Views on Mormonism?

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Marie,

Thank you for sharing your experience about your grandparents…only the Lord can judge…and from the outside it looks so, but the Lord alone can see hearts…Pray for your grandparents by committing them to the Lord…
 
Marie,
The LDS church is especially horrific for women. Their husbands - not Christ - call them forth on Resurrection Day. Women are made to go through their husbands for any kind of contact with God. I love and respect my husband, but how terrible would it be to believe that God didn’t really want to have anything to do with me? That he’d only listen to my prayers if they were repeated by my husband’s lips?
I had not ever really thought about the ramifications for women in Mormonism. Wow. Just wow! :gopray2:

That is truly awful. How can anyone think that God does not love the women? He created woman. Jesus was incarnated because of a woman.
 
A Mormon apostle wrote that the Catholic Church was the “Great and abominable Church”. … When I was a missionary, I taught that Catholic Church was evil (as I was instructed to teach).

I believe that stance has softened. When Pope Benedict came to the USA, two LDS Apostles travelled to a special meeting the Pope called to hear him speak.
TexanKnight,

Bruce R McConkie wasn’t an apostle at the time of the writing and printing of Mormon Doctrine that you would probably be referring to.

If you were “instructed” in that way, then it must have been by either your own mission president who may have had some kind of personal feelings that he passed on to missionaries, or by your peers, for it wasn’t in the instructions you were given to read and study.
 
Marie,

I had not ever really thought about the ramifications for women in Mormonism. Wow. Just wow! :gopray2:

That is truly awful. How can anyone think that God does not love the women? He created woman. Jesus was incarnated because of a woman.
Miriam,

As Marie pointed out, what she wrote was completely untrue as compared with what Latter-day Saints actually do believe. If you read what she wrote, she noted she would be challenged that she is “misinformed” and she is correct that she has either drawn wrong conclusions or has been deliberately misinformed.
 
Which translation of the Bible did the Apostles use, and what books were included in it?
Scipio337,

If you will read Acts 8:27-39 and 2 Corinthians 3:3 and 1 Corinthians 13, you will find a glimpse of what I meant by “Biblical Christianity”. Biblical Christianity did indeed reference back to the writings of the prophets in what we now know as the Old Testament and its many prophecies about the Messiah, the promised Anointed One, the Christ child who is Emanuel–God with us.

Biblical Christianity also emphasized “written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.” The apostles didn’t need a “translation” of what we call the Bible to have the gospel written in their hearts, and they showed that in their lives every day by how they lived, and taught the saints to live that same way, to be a “living epistle” by their actions and conversation.
 
I frequented an informal young adult study group hosted by the Jesuits for several years. One was a Prof of Moral Theology. Fr. (couple PHD’s or so, specialty was moral theology) got to discussing Mormonism. Essentially, he said it was a PARODY of Catholicism - a hierarchical structure, a “priesthood”, Eucharist - “sacrament” etc.
Obviously Mormons use a different terminology than mainstream Christianity.

Do prospective converts:
know they will become Gods & inhabit their own planet with a wife?
know Jesus & Satan are “brothers”, Council of the “Gods”, God evolved…
TACTIC why missionaries don’t divulge this; Common pattern in sects, new agers, cults, johnny-come-lately’s on the religious scene don’t divulge definitions up front; not until one is INITIATED (turn the heat up on the frog in the pot)

When discover in over their head & try to leave are threatened with hell, OUTER DARKNESS etc. & recipients of the worst of all tactics: SHUNNING - from spouse, children, relatives, friends, business associates LOSE everything

SHUNNING is PSYCHOLOGICALLY DAMAGING & OPPOSITE of GREATEST COMMANDMENT to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, clearly very un-christian-like. There are psych conferences shrinks hold in USA - share info, learn to deal with patients traumatized by groups that use this humiliating, brutal practice.

