Views on Mormonism?

[Prague]

Would someone be kind enough to explain the spirit children?

If an LDS couple dies, and lets say they are in their 80’s and they both end up on the same level of your heaven, do they then have spiritual children after they get there? Do they have a choice in the matter?

How does this concept work.

Thank you

 

[Tony888]

truthsave,
I urge you to** stop posting on LDS topics** until you have actually studied our doctrine and theology. What you may have seen in a youtube cartoon created by an ‘anti-mormon’ is not a valid source of true doctrine. Your request to the bishop comes across as very bigoted and spiteful. Kolob is the name of a star that metaphorically represents the center of everything (All the universes created by God)

Net, your approach is as clever and truthful as a Jack Chick tract attacking Catholoicism

 

[TexanKnight]

truthsave,
I urge you to** stop posting on LDS topics** until you have actually studied our doctrine and theology. What you may have seen in a youtube cartoon created by an ‘anti-mormon’ is not a valid source of true doctrine. Your request to the bishop comes across as very bigoted and spiteful. Kolob is the name of a star that metaphorically represents the center of everything (Al the universes created by God)

Net, your approach is as clever as a Jack Chick tract attacking Catholoicism

That is not exactly true. When Joseph taught about Kolob, he NEVER said it was metaphorical. He taught that God has a throne situated near a star or planet named Kolob, and measuring time at the rate of a thousand years per Kolob day.

This is according to LDS Historian Richard Bushman in Rough Stone Rolling

 

[Tony888]

so you support posting lies rather than asking legitimate questions, or using official souces of Doctrine?

 

[Tony888]

That is not exactly true. When Joseph taught about Kolob, he NEVER said it was metaphorical. He taught that God has a throne situated near a star or planet named Kolob, and measuring time at the rate of a thousand years per Kolob day.

This is according to LDS Historian Richard Bushman in Rough Stone Rolling

Texan, I hate to be blunt, but do you understand the purpose of a metaphore.
What is wrong with painting a picture where God is at the center of all the known universes?

In the same fashion, God is often portrayed as sitting on a throne with Christ at his side, surrounded by Angels. IT IS A METAPHORE that portrays his power and position - the image is ‘Kingly’ for us. I don’t take it as being literal that he actually spends all day holding court, sitting on a real throne, but some may do so.

 

[SteveVH]

so you support posting lies rather than asking legitimate questions, or using official souces of Doctrine?

Yes, I’m quite sure that is what he meant, Tony. It seems that you believe that we should all be experts in the Mormon faith before we make a comment. Isn’t that why you are here? Are you not free to defend your position and make corrections as you see fit?

By the way, something I just noticed in your quote from C.S. Lewis, is not the entire reason for the existence of your religion built upon the purported failure of another religion?

“I think we may accept it as a rule that whenever a person’s
religious conversation dwells chiefly, or even frequently, on the
faults of other people’s religions, he is in a bad condition.”

• C.S. Lewis

 

[Tony888]

Yes, I’m quite sure that is what he meant, Tony. It seems that you believe that we should all be experts in the Mormon faith before we make a comment. Isn’t that why you are here? Are you not free to defend your position and make corrections as you see fit?

By the way, something I just noticed in your quote from C.S. Lewis, is not the entire reason for the existence of your religion built upon the purported faliure of another religion?

No LDS member here objects to legitimate questions, we relish the opportunity to explain our faith.

However, the member in question was wrong in his doctirne and clearly ignoring any attempt to correct him. He seems to know what the LDS believe regardless of what the Bishop or we say.

His approach is no different than those who Learn their RCC theology from Jack Chick - Heck I just learned **you have both a White Pope and a Blak Pope!! **WOW, it sounds so good it must be true. After all the tract had references!!!

 

[SteveVH]

No LDS member here objects to legitimate questions, we relish the opportunity to explain our faith.

