Views on Mormonism?

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Jjarek, I think you are trying to hard to read between the lines, and finding subtext that doesn’t exist.

I honesly have heard most RM move quickly to ‘tie the knot’ with an LDS wife
I certainly wouldn’t be able to argue if you took offense with guidance that pushes them to marriage, shortly after a mission.
And NO, I don’t have any statistics
 
As a member in my past ward’s Young Men’s Group, I found about 1/3 seemed genuinely excited to go on their mission, 1/3 unsure but know they will do it, and about 1/3 really struggling about what they think they should do and what they really want to do. This makes sense to me, and I’m surprised there were not much more youths rejecting the idea about going on a mission. All that being said, I heard a lot of talk coming from parents and the young adults themselves about wanting to marry a returning missionary. From what I understood, they felt those that completed a mission are all the more solidified in their LDS faith. We could speculate the mission was a “make or break” experience; if you remained a happy LDS after the mission you would likely stay one. ? Another common thread I heard among my great Mormon friends was that they all discovered great variation in accepted practices as they moved about from area to area in the mission field. In two years they cycled through various mission “companions,” host families and wards, and even mission presidents. I recall one saying no Mormon in his home town believed cola (with caffeine) was OK to consume; but it was his mission president that explained cola was OK. Another was shocked when she reported to a ward on her mission where the females wore earrings that "dangled’ (not one-piece). She did say her Mom explained that it was never a “church prohibition” but that the community they grew up in had some Elders that frowned upon it.

I know all faith groups sometime promulgate variation in doctrinal guidance on personal behavior, but I feel the variation was greater among the LDS. They have had so much change in their written theology and subsequent social parameters that it appears to me they have a hard time keeping track of what is truly OK and what is not. Ask ten mormons if “chocolate is OK to consume,” and you might get five or more different answers.

What is also unsettled is who is the true successor to Joseph Smith. Sidney Rigdon, Brigham Young, and James J. Strang all argued they were the rightful successor and leader of the church. All of Smith’s family, except for Hyrum, stated JJ Strang was the successor. Rigdon took his group to Pennsylvania, Strang to Beaver Island, and Young to Utah. Young’s group eventually became the biggest of the three but Strang’s group still goes by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Strangites). For a good while, Young’s group had to go by Church of LDS (Brighamites) just to make the distinction. Brigham Young had a very interesting impact on the future of the LDS church. Many things that are now accepted as “must dos” were from him, not Joseph. I always invite LDS to watch the PBS documentary on Mason Lodge Temple Rites. There is no reference to anything LDS, but after they see it they are usually disturbed by the fact it is almost identical to the Temple Endowment ceremony (secret names, sure sign and other hand shakes, aprons, etc., etc. Young was a HUGE Mason guy (coming from a line of Mason men). It is a little known fact among LDS that Joseph Smith never went through a Temple Endowment (not in a Temple). This is required for Celestial Kingdom consideration.

I sure don’t want to upset the LDS folks. I love them and I am bias toward them. As soon as one is identified I quickly introduce myself and just enjoy them. I stay away from my past or at least why I left because I don’t want to lose their companionship. I don’t try to convert them because I know how deeply committed most of them are. Is this wrong? Should I forsake the joy I gain from their wonderful style of friendship and try to introduce some things they ought to consider about their religion?
 
Discopulo

What you have explained…all the different changing positions, etc., the work of free will and Mormon missionary experience, the friends that you have that are Mormons…

Keep them. Just love and accept them for where they are at. You are doing well by maintaining friendship with them, and you are clear about your beliefs.

God bless you!
 
Hi, Discepolo,

Thank you for sharng your personal experiences with us. 🙂

One of the things with any of the man-made religions is the imprint of the man. It really does not make much difference how these imprints differ - what is common is that either they are not written in Scripture or are part of the Early Church Faters - those men closest to Christ and the Apostles chronoligically, or are totally in opposition to the teachings of Christ.