A GREAT PARADOX & BRILLIANCE in CATHOLICISM (see Matthew Kelley CD’s) when convert to CATHOLICISM, GAIN everything: The Way, The Truth, The Life in Jesus Christ & that is EVERYTHING

St. Paul: 1 Head, 1 Body, 1 Bridegroom, 1 Bride, when one suffers, we all suffer; when one rejoices, we all rejoice; 1 Lord, 1 Church.
 
pepmom,
so your priest highlighted the parallels between the Catholic Church, LDS, and most Protestant churches. No suprise there since all profess to be Christian.

On your other comments, the wrongness astounds me - why are you so bitter against the LDS?

Matthew 7:3-5*
“And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?* Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?* Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.”*

“Serve the Lord, and try not to find fault with each other.* Live so that you will not have any fault to find with yourselves, and never mind the faults of your brethren, for each person has enough of his own to attend to”* (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 280).
 
~If you will read Acts 8:27-39 and 2 Corinthians 3:3 and 1 Corinthians 13, you will find a glimpse of what I meant by “Biblical Christianity”. Biblical Christianity did indeed reference back to the writings of the prophets in what we now know as the Old Testament and its many prophecies about the Messiah~

Biblical Christianity also emphasized “written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.” The apostles didn’t need a “translation” of what we call the Bible to have the gospel written in their hearts, and they showed that in their lives every day by how they lived, and taught the saints to live that same way, to be a “living epistle” by their actions and conversation.
In context:Acts 8:27 And rising up, he went. And behold a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch, of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge over all her treasures, had come to Jerusalem to adore. 28 And he was returning, sitting in his chariot, and reading Isaias the prophet. 29 And the Spirit said to Philip: Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaias. And he said:* Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest?**

31 Who said: And how can I, unless some man shew me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32 And the place of the scripture which he was reading was this: He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb without voice before his shearer, so openeth he not his mouth. 33 In humility his judgment was taken away. His generation who shall declare, for his life shall be taken from the earth? 34 And the eunuch answering Philip, said: I beseech thee, of whom doth the prophet speak this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip, opening his mouth, and beginning at this scripture, preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came to a certain water; and the eunuch said: See, here is water: what doth hinder me from being baptized? 37 And Philip said: If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest. And he answering, said: I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still; and they went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch: and he baptized him.*
Obviously, they were persnickety about who they Baptized, even then. They didn’t Baptize anyone unless they were truly ready to be Baptized, after being diligently taught the full meaning of it all. Philip knew the correct interpretation of those prophecies, so he explained how they applied to Jesus. After learning the truth, the eunuch was ready to be Baptized because he was sure that Philip was right.
*2 Corinthians 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? Or do we need (as some do) epistles of commendation to you, or from you? 2 You are our epistle, written in our hearts, which is known and read by all men: 3 Being manifested, that you are the epistle of Christ, ministered by us, and written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in the fleshly tables of the heart. 4 And such confidence we have, through Christ, towards God. 5 Not that we are sufficient to think any thing of ourselves, as of ourselves: but our sufficiency is from God.

6 Who also hath made us fit ministers of the new testament, not in the letter, but in the spirit. For the letter killeth, but the spirit quickeneth.*
Paul was telling them that they were straying from what they had already been taught because they were acting like the Pharisees, and paying more attention to the literal words while not understanding the true meaning behind those words. They were very much like Bible-thumpers today, that pride themselves in knowing many Bible passages by heart, but they’re completely clueless about it’s true interpretation because they depend on their own intellect to interpret it, instead of seeing and understanding it with their heart, and living it. Doesn’t that sound familiar to you?
*1 Corinthians 1:11 For it hath been signified unto me, my brethren, of you, by them that are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith: I indeed am of Paul; and I am of Apollo; and I am of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul then crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I give God thanks, that I baptized none of you but Crispus and Caius; 15 Lest any should say that you were baptized in my name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanus; besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not in wisdom of speech, lest the cross of Christ should be made void. 18 For the word of the cross, to them indeed that perish, is foolishness; but to them that are saved, that is, to us, it is the power of God.*
In this passage he was reiterating that it didn’t matter which of the Disciples or Apostles was teaching them, because they were all teaching them the same Word of God, Jesus Christ, as they had been taught by Him. They were all part of the one body, the one and only Church of Jesus Christ, that was established by Him. As long as they listened to what they had been taught by any of them, they would remain in the Grace of God and would always be on sure footing, because their teachings were built upon the Rock of Christ.
 
