B
BelFarfalla
Guest
Can you explain in more detail?
- Status
G
Goth_Catholic
Guest
I’d rather convert to a religion that sees the Holy Mother in a way that is not far from the truth, then a demonation that puts her in a position far lower then God intended.
But I’m extremely happy being a Catholic. Not planning to convert.
B
BelFarfalla
Guest
No worry… I’m not assuming that you would convert. Just wondering your view point.
Muslims consider the Catholic viewpoint about Mary to be blasphamie. They also consider the Holy Trinity to be blasphamy and believing that Jesus is anything but a simple prophet.
If you were a Muslim and held any of those beliefs (and did not hide it) you would be subject to the death penalty.
Would you be willing to give up your belief in Jesus and the Trinity?
H
Hellisreal
Guest
Have you ever pondered if the numerous splits in Protestant denominations
(although there are in Islam, but from what I can gather the list of “schismatic” Muslim faiths is under 10 in number maybe 7 I think)
could be linked to how when Mary is understood in a proper way, there is less confusion?
I look at Martin Luther, and see his views of Mary and the early “reformers”, and I see a link between the “orthodoxy” of the faiths and the correlation of their view of Mary…
Just one of the many thoughts I have.
Is fasting a factor as well? active prayer lives?
G
Goth_Catholic
Guest
Nope. Just saying, I’d choose a lesser of two evils. And Protestantism is evil (nodice I said protestantism and not protestants, I will not have that arugment. again.)
B
BelFarfalla
Guest
I could never convert to Islam…
A person could just start their own denomication and include Mary. That’s the way they do it right?
G
Goth_Catholic
Guest
lol, sometimes I wonder
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
I had a discusssion with patty a Christian friend on an Islamic Forum, I copy one of the posts for comments of my friends here.
Patty wrote:
The belief in the corporeal assumption of Mary was formally declared to be dogma by Pope Benedict XIV in the encyclical De Festis B.V.M.; Roman Catholics must therefore hold the doctrine as being necessary to salvation. Pope Pius XII, in Munificentissimus Deus [1], reiterated “We pronounce, declare, and define it to be a divinely revealed dogma: that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory.” The establishment of this dogma as “necessary to salvation” is widely taken to be an example of the Pope’s invoking papal infallibility.
Paarsurrey wrote:
Patty! I do respect your religion and everybody else’s religion, but you know one should follow reason ,rationality and arguments, endowed by GodAllahYHWH to humans mercifully. Praise be to God the Creator of he Universe!
I have pasted the post here, as it is now more relevent here. May GodAllahYHWH guide us all! I hope all Christians join the discussion, please take it as a discussion for truth, not as a crusade.
Hi
As I wrote earlire,the Christians have neither given the status to JesusYeshuaIssa nor to MaryMeriumMaryam they deserved on merit, only under unjustified and clever influence of Paul who robbed them off their truthful honor only to establish his own hegemony over the simple and ignorant people called Christians, I am sorry to say, but that is a fact. As Paul was disrespectful to Jesus’ disciples so he belittled Mary so much so that one does not find any account of her life after when JesusYeshuaIssa and MaryMeriumMaryam last met at Galilee. Paul got Jesus cleverly ascended to heavens to pave his way for absolute hegemony over the church going people; and disciples and Mary he never cared about them. As pointed out by Patty, (this was not perhaps even known by the Popes who succeeded Paul), so much so that to rectify this grey patch, at a very late stage Pope Benedict XIV corroborated lately also by Pope Pius XII ; they invented/concocted the belief in the corporeal assumption of Mary and defined it to be a divinely revealed dogma ( now one could see how the NTGospels had been revealed/fabricated/played with): that their Immaculate Mother of God, their ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life ( while they knew nothing about her historically, or if they knew they opted to conceal it from the public for their vested interests) was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory." The establishment of this dogma as “necessary to salvation” is widely taken to be an example of the Pope’s invoking papal infallibility (which in fact is a proof of Pope’s fallibility/sinfulness and his clear attempt at corrupting the Christian faith in the ages gone bye). So this is how Paul and Popes dealt with the Christianity; how cruel they had been to humanity? Would the Christians now realize it, if they wake up from their great slumber of two thousands+ years!
But Quran is graceful and magnanimous, it not only gave a lofty status to JesusYeshuaIssa he deserved but in its own style Quran made Mary one of the highest example of the believers till the end of the world. For detail, please read my earlier post in this thread.
Bridging gaps between religions and working for unity of all revealed religions with peaceful means
I had a discusssion with patty a Christian friend on an Islamic Forum, I copy one of the posts for comments of my friends here.
Patty wrote:
The belief in the corporeal assumption of Mary was formally declared to be dogma by Pope Benedict XIV in the encyclical De Festis B.V.M.; Roman Catholics must therefore hold the doctrine as being necessary to salvation. Pope Pius XII, in Munificentissimus Deus [1], reiterated “We pronounce, declare, and define it to be a divinely revealed dogma: that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory.” The establishment of this dogma as “necessary to salvation” is widely taken to be an example of the Pope’s invoking papal infallibility.