God bless
As a member in my past ward’s Young Men’s Group, I found about 1/3 seemed genuinely excited to go on their mission, 1/3 unsure but know they will do it, and about 1/3 really struggling about what they think they should do and what they really want to do. This makes sense to me, and I’m surprised there were not much more youths rejecting the idea about going on a mission. All that being said, I heard a lot of talk coming from parents and the young adults themselves about wanting to marry a returning missionary. From what I understood, they felt those that completed a mission are all the more solidified in their LDS faith. We could speculate the mission was a “make or break” experience; if you remained a happy LDS after the mission you would likely stay one. ? Another common thread I heard among my great Mormon friends was that they all discovered great variation in accepted practices as they moved about from area to area in the mission field. In two years they cycled through various mission “companions,” host families and wards, and even mission presidents. I recall one saying no Mormon in his home town believed cola (with caffeine) was OK to consume; but it was his mission president that explained cola was OK. Another was shocked when she reported to a ward on her mission where the females wore earrings that "dangled’ (not one-piece). She did say her Mom explained that it was never a “church prohibition” but that the community they grew up in had some Elders that frowned upon it.

I know all faith groups sometime promulgate variation in doctrinal guidance on personal behavior, but I feel the variation was greater among the LDS. They have had so much change in their written theology and subsequent social parameters that it appears to me they have a hard time keeping track of what is truly OK and what is not. Ask ten mormons if “chocolate is OK to consume,” and you might get five or more different answers.

What is also unsettled is who is the true successor to Joseph Smith. Sidney Rigdon, Brigham Young, and James J. Strang all argued they were the rightful successor and leader of the church. All of Smith’s family, except for Hyrum, stated JJ Strang was the successor. Rigdon took his group to Pennsylvania, Strang to Beaver Island, and Young to Utah. Young’s group eventually became the biggest of the three but Strang’s group still goes by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Strangites). For a good while, Young’s group had to go by Church of LDS (Brighamites) just to make the distinction. Brigham Young had a very interesting impact on the future of the LDS church. Many things that are now accepted as “must dos” were from him, not Joseph. I always invite LDS to watch the PBS documentary on Mason Lodge Temple Rites. There is no reference to anything LDS, but after they see it they are usually disturbed by the fact it is almost identical to the Temple Endowment ceremony (secret names, sure sign and other hand shakes, aprons, etc., etc. Young was a HUGE Mason guy (coming from a line of Mason men). It is a little known fact among LDS that Joseph Smith never went through a Temple Endowment (not in a Temple). This is required for Celestial Kingdom consideration.

I sure don’t want to upset the LDS folks. I love them and I am bias toward them. As soon as one is identified I quickly introduce myself and just enjoy them. I stay away from my past or at least why I left because I don’t want to lose their companionship. I don’t try to convert them because I know how deeply committed most of them are. Is this wrong? Should I forsake the joy I gain from their wonderful style of friendship and try to introduce some things they ought to consider about their religion?
 
As a member in my past ward’s Young Men’s Group, I found about 1/3 seemed genuinely excited to go on their mission, 1/3 unsure but know they will do it, and about 1/3 really struggling about what they think they should do and what they really want to do. This makes sense to me, and I’m surprised there were not much more youths rejecting the idea about going on a mission. All that being said, I heard a lot of talk coming from parents and the young adults themselves about wanting to marry a returning missionary. From what I understood, they felt those that completed a mission are all the more solidified in their LDS faith. We could speculate the mission was a “make or break” experience; if you remained a happy LDS after the mission you would likely stay one. ? Another common thread I heard among my great Mormon friends was that they all discovered great variation in accepted practices as they moved about from area to area in the mission field. In two years they cycled through various mission “companions,” host families and wards, and even mission presidents. I recall one saying no Mormon in his home town believed cola (with caffeine) was OK to consume; but it was his mission president that explained cola was OK. Another was shocked when she reported to a ward on her mission where the females wore earrings that "dangled’ (not one-piece). She did say her Mom explained that it was never a “church prohibition” but that the community they grew up in had some Elders that frowned upon it.