@Pepband Mom:
That’s something I also see in Mormonism. It’s the ‘negative reinforcement’ that you can only be ‘happy’ by following exactly what the LDS church teaches you. The better you follow the rules, the more ‘worthy’ you are. But, their eternal punishment for not conforming, is the idea that you’ll never be able to achieve ‘exaltation’ if you fail in any way to meet their strict standards of perfection (as opposed to God’s standards). Along with that, you’ll never even be able to be with your own family in the ‘celestial kingdom’. Instead, you’ll be some kind of personal slave to a ‘worthy Mormon’ that has achieved exaltation. In the worst case scenario, you’ll be banished to the ‘outer darkness’, where I assume there will be absolutely no chance for any kind of happiness. All because you didn’t want to follow Joseph Smith’s ‘plan of salvation’, by jumping through all of his proverbial ‘hoops’. For a religion that’s supposed to be so concerned about our ‘free agency’, they certainly stomp all over your personal freedom to choose your own path.

In Mormonism, there’s really only one path considered to be ‘acceptable’, so there’s really no choice for anyone, at all (that sounds a lot more like “Satan’s plan” to me). Even though they claim that you’re free to choose to follow it or not, they clearly tell you that if you don’t measure up, you’ll be a huge disappointment, and an outcast, to your entire family, not only in this world, but forever. That’s why Mormons have such a hard time leaving their church. If they do, they know they’ll always be looked down upon and shunned by their whole family for being ‘unworthy’, as well as by all of their LDS friends. That’s got to be a tough thing for them to have to deal with, since their whole ‘community’ is all they have that seems to give them any sense of self worth, whatsoever.

Even though most Protestants and Mormons seem to think Catholics are scared into keeping on the straight and narrow path because of our horrible fear of hell, I think most of those of us who are well informed about the Faith, are much more motivated by the rewards of Heaven than anything else. The deep peace of soul that comes from practicing our Faith is very hard to explain to those that have never had that kind of spiritual consolation. The more we practice it, the holier we become and the closer we get to God. The closer we get to God, the more He fills us with that deep inner peace and love, by His sanctifying grace. The one thing that gives us that grace, more than anything else, is participating in the Holy Eucharist at Mass. There’s nothing in the world that can ever compare to that spiritual experience, where we’re both physically and spiritually joined together with, and nourished by, the Body & Blood, Soul & Divinity of Jesus Christ. It’s the only means in existence of attaining any kind of real share in Christ’s Divinity (sorry Mormons). I really feel sorry for all non-Catholics that can’t understand the real significance of it. (I also feel sorry for the many Catholics that don’t understand it well enough, either.)

If we’re really serious about it, we can quickly get to the point of not wanting to commit even the smallest sin, because it interrupts our inner peace. It’s certainly not because our fear of hell kicks in, but because we know that when we sin, we’re really hurting God as much as we’re hurting ourselves. We already know that He loves us on a personal level, because He really is our Father in Heaven. He always wants to make us happy, so we want to do whatever we can to make Him happy, which is to continue to grow in our love for Him. That’s really why we avoid sin, because it gets between us and God, and separates us from His love. It’s that mutual, unconditional love, that we only get a small taste of in this world, that we long to receive in a much greater degree in Heaven. Eventually, our goal is to become completely submerged in that eternal love of God. We also know that we’ll be forever joined with Him, as well as with all of our family and the entire Christian community, throughout eternity. That’s what the real ‘Communion of Saints’ is all about. It’s that eternal bond that holds us all together in Christ, both in this world and in the next.