Paarsurrey wrote:
Patty! I do respect your religion and everybody else’s religion, but you know one should follow reason ,rationality and arguments, endowed by GodAllahYHWH to humans mercifully. Praise be to God the Creator of he Universe!
I have pasted the post here, as it is now more relevent here. May GodAllahYHWH guide us all! I hope all Christians join the discussion, please take it as a discussion for truth, not as a crusade.
Hi
As I wrote earlire,the Christians have neither given the status to JesusYeshuaIssa nor to MaryMeriumMaryam they deserved on merit, only under unjustified and clever influence of Paul who robbed them off their truthful honor only to establish his own hegemony over the simple and ignorant people called Christians, I am sorry to say, but that is a fact. As Paul was disrespectful to Jesus’ disciples so he belittled Mary so much so that one does not find any account of her life after when JesusYeshuaIssa and MaryMeriumMaryam last met at Galilee. Paul got Jesus cleverly ascended to heavens to pave his way for absolute hegemony over the church going people; and disciples and Mary he never cared about them. As pointed out by Patty, (this was not perhaps even known by the Popes who succeeded Paul), so much so that to rectify this grey patch, at a very late stage Pope Benedict XIV corroborated lately also by Pope Pius XII ; they invented/concocted the belief in the corporeal assumption of Mary and defined it to be a divinely revealed dogma ( now one could see how the NTGospels had been revealed/fabricated/played with): that their Immaculate Mother of God, their ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life ( while they knew nothing about her historically, or if they knew they opted to conceal it from the public for their vested interests) was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory." The establishment of this dogma as “necessary to salvation” is widely taken to be an example of the Pope’s invoking papal infallibility (which in fact is a proof of Pope’s fallibility/sinfulness and his clear attempt at corrupting the Christian faith in the ages gone bye). So this is how Paul and Popes dealt with the Christianity; how cruel they had been to humanity? Would the Christians now realize it, if they wake up from their great slumber of two thousands+ years!
But Quran is graceful and magnanimous, it not only gave a lofty status to JesusYeshuaIssa he deserved but in its own style Quran made Mary one of the highest example of the believers till the end of the world. For detail, please read my earlier post in this thread.
Bridging gaps between religions and working for unity of all revealed religions with peaceful means
H
Hellisreal
Guest
I thought Muslims also hold that Muhhamed was assumed into Paradise?
Or maybe not your sect that came later?
I think we need InJesus here to clarify.
Or maybe not your sect that came later?
I think we need InJesus here to clarify.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Muhammad definitely went into the heaven after his natural death as did JesusYeshuaIssa went into heaven after dieing a natural and respectful death ( not a cursed death on Cross as our Christian friends believe, from which he survived) at Sirinagar, Kashmir, India among the lost tribes of Israel, his own people.
While alive Muhammad was shown the heavens in a special spiritual vision,while his physical body was at home he was sleeping, he did not go physically.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
H
Hellisreal
Guest
Your problem is seeing the Cross as cursed.
It is far and away from that. In fact, it is the polar opposite.
How did Muhhamed die? Poison?
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
That is not my problem, that is what the Bible says and the Christian repeat it so often.Please check you bible. I respect JesusYeshuaIssa that is why I like to prove that he died a respectful and natural death.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
H
Hellisreal
Guest
The bible can be read by many people and many people can find whatever they want to find in it they look for.
As I can do with the Koran.
There is a deeper theology one may miss if reading the bible the way I see Muslims read it.
May I suggest, if you truly “bridge gaps” that you read Holy Father’s book,
Jesus of Nazereth? If only for the purpose of being better educated in Catholic theology?
D
dessert
Guest
Paarsurrey, if you continue to follow the Blessed Virgin Mary, she will lead you to the Jesus of the cross, as she was at the foot of the cross at His death.
This is what I believe God gave me an earthly mother but my perfect mother is the Viring Mary whom I have grown close to in the last year praying more through her intersessioon.
Dessert
V
Valke2
Guest
I believe his point was that hanging from a tree was viewed at the time as a cursed way to die.The bible can be read by many people and many people can find whatever they want to find in it they look for.
As I can do with the Koran.
There is a deeper theology one may miss if reading the bible the way I see Muslims read it.
May I suggest, if you truly “bridge gaps” that you read Holy Father’s book,
Jesus of Nazereth? If only for the purpose of being better educated in Catholic theology?
D
dessert
Guest
You believe in the prophets correct?
So what the prophetes foretold would take place?
The NT is the fullfillment of the OT.
The OT Moses; The NT Jesus.
Dessert
H
Hellisreal
Guest
And his point I understood. I asked him if Muhhamed was poisoned, and at every time in history that has been looked at pretty much the same way.
I wonder who would want to poison him?
B
BelFarfalla
Guest
A jew woman whose family he had killed and who had taken been taken as a slave. One account I read said that she poisoned him because scriptures say that a true prophet could not be poisoned. It was her test of him… and no doubt a lot of revenge and anger.
H
Hellisreal
Guest
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Please refer the following from NTBible:
Galatians 3:13
13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
Unquote
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
- Status