I know all faith groups sometime promulgate variation in doctrinal guidance on personal behavior, but I feel the variation was greater among the LDS. They have had so much change in their written theology and subsequent social parameters that it appears to me they have a hard time keeping track of what is truly OK and what is not. Ask ten mormons if “chocolate is OK to consume,” and you might get five or more different answers.

What is also unsettled is who is the true successor to Joseph Smith. Sidney Rigdon, Brigham Young, and James J. Strang all argued they were the rightful successor and leader of the church. All of Smith’s family, except for Hyrum, stated JJ Strang was the successor. Rigdon took his group to Pennsylvania, Strang to Beaver Island, and Young to Utah. Young’s group eventually became the biggest of the three but Strang’s group still goes by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Strangites). For a good while, Young’s group had to go by Church of LDS (Brighamites) just to make the distinction. Brigham Young had a very interesting impact on the future of the LDS church. Many things that are now accepted as “must dos” were from him, not Joseph. I always invite LDS to watch the PBS documentary on Mason Lodge Temple Rites. There is no reference to anything LDS, but after they see it they are usually disturbed by the fact it is almost identical to the Temple Endowment ceremony (secret names, sure sign and other hand shakes, aprons, etc., etc. Young was a HUGE Mason guy (coming from a line of Mason men). It is a little known fact among LDS that Joseph Smith never went through a Temple Endowment (not in a Temple). This is required for Celestial Kingdom consideration.

I sure don’t want to upset the LDS folks. I love them and I am bias toward them. As soon as one is identified I quickly introduce myself and just enjoy them. I stay away from my past or at least why I left because I don’t want to lose their companionship. I don’t try to convert them because I know how deeply committed most of them are. Is this wrong? Should I forsake the joy I gain from their wonderful style of friendship and try to introduce some things they ought to consider about their religion?
Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I don’t know why you shouldn’t be friends with Mormons and enjoy their company. If it came up or they asked, you could talk about your conversion without being argumentative. I think we might seem more argumentative here than in ‘real life’ knowing we’ve all come to the forum to discuss ideas about religion. Also, I hope you’re finding wonderful Catholic families to watch and know, share feasts and holy days with etc…You and they can strengthen each other’s faith
 
As a member in my past ward’s Young Men’s Group, I found about 1/3 seemed genuinely excited to go on their mission, 1/3 unsure but know they will do it, and about 1/3 really struggling about what they think they should do and what they really want to do. This makes sense to me, and I’m surprised there were not much more youths rejecting the idea about going on a mission. All that being said, I heard a lot of talk coming from parents and the young adults themselves about wanting to marry a returning missionary. From what I understood, they felt those that completed a mission are all the more solidified in their LDS faith. We could speculate the mission was a “make or break” experience; if you remained a happy LDS after the mission you would likely stay one. ? Another common thread I heard among my great Mormon friends was that they all discovered great variation in accepted practices as they moved about from area to area in the mission field. In two years they cycled through various mission “companions,” host families and wards, and even mission presidents. I recall one saying no Mormon in his home town believed cola (with caffeine) was OK to consume; but it was his mission president that explained cola was OK. Another was shocked when she reported to a ward on her mission where the females wore earrings that "dangled’ (not one-piece). She did say her Mom explained that it was never a “church prohibition” but that the community they grew up in had some Elders that frowned upon it.

I know all faith groups sometime promulgate variation in doctrinal guidance on personal behavior, but I feel the variation was greater among the LDS. They have had so much change in their written theology and subsequent social parameters that it appears to me they have a hard time keeping track of what is truly OK and what is not. Ask ten mormons if “chocolate is OK to consume,” and you might get five or more different answers.