It’s a totally different perspective from the way Mormons see our ‘progression’ toward perfection in this world, and in what we’ll be able to attain and do in the afterlife. Personally, I don’t see anything boring about being able to be together with everyone we really love, forever. As it is, there’s never enough time to visit and do the things we’d like to do with all of the people that we love, while we’re here on earth. But in Heaven, there won’t be any more constraints of time or space. We’ll all be surrounded by everyone that we love, whenever we want to be with them. We’ll also be able to do everything that we never had time, or the opportunity, to do with them in this life.

I don’t know about anyone else, but that sounds a lot more appealing to me than spending eternity watching my Hubby ‘creating worlds’, while I just sit back, shut up, and spit out billions of ‘spirit children’ to worship him on some new planet, far, far away from anyone I’ve ever loved that’s outside of my own immediate family. Don’t get me wrong, I really love my Hubby and my kids, but, that just sounds like a completely boring and lonely kind of ‘hell’ more than Heaven, to me. But, ‘to each his own’, as my parents used to say. I guess it all boils down to what we see as being the most important things in life, and what really makes us happy. Personally, I don’t see anything in Mormonism that could ever make me happy, either in this world or in the next. None of it sounds like ‘fun’ to me, at all. I also don’t see any evidence that it will bring anyone closer to God, that’s for sure. JMHO 🤷

Sorry about the GWoT. 😊
 
TexanKnight,

Bruce R McConkie wasn’t an apostle at the time of the writing and printing of Mormon Doctrine that you would probably be referring to.

If you were “instructed” in that way, then it must have been by either your own mission president who may have had some kind of personal feelings that he passed on to missionaries, or by your peers, for it wasn’t in the instructions you were given to read and study.
It matters not that he was an Apostle at the time he wrote it. That makes it even worse: that a Church would make an Apostle out of someone who felt that way.

And no, it was what I was taught even prior to my mission, supported by the temple ceremonies.
 
At the end of the day, after all the whittling is done, we are still left with the same facts. mormonism is a false religion, invented by a false and dishonest “prophet”, perpetuated by deception and founded on the lie of some sort of “Great Apostacy.” My beef with mormonism is not it’s fundamental wrongness, but instead with it’s basic dishonesty. It is based on one man’s fantasies and lust for power and purveyed by deception. Full disclosure by “missionaries” is not practiced and there is no permanent doctrine, but instead an ever-changing cloud of “revelations” that are tailored to the needs of the moment. If I sold cars like mormons sell religion, I would be jailed. If mormons and mormon authorities are doing this unknowingly, then they certainly deserve our prayers.
 
Marie…

What you shared about your grandparents…were you sharing from what others have said? or is it what you personally witnessed?

The Mormons here are now invalidating this woman’s statement…and we are not sure from her ending comment as Parker pointed out, as to qualify her statements. Did she report what she had actually observed growing up with her grandparents or is it what she heard about regarding Mormon practices.

The same can be said towards the Mormons…You prefer to follow one man, who created a new belief system that is not based on historical Judeo-Christianity – eating the forbidden fruit God told Adam not to eat, but a man made cult while invalidating 5,600 of documented history, and condemning Christianity by labelling it corrupt.

Why should we believe Joseph Smith’s ideas and practices who was no witness to Jesus Christ or the Apostles???
 
Further, we, as Catholics, claim to be the true Church. Joseph Smith calls us all liars.

“All men are liars who say they are of the true Church without the revelations of Jesus Christ and the Priesthood of Melchisedek, which is after the order of the Son of God.” History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473-479

Not trying to offend, just trying to put your comments into perspective
 
pepmom,
so your priest highlighted the parallels between the Catholic Church, LDS, and most Protestant churches. No suprise there since all profess to be Christian.

On your other comments, the wrongness astounds me - why are you so bitter against the LDS?

