Video games that can mislead your faith

[Baguette]

Hello there, we all know video games have become mainstream.
And because it has gone mainstream there are lots of video game available on the market today.
Now have you guys ever seen any video game that mislead the interpretation of faith? Or those kind of video games that has anti-religion theme and silently told its audience religion is just some corrupted thing use to brainwash ,etc.
I heard the final fantasy series is quite anti religion. Can someone explain it to me why the FF franchise is anti religion?
Also, do you guys/gals think the assasin’s creed lore is also quite anti religion?
Because the lore said that every divine creature that existed is actually a mortal with divine artifact (check the staff of eden and apple of eden in the assasin’s creed wiki).
And anyone here played the so called masterpiece Persona 5?
That game and franchise (Shin Megami Tensei) is basically a middle finger to the Abrahamic Religion’s God. They potray God as an oppresing being that will make anyone who opposes him perish.
They also make satan/lucifer the “true savior of mankind” (what…???). They potray lucifer as someone who wants mankind to live free. To liberate mankind from the oppression of God. Sounds twisted right?
What do you think? Let’s discuss this!

 

[ErraticFaith]

If people have difficulty separating a fictional property from reality I’m not sure what to say really. Fantasy is exactly that and shouldn’t be limited by people’s inability to separate the two.

I don’t watch Lord of the Rings and suddenly worry that the world is being controlled by Sauron.

Nor do I play Street Fighter and think that I’m Cammy White.

If people are honestly having issues with this perhaps they need a shrink.

 

[Baguette]

Are you saying its okay for a game like persona to tell a story about God as the main antagonist and satan as the hero?
I do think its wrong, especially when angsty teenagers who doesn’t really understand their faith played it. They might even see the devil as the victim here and symphatize with him ,which well, we know won’t be any good.

 

[JamalChristophr]

Yeah, for sure. I don’t play much these days, however.

Another thing that bugs me are these hyper sexed up female characters, it really does encourage lust in men.

 

[Baguette]

Hahah yeah that too!
It’s not only in Japanese games the American made games are also getting more sexualized but it’s still mild compared to their Japanese counterpart, it’s like all female character they create appeals to certain fetish.
But there are some Japanese games that aren’t full of sexualized character which gave me some hope.

 

[Kei]

I hate it when they do that, portray God in this awful light or irreverent. I think there’s even a game where Jesus is a character alongside Buddha. It’s awful.
In a way it might be more exposure but I don’t think I’d be good making it.

Even in comics, there’s this character called lucifee morningstar, and guess what? He’s supposed to have helped defeat a character that is named after God’s Holy Name YHWH, and they portray this character as evil and all sorts of stuff. It’s terrible I say.

Obviously this is fiction. But it almost certainly would not get published if we made sure things were right for the faithful like we used to do back in the day when publishing things.

 

[Baguette]

Yep, that’s why I don’t like the persona and shin megami tensei franchise. They’re twisting the fact and trying to appeal to teens who have problem with their life.
One of my friend is a big fan of persona 5, he started to doubt if satan is truly evil, I think he might begin to symphatize with the devil. Welp, I pray every night to Jesus, hope that never happened.

 

[greenrangerx]

I heard the final fantasy series is quite anti religion. Can someone explain it to me why the FF franchise is anti religion?

I haven’t played every FF (I’ve played I, II, III, IV, VII, X, XII, XIII), but I haven’t experienced anything antireligious in the series, other than an apathetic character here and there. Granted, each game takes place on a different planet, so there isn’t really any connection to Christianity. The religions of those planets typically involve paganism, magic, or conversing with a “spirit world.” As long as the person knows that it is fantasy, there shouldn’t be any issues with playing it.

 

[ConsistantlyBaffled]

it’s not really christianity per se, but giant monotheisms that the japanese really don’t seem to like. any oppressive gods in the FF games are usually monsters (like Sin/Yevon from FFX) or some human using some ancient artifact or whatever (like the nethicite from FFXII)

and persona draws in gods from every pantheon imaginable, with norse, roman, and egyptian gods. the plot of persona 5 is that society is ruled by people who have more money and power, and that good people are always screwed over. the whole story hinges around the main characters rebelling with superpowers. the big bad guy isn’t the christian god; it’s the people’s collective sloth and their desire to turn their brains off and just follow the script. the persona games use the gods as symbols of certain traits in most instances when it comes to rebellion who else comes to mind than lucifer?

