Views on Mormonism?

[Pepband_Mom]

Yes, it was Abby Johnson who came & spoke in our city. I purchased her book and had her sign it. She was a very powerful speaker, unafraid to speak the truth; She mesmerized the crowd & later my high school daughter at the book signing - we felt something truly special when we met her. This lady has a powerful anointing by the Holy Spirit - I could just feel it! WOW! She has a special job to do and is doing magnificently.

There is another former PP manager that just came out mentioned by 40 Days for Life in Iowa? Was it? Abby said that is the key - if you get the workers out of there & the clinics will close one by one.

 

[blueadept]

Blueadept has posted that he is remaing faithful to his marriage vows, and will not be remarrying, yet his wife is actively seeking another to marry. Who is following the teachings of Jesus, and why?

Under certain circumstances, bishops will justify divorces as well as in certain circumstances they will justify an abortion. If it’s as rare as they try to portray it as, I don’t believe I would be one of those rare occasions.

 

[bz5]

Hi, Mtolympus,

I think this is why there are so many difficulties that people of good faith encounter when trying to interpret scripture on their own. What is really needed is another way to look at what it is that is actually going on. And, this would be a way that is much closer to the source and not invented in the 1820’s.

Remember the Canon of Sacred Scrpture - the Bible - was not developed until about 400AD - so, we have to wonder just did those early Catholics use to keep their focus on Christ and sprad the Gospel. The answer is Sacred Tradition (as opposed to the traditions of men).

Then take a look at the history of the Catholic Church from about 33AD to 500AD where the writings of the Early Church Fathers - especially in combating the heresies that sprang up with a certain frequency - are so important.

Neither Sacred Tradition or the Early Church Fathers have any favorable comments about ‘baptism of the dead’. Rather, like Paul, this practice is seen as outside the teachings of Christ and His Church. Actually, even with all of the divisions amongst the 40,000+ Protestant groups - none of them to my knowledge has anything like a ‘baptism for the dead’. I submit, this is idea that was totally imagined and developed by Joseph Smith and his followers.

God bless

Good points. But about the last paragraph, do any of the fathers mention baptizing dead people as a practice, even in a disapproving way? I’ve never heard of anyone really doing it in the early church. Certainly they talk about baptism as a way to wash away original sin, something for babies as well as adults.

 

[bz5]

Hi tqualey,

To really understand this you would need to understand revelation and the reason for having a living Prophet. Revelations may be for a specific period of time and the purpose for various revelations are seldom if ever given. However, one might reason that plural marriage was needed when the LDS were a small isolated group with many more women than men. It certainly wouldn’t make sense now that there are 14 million members. Abraham and Jacob were prophets of God with more than one wife. This also was for a limited time in biblical history. The twelve tribes of Israel came from four different mothers.

Rules for a specific period of time and purpose sound similar to what we would call disciplines - not eating meat on Fridays, or a celibate priesthood, for example, so I can understand such a thing would exist. But from the previous quotes posted on here, it doesn’t sound like Smith had anything like that it mind when he spoke of polygamy. And are you really saying that the early LDS church was so lopsided with women members? That’s hard to believe. Do you have any statistics? Abraham and Jacob did have more than one wife each, and look how that turned out - bitter jealousy, extreme sibling rivalry to the point of willingness to murder. Why would God want to bring it back?

 

[Tony888]

Under certain circumstances, bishops will justify divorces as well as in certain circumstances they will justify an abortion. If it’s as rare as they try to portray it as, I don’t believe I would be one of those rare occasions.

I acknowledge the LDS position is more liberal than the Catholic position. Heck, it’s not possible to be more conservative than the catholic position (I’m not disagreeing, by the way)

However, I don’t think it’s appropriate to compare divorce with abortion unless someone has statistics on divorce and abortion rates for both Catholics and LDS.

