Views On Sex Means No Dating

[holyrood]

Back in college I blamed a lot of my problems, particularly when it came to romance, on my widely-acknowledged niceness.

Funny (or not so funny) story. In the last days before I filed for divorce, over XH lying, cheating, digging us into debt, hiding credit cards, stealing my money, and more…He finally confessed to a one night stand–probably only because he figured out I already knew about it. He told me how he took this woman to his apartment (we were separated at the time it happened) 30 minutes after meeting her. He’d been angry at me the night he met her (because he’d walked out on me 9 months earlier, left me with 3 young children and I actually considered divorce!) She was all over this and they had sex. Next week, he invited her on a real date, and she went, but seemed uninterested.

He complained to me–actually expecting my sympathy!–that girls don’t like ‘nice’ guys!

I’m staring at my HUSBAND telling me about this one night stand on top of everything else, and still complaining that his problem is he’s a NICE guy!!!

Because 1. girls want someone who is sexually experienced, 2. i am too embarrassed that ive never had sex to actually date a girl

The below are great answers to this:

That depends on what you have to show for it:shrug:. Inexperience is often associated with lack of drive, charisma, and initiative. If you’re moving along quickly in your career, are pursuing your talents and hobbies in your free time, and have an active social life, you’ll put those concerns to rest before she even knows they could be concerns.

I recommend forgetting dating.
I would suggest joining a hiking club, a writers’ group, a spelunkers’ group, a band, . . something that you enjoy and really can look forward to. You may or may not meet a girl there, but you will meet people…

I will add that when I filed for divorce, I really believed I was looking at a choice of living against my beliefs or remaining single, but in the five years since my divorce was final, I have dated two men long term (2 years each), and both have been very willing to keep seeing me on those terms. There have been other men who would have continued seeing me, too. If there are men out there who can respect that there are certainly women who will respect your choice.

 

[LethalMouse]

It is also important to note that we perceive things a certain way. When I was younger and waiting, due to my manerisms and personality, and I can assume my looks. And due to the ease in which I would flirt and have interested women around, everyone who sort of knew me assumed I was getting sex all over the place. When in reality I was a complete virgin. More importantly I judged people on a similarly shallow basis and never really wanted much from the women who were interested in me because I assumed them to be all about sex. In some cases this was true, but in hindsight there were many I never actually took the time to find out. It was and is easy to assume all people suck and think the worst of them, the you either recede from the world or give up and beco e that which disgusts you. The right answer is you can date and find people like yourself but it requires 2 things:

1. Look specifically for what you are looking for.
2. Don’t surface judge people, go on a date before you decide a woman is unscrupulous. And if you dabble in online dating or after getting a phone number do some text/talk stuff, you can usually find this out before wasting a date anyway.

 

[phil19034]

You mean the I-did-the-nice-now-where’s-my-woman neanderthals? Those guys were SUPER common in college and I avoided them. The disingenuous “kindness” followed by entitlement followed by a victim mentality that they’re all too happy to wallow in can only be described as creepy.

I’ve never met a genuinely good, honest guy who ever blamed a single problem, much less lack of romance, on his own self-professed “niceness”.

As a guy, I also know there are a number of nice guys who are shy or insecure around girls.

Many of them have a hard time because their insecurity causes them to not know the right thing to say or do. And their insecurity around girls causes them to not relax and simply be themselves.

However, most of these guys eventually grow out of that, especially when the enter the working world.

From a guy’s perspective, those are the nice guys that finish last.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Hello,

I have posted a few times on this forum about the same topic. But its still a bother to me. I am 23 years old. Finished college, has a full time job, and lives by himself. Ive never been in a relationship let a lone had sex. It is important for me to wait however. Like, really important And its not for religious reasons either. Just personal. (Nothing medical). But I feel like this beleif will make it impossible for me to date.

Any thoughts

While I agree that dating seems to be very difficult these days, especially for guys, I think your difficulty might have as much to do with age as it does with your sexual reservations. You’re probably thinking, “What the hell is this dude talking about? I’m not even close to being considered old!” Since you have stated your age to be twenty-three years old, I am going to assume that most of the girls that you view as dating prospects are between the ages of twenty and twenty-five. As a guy who is a few years over twenty-five, I’ve asked out a number of women in that age bracket myself. I have had minimal success in getting dates and zero success in establishing anything resembling a serious relationship. I have recently come to the conclusion that twenty-something women are not really all that interested in serious relationships, period. I have further concluded that this lack of interest is the main reason why twenty-something guys have such difficulty in finding a marriage partner. You’re probably like “Huh?” This light bulb moment for me came as a result of some of the things I have been reading lately. Here’s where I’m going with this.

In general, women are at their peak in terms of physical attractiveness when they are between the ages of twenty-one and twenty-eight, give or take a year or two depending on the individual. In other words women are at the height of their sexual market value (SMV) when they are in their early to mid-twenties. If we are talking about non-religious girls, this is where your no-pre-marital-sex mandate probably does hurt you. Because these twenty-something women are at their SMV peak (and at least on a subliminal level they know it) they have a much larger pool of men to choose from and consequently will only date guys that they are willing to screw and who are willing to screw them. If you aren’t willing to put out then you are automatically disqualified from the game because she can easily find a hotter a guy that would probably love to bed her.