However, the member in question was wrong in his doctirne and clearly ignoring any attempt to correct him. He seems to know what the LDS believe regardless of what the Bishop or we say.

His approach is no different than those who Learn their RCC theology from Jack Chick - Heck I just learned **you have both a White Pope and a Blak Pope!! **WOW, it sounds so good it must be true. After all the tract had references!!!

And if one wishes to bring up a myth about our Church we are happy to refute it.

 

[Tony888]

Stop mocking injury. I’ve seen enough of your posts to know better. It is an inferred belief on our nature, it is not doctrine in the sense I can quote scriputre.

In December 2007 the Church issued the following press release on this issue:

Like other Christians, we believe Jesus is the divine Son of God. Satan is a fallen angel. As the Apostle Paul wrote, God is the Father of all. That means that all beings were created by God and are His spirit children. Christ, however, was the only begotten in the flesh, and we worship Him as the Son of God and the Savior of mankind

Since the LDS believe we are all the children of God, then we are all brothers and sisters in some fashion. Thus I also believe you are the spirit brother of the devil.

 

[Tony888]

sadly, we don’t always have the time to engage you on every topic you raise. I personally still plan to post on deification but have not had to the time recently, due to work. It is an interesting but complext topic. I learn meany things as I post in this forum

 

[truthsave]

truthsave,
I urge you to** stop posting on LDS topics** until you have actually studied our doctrine and theology. What you may have seen in a youtube cartoon created by an ‘anti-mormon’ is not a valid source of true doctrine. Your request to the bishop comes across as very bigoted and spiteful. Kolob is the name of a star that metaphorically represents the center of everything (All the universes created by God)

Net, your approach is as clever and truthful as a Jack Chick tract attacking Catholoicism

I have studied your doctrine. I just don’t try to find a justification of it. Apparently what you call having the Spirit is being in the position of justifing your doctrine. If somebody soesn’t justify your doctrine it doesn’t ave the Spirit.
People were mormon for 35 years, have been high priests, bishops and so on and when they don’t justify the doctrine they lost the Spirit, and they didn’t study their doctrine enough when they where bishops?
Very strange. Who knows it better?
Please don’t urge me to study your doctrine. Do you really think you know your doctrine better then I do or you just you have a justificational view of it?
Try to be subtle enough before urging people doing what they already did.
I urge you to study then historical evidence, and archives inside LDS and outside.

You did it?
When?
Why not if not?

You know how many mormon knows JS was running to be president of united states?
Not many. Why? answer.
That he killed before being killed.
That he founded a bank.
Sweedenborg theories.
I know even perfectly your temple cerimony, your handshakes, where they come from how they are performed, what do you wear where these things come from.

I have in my house manuals of your institue, I married a wife that has been mormon for 23 years and being in a mission to which when I am not sure about my finding I ask her.
Her father spent 35 years in LDS, and was a bishop and ask also to him if what I say it is ture or not.

Apparently it is just for you and LDS here that I don’t know. I am sure who is ex LDS know about their ex faith much, much more of what LDS know, since they don’t need to justify themselves any more.

I urge you to study without trying to justify your faith, it is not so difficult. Before misleading people here just because you know that it is true.
You may have a spirit to guide you.

Your attitude is highly irresponsible.

You woudn’t even buy an house in your feeling without being sure about is foundation with the risk of loosing your money. You will be more careful even buying a second hand car.

 

[SteveVH]

No LDS member here objects to legitimate questions, we relish the opportunity to explain our faith.

However, the member in question was wrong in his doctirne and clearly ignoring any attempt to correct him. He seems to know what the LDS believe regardless of what the Bishop or we say.

His approach is no different than those who Learn their RCC theology from Jack Chick - Heck I just learned **you have both a White Pope and a Blak Pope!! **WOW, it sounds so good it must be true. After all the tract had references!!!