 

[KathleenGee]

Mwok,

Great responses…Yes, our God is the God of the Living…

And Who plays no games selecting apostles…according to the Great Apostasy idea, it implies the Apostles were no longer guided by the Holy Spirit to pass on the faith by choosing the right successors…but Joseph Smith got his…who continually change their positions.

 

[blueadept]

I acknowledge the LDS position is more liberal than the Catholic position. Heck, it’s not possible to be more conservative than the catholic position (I’m not disagreeing, by the way)

However, I don’t think it’s appropriate to compare divorce with abortion unless someone has statistics on divorce and abortion rates for both Catholics and LDS.

My point was that circumstances can exist where the LDS church would be fine with divorce or abortions.

The RCC is a little more definite in regards to these too issues.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rules for a specific period of time and purpose sound similar to what we would call disciplines - not eating meat on Fridays, or a celibate priesthood, for example, so I can understand such a thing would exist. But from the previous quotes posted on here, it doesn’t sound like Smith had anything like that it mind when he spoke of polygamy. And are you really saying that the early LDS church was so lopsided with women members? That’s hard to believe. Do you have any statistics? Abraham and Jacob did have more than one wife each, and look how that turned out - bitter jealousy, extreme sibling rivalry to the point of willingness to murder. Why would God want to bring it back?

It is a story told among Mormons, this idea that there were more wome than men. Statistically no, Utah had no higher ratio of women to men than anywhere else in the country. 1850-1960 census’ show more men in Utah than women.

Even if there were more women, Mormons are making an argument that the only way to care for single women is to marry them. Really? Brigham Young “married” three women who were in their twenties when he was in his sixties. No other young men in all the land so the twenty year olds needed to be cared for by a sixty year old man? Give me a break.

The Utah Historical Society includes population statistics in their library. The source for these statistics is the United States Bureau of Census.

Utah population:
1850 total 11,380 male 6,046 female 5,334
1860 total 40,273 male 20,255 female 20,018
1870 total 86,786 male 44,121 female 42,665
1880 total 143,963 male 74,509 female 68,454
1890 total 210,779 male 111,975 female 98,804
1900 total 276,749 male 141,687 female 135,062

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Rebecca,

Yes, this is the response I have head before … and quite honestly, it answers nothing.

God bless

The Mormon response is, of course…they are so much more blessed than everyone else because they have revelation which clarifies this for everyone…all you have to do is believe Joseph Smith was a prophet and you’ll be blessed too.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Rebecca,

Actually, the odds of a boy being born is 51% while for a girl is 49%. in-gender.com/XYU/Odds/Gender_Odds.aspx

From a strictly statistical point of view, there is really no way any group can support multiple wives without unbalancing the social order. Now when you start to compounding the unsustainable situation with actions like Smith taking multiple 20 yerar old females when he is a 60 year old. Ultimately, multiple 20 year old males must leave because the available female population has this abnormal distribution system.

Now, I am guessing that young men had to leave the community…I have no reference for this, but I just can not imagine them staying in a community where there is no opportunity for them to establish a family.

God bless

It is a story told among Mormons, this idea that there were more wome than men. Statistically no, Utah had no higher ratio of women to men than anywhere else in the country. 1850-1960 census’ show more men in Utah than women.

Even if there were more women, Mormons are making an argument that the only way to care for single women is to marry them. Really? Brigham Young “married” three women who were in their twenties when he was in his sixties. No other young men in all the land so the twenty year olds needed to be cared for by a sixty year old man? Give me a break.

The Utah Historical Society includes population statistics in their library. The source for these statistics is the United States Bureau of Census.

Utah population:
1850 total 11,380 male 6,046 female 5,334
1860 total 40,273 male 20,255 female 20,018
1870 total 86,786 male 44,121 female 42,665
1880 total 143,963 male 74,509 female 68,454
1890 total 210,779 male 111,975 female 98,804
1900 total 276,749 male 141,687 female 135,062

 

[Tony888]

My point was that circumstances can exist where the LDS church would be fine with divorce or abortions.

The RCC is a little more definite in regards to these too issues.