What is also unsettled is who is the true successor to Joseph Smith. Sidney Rigdon, Brigham Young, and James J. Strang all argued they were the rightful successor and leader of the church. All of Smith’s family, except for Hyrum, stated JJ Strang was the successor. Rigdon took his group to Pennsylvania, Strang to Beaver Island, and Young to Utah. Young’s group eventually became the biggest of the three but Strang’s group still goes by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Strangites). For a good while, Young’s group had to go by Church of LDS (Brighamites) just to make the distinction. Brigham Young had a very interesting impact on the future of the LDS church. Many things that are now accepted as “must dos” were from him, not Joseph. I always invite LDS to watch the PBS documentary on Mason Lodge Temple Rites. There is no reference to anything LDS, but after they see it they are usually disturbed by the fact it is almost identical to the Temple Endowment ceremony (secret names, sure sign and other hand shakes, aprons, etc., etc. Young was a HUGE Mason guy (coming from a line of Mason men). It is a little known fact among LDS that Joseph Smith never went through a Temple Endowment (not in a Temple). This is required for Celestial Kingdom consideration.

I sure don’t want to upset the LDS folks. I love them and I am bias toward them. As soon as one is identified I quickly introduce myself and just enjoy them. I stay away from my past or at least why I left because I don’t want to lose their companionship. I don’t try to convert them because I know how deeply committed most of them are. Is this wrong? Should I forsake the joy I gain from their wonderful style of friendship and try to introduce some things they ought to consider about their religion?
My 17 year journey in Mormonism hasn’t been filled with such variety. I joined the church in AZ and served my mission in central California. Ive never been down with nor understood the obedience for obedience sake thing, especially on things that didn’t make sense (tea, coffee, no facial hair, one pair of earrings on girls etc).

I too have wanted to take all Mormons through the Masonic degrees. Mostly to get them to realize that the temple ceremony is EXTREMELY derivative and not at all of ancient usage as many Mormons think.
 
Discepolo, your view were really interesting. I was wondering about all of the do’s and don’t s
of the Mormon faith. My daughter won’t go shopping on a Sunday because she thinks that she is causing the cashier to work on the Sabbath. I told her that her boss is causing her to work on that day and that she will be there regardless of who shops on the sabbath. I also asked her why the women have long hair, only wear dresses or skirts and not pants to church, why no caffine but yet she drinks pepsi and eats chocolate. I don’t know if she realizes this but I won’t tell her. She asked about the dress and no pants and the person had no idea why. She said she would have to ask the bishop.
I find this all a bit crazy. Why would a church tell you what to wear, what to eat or drink etc. Tomorrow is her birthday. I thought she would give us some flack about going out to a restaurant on Sunday, but she is all for it. I don’t doubt about the niceness of the mormon people. This we saw with the family she lived with. Sometimes when people are that nice, I have a problem trusting them. They just look as though their up to something. I know I shouldn’t judge, so I apologize.
Keep the facts coming. I need to learn all that I can about them.
That is great that you still remain friends with them. My daughter made friends in the mormon church that she was baptized in but now they have moved her to a singles church which really doesn’t make any sense to me. She really isn’t happy about that. Maybe this is one step closer to her seeing that perhaps she didn’t think this through before jumping into this new faith.

Thanks once again for the info.

Have a blessed day and may God bless you

Michelle G 55
 
Discepolo, your view were really interesting. I was wondering about all of the do’s and don’t s
of the Mormon faith. My daughter won’t go shopping on a Sunday because she thinks that she is causing the cashier to work on the Sabbath. I told her that her boss is causing her to work on that day and that she will be there regardless of who shops on the sabbath. I also asked her why the women have long hair, only wear dresses or skirts and not pants to church, why no caffine but yet she drinks pepsi and eats chocolate. I don’t know if she realizes this but I won’t tell her. She asked about the dress and no pants and the person had no idea why. She said she would have to ask the bishop.
I find this all a bit crazy. Why would a church tell you what to wear, what to eat or drink etc. Tomorrow is her birthday. I thought she would give us some flack about going out to a restaurant on Sunday, but she is all for it. I don’t doubt about the niceness of the mormon people. This we saw with the family she lived with. Sometimes when people are that nice, I have a problem trusting them. They just look as though their up to something. I know I shouldn’t judge, so I apologize.
Keep the facts coming. I need to learn all that I can about them.
That is great that you still remain friends with them. My daughter made friends in the mormon church that she was baptized in but now they have moved her to a singles church which really doesn’t make any sense to me. She really isn’t happy about that. Maybe this is one step closer to her seeing that perhaps she didn’t think this through before jumping into this new faith.

