Virginia Holiday Battle Includes Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

[Havard]

abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/12/virginia-holiday-battle-includes-church-of-the-flying-spaghetti-monster/

This is my current (soon to be former) town. So sad that they do this. It’s such a lovely community.

 

[Dale_M]

So people know what this thread is about, here are some quotes from the ABC News article

A number of tongue-in-cheek nativity displays on a Virginia county courthouse lawn has divided the tight-knit community Leesburg right before the holidays and created an unusual scene.

Beside a Christmas tree and creche sits a large banner with a nativity scene in which baby Jesus has been replaced by a plate of spaghetti with googly eyes. A crowd that includes pirates and gnomes surrounds Jesus. At the bottom its message reads “Touched by an Angelhair.” The scene is the work of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monsters.

Elsewhere on the lawn, a skeleton in a Santa suit hangs on a cross.

There seem to be multiple displays on the courthouse lawn, some religious and others anti-religious. Here are some photos of the various displays, although it leans towards the atheist side.
washingtonpost.com/local/christmas-display-draws-controversy-in-loundoun-county/2011/12/16/gIQAX6qnyO_gallery.html#photo=1

I think the last photo in the series shows that it is possible for atheists to express their viewpoint without deliberately offending. It is a tastefully designed billboard which says:
*
Seasons Greetings

Peace, Love, Health and Happiness to All

Nova Atheists*

The billboard establishes an atheist presence without mocking the Christian presence.

 

[Havard]

Thanks Dale. I think there are three posters by the Atheist groups. I just walked by them tonight. One of them is fairly innocuous, I think it just says “Season Greetings”. One of them is more political, it says something about the Constitution keeping Church and State separate. And then there’s the “Touched by an Angelhair” one, where the Flying Spaghetti Monster is in the manger with Mary and Joseph.

There’s also a crucified skeleton in a Santa suit (actual display, not just a poster), but I don’t think it’s by the same group.

 

[Samson01]

I feel like going down there and getting some kindling…I grew up in Sterling and it wouldn’t be my first time at that courthouse. Are people that weak down there now?

 

[Langdell]

It shows how worried local governments are about being hit with an expensive lawsuit. This town evidently feels that it can’t allow Christmas and Hannukah displays on public property unless it also throws the door open to all sorts of atheist displays.

 

[BVM_1221]

It shows how worried local governments are about being hit with an expensive lawsuit. This town evidently feels that it can’t allow Christmas and Hannukah displays on public property unless it also throws the door open to all sorts of atheist displays.

Yah. That no-establishment-of-religion clause in the USA Constitution.

Perhaps I am not as bothered as much as I should be, because I live here in Los Angeles County. Nothing in the laws or constitution says you cannot have religious displays on privvate property…and do we have religious displays.

And what about all those anti-holidays and atheist displays on private property? Very very few. Lack of an audience, I guess

 

[Samson01]

So, whos’ down?

 

[Langdell]

Yah. That no-establishment-of-religion clause in the USA Constitution.

It’s kind of amusing that in order for atheists to rely on First Amendment jurisprudence in this area, they have to characterize atheism as a religion, whereas most atheists hold to the view that atheism is not a religion.

 

[TruthSeeker60]

I say that neither religious nor anti-religious monuments should be permitted on the grounds of a courthouse. The courthouse is not there to promote one group’s religion or another group’s attack on religion, both of which are violations of the first amendment because they would constitute government promotion of religion or anti-religion.

On the other hand, if religious people are permitted to use the courthouse grounds to promote their religion, others should be permitted to use the grounds to promote their parody religion.

 

[TruthSeeker60]

It’s kind of amusing that in order for atheists to rely on First Amendment jurisprudence in this area, they have to characterize atheism as a religion, whereas most atheists hold to the view that atheism is not a religion.

Theism (belief of god) and atheism (lack of belief in god) are not religions. Most religions are theistic, but some, like Buddhism aren’t.

Regardless, government allowing religious groups to use government property without allowing their detractors to also promote their ideas would constitute a promotion of that religion, and hence a violation of the first amendment.

 

[Langdell]

Theism (belief of god) and atheism (lack of belief in god) are not religions. Most religions are theistic, but some, like Buddhism aren’t.

Regardless, government allowing religious groups to use government property without allowing their detractors to also promote their ideas would constitute a promotion of that religion, and hence a violation of the first amendment.

Under current First Amendment law, an atheist group’s assertion of a constitutional right to have a display alongside Christian and Jewish displays would have to be asserted under the Free Exercise Clause. But in order to have a Free Exercise Clause claim, you need to show that you’re being denied your right to exercise your religion. For example, a socialist group does not have a First Amendment right to have a display alongside the Nativity scene and the menorah because socialism is not a religion. It’s a political philosophy, and the Constitution does not protect the free exercise of political philosophies.

 

[rlg94086]

In a strange way, I’m kind of glad that this is happening. The atheists are marginalizing themselves by showing how petty and intolerant they are.

When I was an atheist, I would have never thought of ridiculing others for their beliefs. I just didn’t personally believe.

 

[BVM_1221]

BTW, for those of you who may not understand the title of this thread, The Flying Spaghetti Monster :coffeeread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

 

[Dawnia]

How tacky.:nope:

 

[BVM_1221]

How tacky.:nope:

Only if the pasta is overcooked, which too many Americans do

 

[Poelice]

BTW, for those of you who may not understand the title of this thread, The Flying Spaghetti Monster :coffeeread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

They mock God by their pseudo-religion at their own peril! Those smug mockers are choosing their demise! How foolish!

 

[LiveCatholic]

They should all be forced to eat spaghetti until they’re stuffed… and then more! Then we’ll see how great they think the FSM is, after they have noodles coming out of their ears.

 

[Isolation]

They should all be forced to eat spaghetti until they’re stuffed… and then more! Then we’ll see how great they think the FSM is, after they have noodles coming out of their ears.

Sounds very Sev7en-esque, though I’ll be honest I hate these kinds of atheists more than any other too.

 

[LiveCatholic]

Sounds very Sev7en-esque, though I’ll be honest I hate these kinds of atheists more than any other too.

haha, wow I didn’t even mean to make the Se7en reference… Just thought a bit of theophagy would be an ironic ‘punishment’

 

[jimrob]

It’s always a problem when what starts as a joke finishes up as a quasi religion. That’s how Scientology came about. Perhaps we could infiltrate the CFSM and suggest they practice self denial, temperance and chastity - that should put a stop to their insulting behaviour.