D
dknight
Guest
I’ve been going about this all wrong. I no longer think whether or not God the Father had sexual relations with Mary is the issue. The real issue is whether or not such a belief is part of LDS doctrine and what constitutes LDS doctrine.
What is official LDS doctrine? Can something be considered doctrine if any Latter-Day Saint anywhere believes it? No. Is something official doctrine just because a General Authority said it or believed it.? No. Typically, critics insist that the Latter-day Saints must defend everything that Joseph Smith or Brigham Young or any other General Authority ever said as doctrine. This simply is not so.
There is a process by which LDS determine what binding doctrine is. It must be presented to the membership in general conference to receive a sustaining vote. It is that sustaining vote, by the individual members, that makes something officially binding upon members as the doctrine of the Church.
For example, when Wilford Woodruff, third President of the church, committed the Latter-day Saints to cease the practice of plural marriage; his official declaration was submitted to the Sixtieth Semiannual General Conference of the church on October 6, 1890. It was accepted by unanimous vote as authoritative and binding. It was that vote which made the document, now recorded in D&C as Official Declaration 1, official. It should be noted that a unanimous vote is not necessary. Those who dissent are asked to explain why they feel the way they do and consideration is given as to whether or not there is merit to their objection.
As B.H. Roberts said, “It is not sufficient to quote sayings purported to come from Joseph Smith or Brigham Young upon matters of doctrine. Our own people also need instruction and correction in respect of this. It is common to hear some of our older brethren say, “But I heard Brother Joseph myself say so,” or “Brother Brigham preached it; I heard him.” But that is not the question. The question is has God said it? Was the prophet speaking officially? . . .
As to the printed discourses of even leading brethren, the same principle holds. They do not constitute the court of ultimate appeal on doctrine. They may be very useful in the way of elucidation and are very generally good and sound in doctrine, but they are not the ultimate sources of the doctrines of the Church, and are not binding upon the Church. The rule in that respect is–What God has spoken, and what has been accepted by the Church as the word of God, by that, and that only, are we bound in doctrine.”
Of course, it doesn’t help that some overly enthusiastic LDS don’t make the distinction between the personal opinions/beliefs/speculations of past and current leaders and writers and what has been canonized as official, binding doctrine.
Some might ask, why doesn’t church leadership just come out and say point blank that God the Father didn’t have sex with Mary? First, since it isn’t official church doctrine, why should they bother? Second, even if they did, who out there actually thinks that critics of the LDS church will respond to such a renunciation by saying, “Oh! That clears up everything! Sorry we were mistaken about you all these years!” I think the reaction would be more like, "But said and the cycle begins all over again! Still, some out there might be more charitable. For that, I declare you a beautiful gem!
In regards to what LDS doctrine is: What a person, whether they be LDS (General Authority or otherwise) or non-LDS, believes about the conception of Jesus is irrelevant. What a person thinks about the process by which official doctrine is established is irrelevant. The LDS church has the right to define what constitutes its official doctrine and how official doctrine is determined.
Similarly, the Catholic church has the right to determine what is its official doctrine and how doctrine is determined. I don’t really know much about that and would love to have one my Catholic friends out there enlighten me as to the process.
There are a lot of things in the Catholic church with which I disagree. Still, when I encounter someone saying something about the Catholic church and what it believes, I want to know what the Catechism has to say about it. I want to know what Catholics themselves have to say about it. What is the official position? Just because a Catholic (deacon, priest, bishop, cardinal, etc) said it, I don’t assume it’s official. Please understand, I’m not picking on the Catholic church. This is a Catholic forum so it makes sense to use it for comparison when possible. I promise I love you guys!!
What is official LDS doctrine? Can something be considered doctrine if any Latter-Day Saint anywhere believes it? No. Is something official doctrine just because a General Authority said it or believed it.? No. Typically, critics insist that the Latter-day Saints must defend everything that Joseph Smith or Brigham Young or any other General Authority ever said as doctrine. This simply is not so.
There is a process by which LDS determine what binding doctrine is. It must be presented to the membership in general conference to receive a sustaining vote. It is that sustaining vote, by the individual members, that makes something officially binding upon members as the doctrine of the Church.
For example, when Wilford Woodruff, third President of the church, committed the Latter-day Saints to cease the practice of plural marriage; his official declaration was submitted to the Sixtieth Semiannual General Conference of the church on October 6, 1890. It was accepted by unanimous vote as authoritative and binding. It was that vote which made the document, now recorded in D&C as Official Declaration 1, official. It should be noted that a unanimous vote is not necessary. Those who dissent are asked to explain why they feel the way they do and consideration is given as to whether or not there is merit to their objection.
As B.H. Roberts said, “It is not sufficient to quote sayings purported to come from Joseph Smith or Brigham Young upon matters of doctrine. Our own people also need instruction and correction in respect of this. It is common to hear some of our older brethren say, “But I heard Brother Joseph myself say so,” or “Brother Brigham preached it; I heard him.” But that is not the question. The question is has God said it? Was the prophet speaking officially? . . .
As to the printed discourses of even leading brethren, the same principle holds. They do not constitute the court of ultimate appeal on doctrine. They may be very useful in the way of elucidation and are very generally good and sound in doctrine, but they are not the ultimate sources of the doctrines of the Church, and are not binding upon the Church. The rule in that respect is–What God has spoken, and what has been accepted by the Church as the word of God, by that, and that only, are we bound in doctrine.”
Of course, it doesn’t help that some overly enthusiastic LDS don’t make the distinction between the personal opinions/beliefs/speculations of past and current leaders and writers and what has been canonized as official, binding doctrine.
Some might ask, why doesn’t church leadership just come out and say point blank that God the Father didn’t have sex with Mary? First, since it isn’t official church doctrine, why should they bother? Second, even if they did, who out there actually thinks that critics of the LDS church will respond to such a renunciation by saying, “Oh! That clears up everything! Sorry we were mistaken about you all these years!” I think the reaction would be more like, "But said and the cycle begins all over again! Still, some out there might be more charitable. For that, I declare you a beautiful gem!
In regards to what LDS doctrine is: What a person, whether they be LDS (General Authority or otherwise) or non-LDS, believes about the conception of Jesus is irrelevant. What a person thinks about the process by which official doctrine is established is irrelevant. The LDS church has the right to define what constitutes its official doctrine and how official doctrine is determined.
Similarly, the Catholic church has the right to determine what is its official doctrine and how doctrine is determined. I don’t really know much about that and would love to have one my Catholic friends out there enlighten me as to the process.
There are a lot of things in the Catholic church with which I disagree. Still, when I encounter someone saying something about the Catholic church and what it believes, I want to know what the Catechism has to say about it. I want to know what Catholics themselves have to say about it. What is the official position? Just because a Catholic (deacon, priest, bishop, cardinal, etc) said it, I don’t assume it’s official. Please understand, I’m not picking on the Catholic church. This is a Catholic forum so it makes sense to use it for comparison when possible. I promise I love you guys!!
