raised and educated according to the teachings of the Faith. Obviously these “parents” were not going to raise this child as a Christian since they are living a very unchristian life themselves.