Matthew 7:3-5*
“And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?* Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?* Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.”*

“Serve the Lord, and try not to find fault with each other.* Live so that you will not have any fault to find with yourselves, and never mind the faults of your brethren, for each person has enough of his own to attend to”* (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 280).
It’s really ironic that you, and Brigham Young, seem to be under the impression that we’re never supposed to tell our friends and relatives when we believe they’re doing something very wrong, or living in serious sin, for the sake of their souls. Would you ever tell your children that they were doing something seriously wrong, or would you just let them make their own choices so as not to interfere with their ‘free agency’? Do you also think Jesus should have taken the beam out of His own eye, when He clearly told the Pharisees that they were ‘hypocrites’, and a ‘den of vipers’, because they didn’t practice what they preached?

Maybe you should have studied your Catholic Faith a little better than you did, so you could understand your own hypocrisy a bit better than you do.
 
At the end of the day, after all the whittling is done, we are still left with the same facts. mormonism is a false religion, invented by a false and dishonest “prophet”, perpetuated by deception and founded on the lie of some sort of “Great Apostacy.” My beef with mormonism is not it’s fundamental wrongness, but instead with it’s basic dishonesty.
This is my perfsonal feeling too. I don’t talk back to Hynduism, Buddisth, and in the Christianity realm I don’t feel to argue with Protestant or to a lesser degree with Catholics (I am Eastern Orthodox).

When you study mormonism, not from an anti-mormon site, but getting information from historical account, historical registers and so on it is absurd they actually keep choosein to believe to JS. If they don’t know anything about him it is already difficult to accept, but when they know who he was, that he changed the history of the so called first vision many times, that whatever he does there is always something hiden something not right and all the time he says it is God, then that he was running to be president of the United States: no deeply religious man in any religion (not sects) ever put himself in this kind of social-political ambition field.
He created even a bank!
They cannot see that a person converted to Christ has already everything. This is what St. Paul was talking about when he said to remain in the same condition when we had our conversion.

Let’s leave alone that even for his death they had to make it appear more christian then it was, their (LDS) organization completely coverd the thing that he had a gun with him and that he shot three people before dying why? Because they want to make him be like it was a martyr. Let’s leave alone massonery, that to justify JS, they (LDS) say their ritual comes from Salomon temple, something that any very deep knower of the history of massonery will absolutely deny.
Yes I feel that mormon just to justify their nice life, since it is full of good classic values, prefer to deny everything and keep the path of basic dishonesty. Of course not counsciusly admitted.
 
no one has ever been able to tell me if they are Christian or not. So I don’t really have an opinion. I have met a couple of wonderful mormon peop;le though.
 
no one has ever been able to tell me if they are Christian or not. So I don’t really have an opinion. I have met a couple of wonderful mormon peop;le though.
Nobody ever said they are generally good people and also JW are!

They are not considered Christians by Catholics, by Orthodox, by Protestants…
So depends if you accept that one can freely saying himself a christian just because he believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God… even Satan knows He is the Son of God.

And even in this affirmation said from mormons we have to be carefull since for them Jesus is the son of the the God of our universe…
Not of the only God. They say only God…only for us…limited of our universe. This is what they intend when they say the only God. If you don’t believe just ask them.
 
It matters not that he was an Apostle at the time he wrote it. That makes it even worse: that a Church would make an Apostle out of someone who felt that way.

TexanKnight,

You had the opportunity to read the Book of Mormon and the book of Revelation and figure out for yourself what the “great and abominable church” was through the symbolism involved. I’ve done that, and it’s not Catholicism. It has to do with what people do with religion and with their loyalties and priorities in life. It has to do with whether they love God with all their heart, might, mind and strength, or love other things and get pulled away by those other things into paths that lead away from the living Christ and from sincere repentance day by day.
 
In reference to Tony about the Catholic Church having priests of the order of Melchizedek,
well, it is true.

At the time of the Passover, the blood of lambs was sprinkled on the doors…the ransom of Israel from Egypt and slavery.