Yep, there is no equivocation with the RCC.
I respect the RCC position and would never want to be in a position to advise someone on any other action than keeping a child.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Hi, Rebecca,

Yes, this is the response I have head before … and quite honestly, it answers nothing.

God bless

No it doesn’t, it only makes conversations with a Mormon like talking to a rock…pointless.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Hi, Rebecca,

Actually, the odds of a boy being born is 51% while for a girl is 49%. in-gender.com/XYU/Odds/Gender_Odds.aspx

From a strictly statistical point of view, there is really no way any group can support multiple wives without unbalancing the social order. Now when you start to compounding the unsustainable situation with actions like Smith taking multiple 20 yerar old females when he is a 60 year old. Ultimately, multiple 20 year old males must leave because the available female population has this abnormal distribution system.

Now, I am guessing that young men had to leave the community…I have no reference for this, but I just can not imagine them staying in a community where there is no opportunity for them to establish a family.

God bless

Send the young men on missions where they convert young women and help them emigrate to Utah. Mormon leaders in Utah complained the missionaries were marrying the prettiest young women before sending them to Utah.

 

[mtolympus]

Actually the opposite, he asked “because of the resurrection why do they baptize for the dead?”. Paul was saying that they’re practice was in vain.

Do you have a reference for your quote?

In these two translations, Paul pointed out that baptism for the dead is evidence for the truthfulness of the reserrection:

KJV: Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead? (1 Cor. 15:29)

NIV: Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptised for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all why are people baptised for them? (1 Cor. 15:29)

 

[mtolympus]

Now when you start to compounding the unsustainable situation with actions like Smith taking multiple 20 yerar old females when he is a 60 year old.

Just for the record, Joseph Smith died when he was 38.

 

[mtolympus]

No it doesn’t, it only makes conversations with a Mormon like talking to a rock…pointless.

Thanks for the complement. As I recall, the church was built upon a rock.

 

[Avila22]

Polytheism is reflective of Greek and Roman mythology. Since your beliefs about the Trinity derive from a Greek philosopher as one of their fundamental basis, then I would say that leans more toward a Deistic belief not shared certainly by the Jews and not shared certainly by me.

But I think the Savior would describe what He was praying for humankind to be with Him, as more “monotheism” (being One) than “polytheism”, given the connotation the world brings to the two words.

Monotheism doesn’t mean BEING one, it means one God. Being One is a new-agey concept designed to deceive people into believing that all world religions are exactly the same, and that all hold the same truth. You are doing a wonderful job of proving that Mormonism and Catholicism (which purport to be the SAME religion per yourself) are not in the least the same. You have, not for the first time clearly, contradicted yourself. Also, as was pointed out above, your views are illogical in the philosophical sense. I can’t fault you for that, there have been no great Mormon philosophers, while the Catholic church has a rich philosophical tradition. (NOT Greek, just building from it.) I would encourage you to study the principles of logic before attempting to sell arguments that make no sense and are really just a bunch of strung-together pseudo-theological five-dollar fancy words that hide the emptiness of the arguments themselves.
If you want Oneness and Unity and Being One, why not just join the New Age movement? That is what most of your posts have sounded like to me, anyway, Just being honest, man.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Thanks for the complement. As I recall, the church was built upon a rock.

doesn’t mean I have anything against you personally, I just find it nearly impossible to reason with anyone who is Mormon. Like this statement. What does an inability to be reasonable have to do with Peter? Just more nonsense.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Just for the record, Joseph Smith died when he was 38.

Tqualey was responding to my post, where I pointed out Brigham Young married multiple twenty year olds when he was in his sixties. But you knew that, and just wanted to give someone a hard time I guess.

 

[mtolympus]

Hi, Mtolympus,

Please go back to post #773 where mwok provides the context to back up the previous statement.

Hi tqualey,

Yes, post #773 is an excellent post. I believe that gives an acurate statement (including the statement in red) on the LDS position on abortion. I think we agree that we disagree.