Well, maybe I’m missing the post you are referencing. (name removed by moderator) asked a question concerning the teaching that Jesus and Satan are brothers. He was asking if that was an actual teaching of your church. I’ve still see no reply to that post.

 

[Telstar]

I have never, ever quoted CCC 460, nor do I think it pertains since it brings whatever context is taught about it, unless one is trying to figure out if there was an apostasy.

I decided to do a search and it seems that I was wrong. (I blame it on CRS.) I apologize. I disagree that it’s not relevant to the subject because it’s the section of the CCC that refers to men becoming ‘gods’ through theosis.

One wouldn’t really understand the word “gods” except by personal revelation through the Holy Ghost to that person, and by having read the Bible, including those passages I noted earlier to Tom and their contexts, to understand what Christ promised to those who are faithful in all of their covenants, including the marriage covenant.

So, what’s your point? Just because we do choose to listen to the Holy Spirit (even though you don’t think we do) and refuse to follow Joseph Smith while he jumps the train off its rails, you imply that somehow we’re the ones in error? You’ll have to pardon me for not following the logic of your example, but I happen to prefer keeping the train on the rails. It’s much safer that way. (I also believe we’re quite capable of reading a real dictionary if we really need to.)

As far as “reason and intellect alone” as compared with seeking the Holy Spirit and understanding the words “hearts burn within us”, I have seen continual scoffing about the latter and attempts to bolster the former, which shows that the guidance of the Holy Spirit for an individual is not understood and is belittled.

The reason that some of us tend to scoff at LDS’s constant references to their “burning in the bosom” is because we find it amusing that you keep pounding on that drum because you don’t think Catholics are lead by the Holy Spirit at all, when in fact, we live our entire lives being inspired by Him, daily. But, we don’t refer to it as if we had heartburn whenever we’re inspired by Him. I happen to think it just sounds a tad pretentious and melodramatic to make such remarks, as if it makes you sound more ‘spiritual’ or ‘enlightened’ than anyone else. It really doesn’t, and you really aren’t.

I had in mind the passage in 2 Peter 1:3-9, wherein the words “hath called us to glory and virtue” and “exceeding great and precious promises” and “partakers of the divine nature” are pertinent to the question of whether there is “power in godliness”. Note that the word “virtue” means “strength”, or in other words, “power through righteousness”. Please read the entire passage, and if possible use the King James translation since my experience is that other translations may not give the full meaning of a passage or may divert the meaning.

Once again, you’re data mining to make a point by pulling short phrases completely out of context. First of all, the KJV is unacceptable to me, due to its many errors in theology and translation that were made by heretics like your hero, Tynsdale, that translated it according to what they wanted it to say, and not by what it actually meant. I do prefer the Douay-Rheims to any new translations, thx anyway.

Maybe in your LDS world “virtue = strength”, but in Christianity a virtue is understood as beingefinition of VIRTUE
1 a : conformity to a standard of right : morality
b : a particular moral excellence Peter was referring to our being called to follow Jesus Christ by remaining faithful to His teachings as they were given to us by His own Apostles and their proper successors. We become ‘partakers of the divine nature’ (through theosis) by receiving the Holy Eucharist, which I already mentioned in another post. That’s the truth that’s always been found in Catholic teaching, since the very beginning.

 

[Tony888]

Some topics take more research than others, if you want to be accurate and thoughtful.

Why did you ignore my sincere response to your “burning yet unaswered” question on spirit brothers? I’m sadly fearful you already knew the answer I gave, and thus your question was not sincere.

 

[TexanKnight]

Texan, I hate to be blunt, but do you understand the purpose of a metaphore.
What is wrong with painting a picture where God is at the center of all the known universes?

In the same fashion, God is often portrayed as sitting on a throne with Christ at his side, surrounded by Angels. IT IS A METAPHORE that portrays his power and position - the image is ‘Kingly’ for us. I don’t take it as being literal that he actually spends all day holding court, sitting on a real throne, but some may do so.