“That’s all well and good, but I’m only interested in marrying a Catholic girl, who shares my views on sex, anyway. I’ll just stick to those girls, behave like a gentleman and everything should work out just fine, right?” Not necessarily. Five years ago that was exactly the attitude I had. I’ve done the whole Catholic/Christian-Online-Dating thing and asked out (face to face) several girls from Catholic/Christian, church-going families, who as far as I could tell fit my pious, Sunday school criteria. I got ignored, stood up, had a long-distance “relationship” that showed promise go completely cold after six weeks, and had one young lady tell me that she was “kinda seeing somebody.” The last girl at least had the decency to tell me straight up that she wasn’t interested in a relationship with me. These experiences have lead me to believe that the religious girls are just as difficult to date as their secular counterparts – the dynamic is a little bit different, but the basic rules still apply. Since practicing Catholic girls usually do not believe in pre-marital sex any more than you do, your dating rules are not going to disqualify you. That being said, whether she is religious or not, the SMV power dynamic is still in her favor at this point. So why would she date a guy unless he demonstrates a high probability of being good marriage material? I guarantee you that adherence to the no-sex-before-marriage rule does not automatically get your foot in the door. Being a gentleman isn’t going to do it for you either. When they’re in their early twenties most women can afford to be picky, and they know it.

I wish I could be more encouraging but women, Catholic or otherwise, just aren’t going to consider dating a Beta until after they’ve proven incapable of bagging an Alpha. The Pareto Principle, or a facsimile thereof, applies. Eighty percent of women will try to marry (or at least sleep with) the top twenty percent of the men. What qualifies a man as being in that top echelon will vary somewhat between women, but the fact remains that most guys won’t make the cut. Odds are a woman in her twenties is not going to be overly enthused about dating a guy who doesn’t qualify as an Alpha. The best advice I can give you is to cultivate a set of hobbies that can help boost your self-confidence and make you feel like a more complete person. I also recommend learning at least a little bit about pick up. There will be a lot of people on this forum that will hate me for saying that but my response is that you wouldn’t step into the ring with Floyd Mayweather without al least learning how to punch first. The relationship game usually gets easier for a guy as he gets older as long as he takes care of himself.

 

[Xantippe]

While I agree that dating seems to be very difficult these days, especially for guys, I think your difficulty might have as much to do with age as it does with your sexual reservations. You’re probably thinking, “What the hell is this dude talking about? I’m not even close to being considered old!” Since you have stated your age to be twenty-three years old, I am going to assume that most of the girls that you view as dating prospects are between the ages of twenty and twenty-five. As a guy who is a few years over twenty-five, I’ve asked out a number of women in that age bracket myself. I have had minimal success in getting dates and zero success in establishing anything resembling a serious relationship. I have recently come to the conclusion that twenty-something women are not really all that interested in serious relationships, period. I have further concluded that this lack of interest is the main reason why twenty-something guys have such difficulty in finding a marriage partner. You’re probably like “Huh?” This light bulb moment for me came as a result of some of the things I have been reading lately. Here’s where I’m going with this.

In general, women are at their peak in terms of physical attractiveness when they are between the ages of twenty-one and twenty-eight, give or take a year or two depending on the individual. In other words women are at the height of their sexual market value (SMV) when they are in their early to mid-twenties. If we are talking about non-religious girls, this is where your no-pre-marital-sex mandate probably does hurt you. Because these twenty-something women are at their SMV peak (and at least on a subliminal level they know it) they have a much larger pool of men to choose from and consequently will only date guys that they are willing to screw and who are willing to screw them. If you aren’t willing to put out then you are automatically disqualified from the game because she can easily find a hotter a guy that would probably love to bed her.

[snip]

I wish I could be more encouraging but women, Catholic or otherwise, just aren’t going to consider dating a Beta until after they’ve proven incapable of bagging an Alpha. The Pareto Principle, or a facsimile thereof, applies. Eighty percent of women will try to marry (or at least sleep with) the top twenty percent of the men. What qualifies a man as being in that top echelon will vary somewhat between women, but the fact remains that most guys won’t make the cut. Odds are a woman in her twenties is not going to be overly enthused about dating a guy who doesn’t qualify as an Alpha. The best advice I can give you is to cultivate a set of hobbies that can help boost your self-confidence and make you feel like a more complete person. I also recommend learning at least a little bit about pick up. There will be a lot of people on this forum that will hate me for saying that but my response is that you wouldn’t step into the ring with Floyd Mayweather without al least learning how to punch first. The relationship game usually gets easier for a guy as he gets older as long as he takes care of himself.

Lawdamercy. Where to begin?

–You are correct that the OP’s age is an issue. At his age, a lot of women the appropriate age are still in school/not sure where they’ll be next year/applying to graduate school/serving as a FOCUS missionary/settling into a graduate program/heading off to the Peace Corps/teaching English in Korea/finding their feet at a new job. These are very busy years. So there’s some point in thinking that within a year or two, they’ll be more available.
–the median US woman now marries at 27 while the median US man marries at 29. So, a lot of people are getting married in their 20s.
–The Alpha/Beta terminology is very dubious and almost certain to destroy a guy’s self-esteem if he thinks too much about it. Woody Allen has had LOTS of girlfriends and wives, despite having spent the last 40 years looking like an old lady.
–Hobbies are good, especially social, co-ed hobbies.
–Studying pickup will teach the OP how to pick up women that pickup techniques work on.
–Part of the reason that dating is easier for slightly older guys is that time and practice helps a lot with developing small talk and locating common interests. Speaking as a middle aged married lady, dads are the best. I really enjoy chatting with dads at kids’ birthday parties. Lord knows what I would talk to a callow 25-year-old about…