 

[Arwing]

I used to play games like SMT when my faith was much weaker. Admittedly there is some merit to them as entertainment. Anyway, things like that didn’t really seem to have an effect on my faith, but I’m beginning to think they did have at least some impact in that they desensitized me to the kind of irreverence Kei mentioned. I think this will tend to happen to those who believe but aren’t strong in their faith. Someone strong in faith on the other hand will likely recognize this sort of thing as disrespectful and nothing more than a waste of time.

I do find it a bit annoying how God and religion are generally portrayed in games, particularly in JRPGs. Some of these start off interestingly before ultimately devolving into the “church is evil and corrupt” played out trope. These probably aren’t games I’d say must be avoided at all cost (i.e. Final Fantasy, I wouldn’t have a problem playing them). I don’t think the creators necessarily have malicious intent with this, and I don’t think they’re generally targeting Christianity specifically, but it does get a little tiresome.

 

[CoffeeAndDonuts]

I recently started playing Mass Effect Andromeda and one of your shipmates has a dialogue tree that explores her faith as a scientist and how she sometimes faces backlash against other scientists, and if you wish you can agree with her, making the player character religious as well. Mass Effect 2 also had a very religious amphibian assassin and 3 had a super advanced AI wondering “Does this Unit have a soul?”

In Fallout 3 you come across a Catholic priest and a missionary, and in New Vegas there’s a whole DLC about Christianity via Mormonism as a redemptive path for a previous evil character. In Fallout 4 there’s the Chapel of All Faiths, so I guess like Unitarians, but the minister there is dressed like a Christian pastor and uses Christian language.

So maybe you can take a break from JRPGS and focus on Western ones maybe? It isn’t the medium of games that anti-religious, it’s the developers, and JRPGs are going to be made by Japanese people, who have a different religious background and may not treat the religion of foreigners with lots of respect.

 

[Rhubarb]

Video games tell stories. They aren’t documentaries or true-to-life. (at least the ones you mentioned) Their job isn’t to inform your faith. They’re meant to let you live out a goofy story on some alien world, fantasy world, or fantasy historical sci-fi world. A game where a character grapples with their faith in some made-up religion can still show some insights to people of any religion. You can relate to the character, you feel their plight. Maybe you learn something about religion and its connection to the world. It can be good for you even if it’s just made up symbols to tell a story.

Or maybe the character decides religion is false and God isn’t real. That doesn’t mean the game is advocating that. This character that hates God might be a villain, and we’re supposed to say “no, that’s wrong. This is a bad guy.” Not every aspect of a story has to be perfect good guys that you support in all facets of their life. With a right disposition, good discernment, and remembering that it’s all make-believe, you can find lessons in them.

Also I wouldn’t be too concerned about what Japanese games are telling you about religion. I doubt very much the Japanese writers have much of a care about what Christians do in their faith life. When they touch on religious subjects it’s usually in the Eastern traditions - that’s why a lot of their games and anime don’t translate well as they rely on themes symbols and tropes that are outside our cultural and faith traditions in the US.

 

[josh987654321]

Now have you guys ever seen any video game that mislead the interpretation of faith?

Yes. They are developed and made by fallible people, if I made a video game, I would paint Christianity and specifically Catholicism in a positive light if an opportunity presented itself, those who despise Christianity and Catholicism will no doubt do the same in their games and movies.

Or those kind of video games that has anti-religion theme and silently told its audience religion is just some corrupted thing use to brainwash ,etc.

Yup.

I heard the final fantasy series is quite anti religion.

Never played it.

Can someone explain it to me why the FF franchise is anti religion?

Because those developers who put anti-religion material in their games, are themselves anti-religion, and thus the heroes they create in the game will also be of the same leaning. Same with movies.

What do you think? Let’s discuss this!