Thanks once again for the info.

Have a blessed day and may God bless you

Michelle G 55
The dress only/no pants thing is a Mormon culture item. You will occasionally see variations of this but not very often. My wife’s mother wouldn’t even let her and her (seven) sisters wear denim skirts to church because it wasn’t dressy enough for church. On the men’s side you will almost exclusively see white shirts and many of the men 18+ (and almost all of the leadership) will be wearing suits. This is usually inculcated into Mormon men through their missions and then is spread by example back home. As far as the singles ward thing. The exclusive purpose those exist is to pair up and get young single adults married. Caffeine is not specifically prohibited, although most Mormons interpret the “revelation” this comes from to include things like caffeine. The “official” interpretation is coffee and tea, which many Mormons cannot tell you exactly why. It’s another one of those obedience for obedience sake situations. Feel free to ask any questions you may have as there are many ex Mormons (both long time and recent) that post here regularly and lurk.
 
Hi Michelle,
the dress code is about showing respect. When I was a boy, the dress code was similar in my Catholic church. Avoiding work on Sunday is not unique to LDS.

The word of wisdom is about treating your body as a temple, and avoiding addictive substances. Caffine is not expressly forbidden but is avoided by many LDS. Understanding the Words of Wisdom is a full seperate thread 🙂

It is OK to be cautious, but sometimes things are as they appear. To use scripture, Christians are commanded to ‘be nice’ 1 John 4
We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.
 
Hi Michelle,
the dress code is about showing respect. When I was a boy, the dress code was similar in my Catholic church. Avoiding work on Sunday is not unique to LDS.

The word of wisdom is about treating your body as a temple, and avoiding addictive substances. Caffine is not expressly forbidden but is avoided by many LDS. Understanding the Words of Wisdom is a full seperate thread 🙂

It is OK to be cautious, but sometimes things are as they appear. To use scripture, Christians are commanded to ‘be nice’ 1 John 4
And you were a boy when???
 
Yes, one can only show respect and reverence in a business suit. 😉
This issue of the dress at church has been one of the hardest Mormon ideas to break in my mind. Even at the FSSP parish I try to attend when I can the normal everyday attire for Mass is slacks and a polo shirt or button-down. Occasionally I will see someone in a tie. I started a “dress for church” thread a while ago and felt better about more casual dress. I know there are some people that go overboard with casual dress, for example I dont think I could EVER wear shorts to church or even jeans. But those things are ok for some people. The answer I got depended on the parish that the particular respondent attended.
 
Discepolo, your view were really interesting. I was wondering about all of the do’s and don’t s
of the Mormon faith. My daughter won’t go shopping on a Sunday because she thinks that she is causing the cashier to work on the Sabbath. I told her that her boss is causing her to work on that day and that she will be there regardless of who shops on the sabbath. I also asked her why the women have long hair, only wear dresses or skirts and not pants to church, why no caffine but yet she drinks pepsi and eats chocolate. I don’t know if she realizes this but I won’t tell her. She asked about the dress and no pants and the person had no idea why. She said she would have to ask the bishop.
I find this all a bit crazy. Why would a church tell you what to wear, what to eat or drink etc. Tomorrow is her birthday. I thought she would give us some flack about going out to a restaurant on Sunday, but she is all for it. I don’t doubt about the niceness of the mormon people. This we saw with the family she lived with. Sometimes when people are that nice, I have a problem trusting them. They just look as though their up to something. I know I shouldn’t judge, so I apologize.
Keep the facts coming. I need to learn all that I can about them.
That is great that you still remain friends with them. My daughter made friends in the mormon church that she was baptized in but now they have moved her to a singles church which really doesn’t make any sense to me. She really isn’t happy about that. Maybe this is one step closer to her seeing that perhaps she didn’t think this through before jumping into this new faith.