Sir, I am very aware of what a metaphor is and how they are used. I am also aware that Kolob was never used as a such until more recently in the LDS Church’s ever-morphing doctrine as they try to appear more mainstream.

Now, if you can show me ANYWHERE where Joseph said it was a metaphor, I will gladly see what evidence you have.

 

[TexanKnight]

Stop mocking injury. I’ve seen enough of your posts to know better. It is an inferred belief on our nature, it is not doctrine in the sense I can quote scriputre.

In December 2007 the Church issued the following press release on this issue:

Since the LDS believe we are all the children of God, then we are all brothers and sisters in some fashion. Thus I also believe you are the spirit brother of the devil.

Actually, Mormon believe (or at least used to) that Satan is Jesus’ older brother. When a Plan of Salvation was needed, Satan had a way that would give himself the Glory. Jesus wanted a way to glorify God. God chose Jesus’ plan and Satan rebelled and a war ensued and Satan was cast out.

 

[SteveVH]

Stop mocking injury. I’ve seen enough of your posts to know better. It is an inferred belief on our nature, it is not doctrine in the sense I can quote scriputre.

In December 2007 the Church issued the following press release on this issue:

Since the LDS believe we are all the children of God, then we are all brothers and sisters in some fashion. Thus I also believe you are the spirit brother of the devil.

Just for the record, the differences we would have with this line of thought are as follows:

1. We were created by God at conception, from nothing.
2. The angels were also created by God, from nothing.
3. God has a divine nature.
4. Man has a human nature.
5. Angels have an angelic nature.

Therefore, we cannot be brothers with satan as we are not the same creatures. We will never be angels and angels will never be human, even though we are all God’s creatures. We are brothers and sisters with Christ because he became human (while remaining divine). As far as Jesus and Satan being brothers, the same principle would apply. Jesus was the Creator, Satan was the creature, an angelic creature. They could never be brothers.

 

[truthsave]

In the book of Enoch for many not a canonical text, I think it is canonical for the Euthiopian Orthodox, it is written something interesting that also goes against mormonism.
In few words the punishment of the Uviversal Flood was because of the result of the union between some angels ( I guess the watchers) and some women. from their union were born the Nephilim (geants).
In this book the Lord punishes the angels that did it since He says they went against their own nature and the project ofthe Lord. He said them from their desire they had reproduced blood and chair like mortals. But He said ****He had made the men capable to have children so to keep the cycle of life alive. But the angels were spiritual ethereal creature immortals at every creation cycle. It is for this reason they didn’t need this reproductive cycle.

It is interesting that even in this text it is clear the inutility of any kind of procreation neither spiritual or whatever for ethereal being, angel and resurrected as angels as Christ says when He talks about marriage. It is just to support the cycle of life in this world.
even this book support Christ answer about marriage.

There is a lot of confusion in mormonism what is needed in a bodily state and in an non-bodily state resurrected state.

 

[hosemonkey]

IMHO, mormons have a great deal of trouble in defending their peculiar beliefs simply because most of their beliefs are indefensible. To add to that, most mormons are not sure of what the current beliefs are (latest version) or what used to be Holy Writ and now is either changed, revised or soft-pedaled so as not to freak out the Gentiles. I think that most mormons are content just to go along and not give themselves a headache by trying to make sense of their topsy-turvy “religion.”

 

[Tony888]

Sir, I am very aware of what a metaphor is and how they are used. I am also aware that Kolob was never used as a such until more recently in the LDS Church’s ever-morphing doctrine as they try to appear more mainstream.

Now, if you can show me ANYWHERE where Joseph said it was a metaphor, I will gladly see what evidence you have.

ROFL, sorry that all scripture isn’t annotated with explanations for you.
Your response reminds me of some fundamentalists that believe the bible is a science book, and thus that dinosaurs never existed.

Can you show me anywhere that LDS scripture claims to a text on Astronomy?