The same approach we take to choosing movies to watch is the same approach I think we should take to choosing games to play.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I remember people saying that Pokémon was satanic, I didn’t believe them about that, I’m not sure I believe this about Final Fantasy. And I’m still going to play Pokémon even if people think it’s satanic, because it’s not whether they like that fact or not. I don’t even like Final Fantasy, I never got into it, I tried to play it just didn’t appeal to me. If you don’t like the video game series, for whatever reason, that’s fine, but also keep in mind with Final Fantasy, that the games are Japanese, it would be wise not to look at them through Western eyes, there aren’t a whole lot of Christians in Japan. I think if there is this kind of religious aspect to it, I don’t think they’re going out of their way to offend people, I think that’s just part of the story.

 

[Joe_5859]

If people have difficulty separating a fictional property from reality I’m not sure what to say really. Fantasy is exactly that and shouldn’t be limited by people’s inability to separate the two.

I don’t watch Lord of the Rings and suddenly worry that the world is being controlled by Sauron.

That’s a fair point, but I would distinguish between something like Lord of the Rings—or a video game like Zelda—and a game like the one described in the OP where Satan is the “good guy.”

I don’t (usually) have a problem with the spiritual themes in Zelda because they have no connection to reality. It’s an imaginary world with imaginary deities. It’s easy to relegate it as such.

But for a game to use actual Christian imagery in a subversive way is something different. And while I don’t doubt that a person who is strong in their faith could play such a game and recognize it for what it is, I think having more such popular media in the marketplace is not a good thing, nor is it helpful for building up the faith. There are those out there, particularly the young, who would recognize that it’s just a video game, but may still walk away thinking, “Yeah, the devil gets the short end of the stick. Why is he always the bad guy?”

As I’ve said before in other video game threads, I’m really more of a Nintendo game player. So I don’t generally encounter existential issues in any of the games I play. I’ve never played Final Fantasy or Assassins Creed or Bioshock or any of the other games mentioned.

 

[Baguette]

Do you know the Persona series is a spin off of the shin megami tensei series?
Check the lore and you’ll find it disgusting.

 

[Baguette]

Pokemon isn’t satanic, check Pope John Paul II’s statement about it.
From what I see it’s just some protestants making such issue to gain publicity.

 

[BurningSalamander]

Just made an account to bump this thread, after much meditation on wether I should reply or leave it as is. Don’t worry, I’m not a spammer! As a proof, I comment sometimes on the r/Catholicism subreddit. Also, be warned, this is a very long post, and contains rather disturbing/blasphemous content from Japanese video games. It’s the story of my own general culture as a gamer, my research and experiences with the whole God-killing issue in video games, which I find particularly annoying and disrespectful (if not downright screwed up). It’s also the story of how I once began to pray against this madness, to pray for it to stop, for the Japanese devs to be converted. And it’s the story of what happened next…

First things first. I’ve got to say that, sadly, this “God is evil and tyranicall, go kill him for free will!” plot is very common in current Japanese media. It is especially common in videogames, and especially in Japanese RPG. In fact, it’s so common that it’s become a cliche, and quite a few gamers (even atheists!) have started to get tired of the whole premise (a quick Google search for “JRPG kill God” should show quite a few examples of this).

Indeed, as OP has noticed, it was the main Shin Megami Tensei games that started this disrespectful trend (SMT is indeed where the Persona series is derived from). These were from the first generation of “monster battling” games, even before Pokémon, Digimon, or the more recent Yo-Kai Watch. Some even say that SMT started the genre, which would have horrible implications (namely the “Pokémon has satanic roots” conspiracy theories would be proven true). I don’t know how malicious or satanic the creators of SMT were, but I remember having read that what they were trying to accomplish was some sort of “edgy” distopian fantasy. The result was, pardon the expression, blasphemous as hell, and as consequence the games (originally Nintendo exclusives) never were released outside of Japan (thanks Nintendo of America!) until SMT3 Nocturne came for the Playstation 2. But for their time they were rather novel experiences, and they’re still considered all-time classics in JRPG circles.