Thanks once again for the info.

Have a blessed day and may God bless you

Michelle G 55
There’s a book by a Catholic priest - turned Mormon - back to Catholicism. His name is Isaiah Bennett, and the book is Inside Mormonism. You can learn a lot from that. It might even be available on this website - for sure on amazon.
 
T…The “official” interpretation is coffee and tea, which many Mormons cannot tell you exactly why. It’s another one of those obedience for obedience sake situations. Feel free to ask any questions you may have as there are many ex Mormons (both long time and recent) that post here regularly and lurk.
I thought the original prohibition was on “hot drinks” ?
 
This issue of the dress at church has been one of the hardest Mormon ideas to break in my mind. Even at the FSSP parish I try to attend when I can the normal everyday attire for Mass is slacks and a polo shirt or button-down. Occasionally I will see someone in a tie. I started a “dress for church” thread a while ago and felt better about more casual dress. I know there are some people that go overboard with casual dress, for example I dont think I could EVER wear shorts to church or even jeans. But those things are ok for some people. The answer I got depended on the parish that the particular respondent attended.
No worries, wear what you like. There is nothing wrong with wearing a business suit or a nice dress/skirt to mass. What is nice is that it is your choice to wear what you like! I know Catholics who think along the same lines as LDS, and wear only their best clothes to mass. There is nothing wrong with wanting to dress your best. I think there is something wrong with judging people for what they wear to church, which is what Mormons do…dress your best or else you aren’t being respectful…of course, Mormons are all about outward appearance. You can dress to look respectful, it doesn’t mean that you actually are being respectful. It only means you are respecting a dress code.

I was thinking this morning, our parish is an urban parish, we have a wide range of economic levels, from the very rich to the homeless. I’ve seen people in very expensive clothing, and the homeless who worship with us, that are in their street clothes. I couldn’t imagine a homeless person in street clothes sitting in a Mormon sacrament meeting, could you?

At one Easter Vigil, one homeless man was extremely drunk, and very emotional. Crying, but singing and praying with us. Not ideal, no doubt, but everyone belongs at mass. Everyone. We come as we are before Jesus Christ, broken, some of us are more outwardly broken than others. It is Jesus who heals us, not the clothes we wear.
 
Hi, Tony888,

This may be a first … but … I am in agreement with you concerning dressing nicely as a sign of respect. And, while it is not the only way to show respect - and reverance - I did not think you were trying to be all inclusive in your post.

And, while, “…wine gladdens the heart…” Psalm 104, Ecclesiastes 10 and as you know, Christ used real wine (as opposed to grape juice) that He miraclously transformed into His Body, Blood, Human Soul and Divinity - abuse of alcohol (drunkeness) is a problem both morally and physically. So, I think the word that most of us work with is: moderation although voluntarily abstaining from anything that is lawful is appropriate. That would be up to the individual - as opposed to the group.

Respect is good… 🙂

God bless

Search ResultsPsalm 104:15 wine that gladdens the heart of … - Online Parallel Biblebible.cc/psalms/104-15.htmCached - Similar
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That he may make the face cheerful with oil: and that bread may strengthen man’s heart. Darby Bible Translation And wine which gladdeneth the heart of man; …
Ecclesiastes 10:19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes life …bible.cc/ecclesiastes/10-19.htmCached - Similar
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Bread is made for laughter, and wine gladdens life, and money answers everything. … King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) … Clarke’s Commentary on the Bible …
Hi Michelle,
the dress code is about showing respect. When I was a boy, the dress code was similar in my Catholic church. Avoiding work on Sunday is not unique to LDS.

The word of wisdom is about treating your body as a temple, and avoiding addictive substances. Caffine is not expressly forbidden but is avoided by many LDS. Understanding the Words of Wisdom is a full seperate thread 🙂

It is OK to be cautious, but sometimes things are as they appear. To use scripture, Christians are commanded to ‘be nice’ 1 John 4
 
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