Christ, our paschal lamb, shed his blood to free us from sin.’ 1 Cor 5:7-8

When the Chosen People were in the desert, and Moses went up to Mt Sinai, they began to build a golden calf…all Jewish men were priests. But Moses came down and saw the abandonment of faith and fidelity to the One True God, and in essence, in that threw the tablets to the ground breaking them. The only tribe faithful was the Levites.

Moses was of the tribe of Levites.

King David himself did not find legitimacy in the Mosaic covenant and the Levite priesthood to validate his kingdom. In Psalm 110, David links his royal line to the priest-kingship of Melchizedek.

The Letter to Hebrews notes that even the Levites considered the superiority of Melchizedek. Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, on behalf of ALL his descendents, including the Levites and all priestly descendents–not Aaronic.

Melchizedek brought gifts of bread and wine, contrary to the use of blood. Melchizedek had no beginning and end. The Sacred Scriptures do not call him a magician…who had no death…but simply say nothing more.

Levite priests had a beginning and end. Melchizedek had no beginning, no end.

Only the Levites were to offer sacrifices in the wilderness and in the temple and the furnishings of the temple. Levites who were direct descendents of Aaron were appointed priests, and received assistance from their brother Levites. Any other who attempted to be a priest, died. And Levite priests had a distinct beginning and end, starting at age 30 and ending at age 50.

To be a priest, the priest had to prove his genealogy from his mother and father, and other relatives coming from the Levites. After the Babylonian Exile, those Levite priests who returned but could not prove their genealogy, could not serve as priestss.

However, Melchizedek was a priest not because of genealogy of mother or father, but of a mysterious and special relationship with God, a priest forever…meaning a lifelong gift from God. King David’s son Solomon was of the order of Melchizedek, offering sacrifices when he became king.

Jesus Christ is of the priesthood of Melchizedek and King David. (Mt 1:1; 22-41-46)

Jesus Christ is priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek, (Heb 5:8-10). 'While Jesus offered Himself ‘once and for all’ (Heb 7:27), his one sacrifice has everlasting quality, for he ‘holds his priesthood permanently’, and therefore 'always lives to make intercession for us. (Heb 7:24-25).

At the Ascension, Jesus enters the heavenly sanctuary, present with the Heavenly Father, presenting Him the glorified body, blood, soul and divinity of his Self-Sacrifice (Heb 9:23-24).

When Jesus enters into the heavenly sanctuary, he is entering into the very essence of God Himself, I AM WHO AM. This sanctuary is the everlasting Offering and continues forever. This transcendence has no time or boundary and this sanctuary is where heaven and earth intersect…the Church through the Holy Sacrifice of Mass…the Daily Sacrifice as atonement for sin…empowering the Church on earth both to re-present and to partake of Christ’s Self Sacrifice…under the sacramental form of bread and wine…as Melchizedek first offered as gifts to Abraham.

Good teaching from ‘Worthy is the Lamb’, by Thomas J Nash…on EWTN this past year explaining the Biblical roots of the Mass…
 
Further, we, as Catholics, claim to be the true Church. Joseph Smith calls us all liars.

“All men are liars who say they are of the true Church without the revelations of Jesus Christ and the Priesthood of Melchisedek, which is after the order of the Son of God.” History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473-479

Not trying to offend, just trying to put your comments into perspective
TexanKnight,

He said “without the revelations of Jesus Christ”, yes. That is completely supported by New Testament scripture over and over again.

The New Testament also supports the reality of there being a “priesthood of Melchizedek” that is different than the Levitical priesthood which was the officiating priesthood for the law of sacrifice. The law of sacrifice was fulfilled in Christ, and Christ is the Great High Priest who made the great and last sacrifice. Paul explains that the Savior held the Melchizedek priesthood, as did Melchizedek, as did Abraham. And it is indeed the priesthood after the order of the Son of God, whereas the Levitical priesthood was a preparatory priesthood for the outward ordinances of the old covenant. It was around only because the children of Israel under Moses weren’t ready for the higher priesthood to be restored among them.
 
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