 

[BurningSalamander]

[PART 2]

The mechanics of these games can only be described as “Satanic Pokémon”. Instead of with regular videogame “monsters” that you captured and trained, you battled using what the game called “demons”. The mechanic is that you encounter these “demons” among battle adversaries, and you can either fight them or (not kidding) try to make a pact with them, sometimes sacrificing less powerful “demons” as part of the deal. If you made a good pact with the “demon”, you can recruit it and summon it in later battles. The “demon” characters are based on gods, demons, spirits, and mythological beings from mankind’s major cultures, some of them even from fiction (Alice in Wonderland, the Cthulhu mythos), and quite a few from occult/esoteric traditions. This was explained by the game story happening in a pantheistic setting: at the beginning they have the true God (that the game calls “the Great Will”) grant humans the power of “Observation”, to make real anything and anyone they believed in. Thus here, in truly New Age fashion, humanity makes reality and its own “gods”, and mind rules over matter.

For the “distopian” part of this game universe, the creators decided no less than to have the ennemies be the “Order of the Messiah” (a.k.a. Christianity/Catholicism knockoff), and the final boss be “God”. This character indeed is supposed to represent (and mock) our personal, omniscient, omnipotent, monotheistic God (they went as far as calling the boss by His holiest name “YHWH”). In the game he is interpreted as a deformation of the “the Great Will” concept, which was brought into existence by humans like the other gods, and which has started to take over the other gods by turning them either into hideous demons (the game’s “demons” that you can make pacts with) or into his allies, often taking the shape of Catholic saints (for instance, the celtic godess Dana appeared in the game as a very sexualized “Black Madonna”, that I just refuse to post here or ever look at again). The player’s main ally was indeed the devil. They even made him all handsome and fair, and quite androgynous too, while making[“God” look like a creepy Wizard of Oz face instead! This is tough to swallow, but in some of these games you can even make the Archangels St Michael, St Gabriel and St Raphael fall from Heaven and join you as new “demons”, and in the last game (available for 3DS) the goal is to turn “God” himself into a demon before you kill him!

 

[BurningSalamander]

[PART 3]

It wasn’t only Final Fantasy, the fad of deicide started to appear in many other games, both Japanese and Western. It turned out that Xenogears was, after all, an incomplete game. Its developpers left Square Enix and became their own studio, Monolith Soft. They created a new series, Xenosaga, to make it into what Xenogears could have been. The French studio Ubisoft created Assassin’s Creed with its virulently anti-religion plot, perhaps inspired by this fad, or perhaps just because of the glorification of “Liberté” and Rationalism in French culture. A series called Bayonetta appeared, a series where you incarnated a witch in her quest to kill angels by summoning demons, and finally kill the world’s creator gods. Along came Breath of Fire III, Pandora’s Tower, The TALOS Principle, beautiful and imaginative games, but always with “God” as the final boss… And I’m convinced that the fact that in Pokémon Diamond and Pearl you can battle and capture Arceus, the creator Pokémon, is part of this too.

And when one speaks of Pokémon, one speaks of Nintendo. Here is where my prayers come into play. At some point in the mid-2000’s Nintendo acquired Monolith Soft, the creators of Xenogears and Xenosaga. The deal was that Monolith Soft would colaborate in the development Nintendo games, and in exchange, Monolith Soft could feature its own games as Nintendo franchises, and Nintendo would take care of their marketing. In retrospective, this is ironically similar to the gameplay in Shin Megami Tensei: Nintendo found itself with a demon, made a pact with it, and now that demon was one of its more powerful organs. Monolith Soft collaborated in most of the major Nintendo titles: Mario, Zelda, Animal Crossing,… and started anew with a new series, Xenoblade Chronicles.

And indeed, in the first game that they released, the final boss was Zanza, a God figure.

And indeed, Nintendo put the game’s main character, Shulk, who wished for “a world without gods” at the end of the game, in Super Smash Bros as a playable character. And they made Bayonetta a DLC character for the same game. With these move Nintendo ensured that both franchises had great publicity, and generated relatively large fanbases. This is also how I learnt about the prevailing themes of deicide in JRPG’s, by looking up the new Smash Bros characters on the Internet. I wasn’t that religious at the time, but I was nevertheless devastated to learn all of this.

Selfish rant: This post isn’t over. As a new user, I can’t post the rest of my post (limited to 3 posts in a row). Could somebody please fix it so that I can keep posting my wall of text? I promise it’s not that long!