Virginity and marriage.

[BlueEyedLady]

Then you’re just using each other for sex while selfishly avoiding responsibility for the consequences of sex (CHILDREN), even to the point of the cold blooded, paid assassination of your own child.

If you can’t see the problem with that, then of course feminisn can’t look extreme to you.

The bottom line is that if you 100% don’t want children then don’t get married. In fact, being unopen to children prohibits a valid marriage in the first place. I know you can’t understand that but since you seem to be somehow monogamous despite that, I wonder just what exactly you think marriage is for, if it’s not to create a stable environment for the raising of children?

It’s a women’s issue because it’s not MEN who are being asked to consume dangerously toxic hormones over long periods of time simply to avoid pregnancy.

Nor is it the man who would have a child ripped from inside them with risk of very dangerous complications.

Too late, I’ve been married for years. Are you advocating divorce?

You’re talking about marrying someone you’ve only met a couple of times. I think I’ll take your ideas of marriage with a grain of salt.

 

[SilverShadow22]

Too late, I’ve been married for years. Are you advocating divorce?

You’re talking about marrying someone you’ve only met a couple of times. I think I’ll take your ideas of marriage with a grain of salt.

No I’m advocating reconsidering your ideas about fertility.

And… Here comes the personal slam. I don’t have to have proven a fact firsthand to defend it as true.

I’m THINKING about marrying him. I’ll be TALKING about it after I’ve moved there and spent a year dating him.

I wouldn’t have thought you would insist that only face to face communication counts in building a relationship.

 

[LethalMouse]

What a terrible, anti intellectual comparison.

If I said “After seeing what men do…I don’t like men” you would have a point. Instead, I said “After seeing what happens when one person is given an inordinate amount of power over another, I want to avoid that system”.

I don’t know why the idea of women making their own life choices threatens you so much. I also wouldn’t want to put men under the thumb of women. We all deserve the right, and have the responsibility, to direct our own lives.

You argued earlier that it is okay for “spartan warrior” to be figurative but that “street criminal” is not allowed to be so and using such invalidated me lol.

You use words as a weapon to alter truth. You simpky dont say out loud your anger bc then you cant be self righteous.

You say the bold below because it casts away from what the issue is. You are wrapping up a sewmingly innocent sentence which actually means “why cant women murder babies???”

Big difference and one that allows advocates to prey on the weak minded.

Legalism works when in court or convincing weak minded people. Sadly you do much damage to the weakest women. You tear them apart and remake them in an image of scared, weakness and teach them to murder babies…

 

[BlueEyedLady]

And in the end I honestly believe feminism does more harm to women than men. Just as tbh I see RP doing the same as in more harm to men.

RP is a bastion for the scared and weak man riddled with partial truth.

I said before any women (or man) who needs to proclaim there “power” from the rooftops has none.

Feminism sends the weakest women into the biggest battles and RP does the same to men or sends themrunning from the battles that would otherwise forge them and create a strong person.

This part I will agree with wholeheartedly. RP doesn’t do anything to women because it’s so small and it’s adherents are so powerless (and overall closed off from women). But it makes men bitter, angry, lonely, and confused. The online feminist counterpart to this does the exact same to women. (Although, I always wonder what came first, the lack of self-efficacy or the silly online communities).

But if we’re talking real issues that people are dealing with in real life, then I have to say that I hope Paul Nungesser wins a lawsuit and changes the system. That’s not RP, that’s fighting a concrete, institutional injustice. Just like I support women who sue their employers and landlords for trying to fire or evict them for pregnancy.

 

[pensmama87]

Can we put the :slapfight: away? Seriously?

Someone’s going to get a :blackeye:.

 

[DarkLight]

Can we put the :slapfight: away? Seriously?

Someone’s going to get a :blackeye:.

At least I have something to read at work.

 

[SilverShadow22]

Actually, BEL, since you are not religious it isn’t really fair to expect you to agree that marriage is for children, or even that birth control is not acceptable.

But you’re in a long term stable relationship. Are you really going to say that if the birth control failed you would kill your child rather than raise it in what you say is a loving home?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

No I’m advocating reconsidering your ideas about fertility.

Hypothetical: I reconsider my views on having a child right now, and I decide it’s time to go off birth control. But let’s say hubby disagrees and wants to stick with the original plan (stopping birth control in 1-2 years). What do I do? Do I go against his wishes and try to unilaterally decide we’re going to be parents, or do I submit to his decision?

Totally hypothetical. Now would be a very bad time to have a baby, but if I really wanted it I could probably talk hubby into starting to look for a new apartment, grudgingly I’m sure.

 

[SilverShadow22]

Hypothetical: I reconsider my views on having a child right now, and I decide it’s time to go off birth control. But let’s say hubby disagrees and wants to stick with the original plan (stopping birth control in 1-2 years). What do I do? Do I go against his wishes and try to unilaterally decide we’re going to be parents, or do I submit to his decision?

Totally hypothetical. Now would be a very bad time to have a baby, but if I really wanted it I could probably talk hubby into starting to look for a new apartment, grudgingly I’m sure.

By ‘you’ I meant both people in the marriage. And by reconsider, I did not mean suddenly jump to the other side all on your own.

 

[pensmama87]

At least I have something to read at work.

Maybe I’m just getting old and feebleminded, but I haven’t been able to comprehend several pages’ worth of posts on this thread. And as an English major, I am lazy and demand clarity in writing so I can understand the points being made. I shouldn’t have to work hard to figure out that someone meant B, when they said A.

I think we may enter the twilight zone soon.:hypno:

 

[SilverShadow22]

Maybe I’m just getting old and feebleminded, but I haven’t been able to comprehend several pages’ worth of posts on this thread. And as an English major, I am lazy and demand clarity in writing so I can understand the points being made. I shouldn’t have to work hard to figure out that someone meant B, when they said A.

I think we may enter the twilight zone soon.:hypno:

As far as I’m concerned, everything has been fairly clear for quite awhile.

 

[LethalMouse]

This part I will agree with wholeheartedly. RP doesn’t do anything to women because it’s so small and it’s adherents are so powerless (and overall closed off from women). But it makes men bitter, angry, lonely, and confused. The online feminist counterpart to this does the exact same to women. (Although, I always wonder what came first, the lack of self-efficacy or the silly online communities).

But if we’re talking real issues that people are dealing with in real life, then I have to say that I hope Paul Nungesser wins a lawsuit and changes the system. That’s not RP, that’s fighting a concrete, institutional injustice. Just like I support women who sue their employers and landlords for trying to fire or evict them for pregnancy.

Idk the lawsuits so ill check that out later maybe lol.

But you attack on internet feminism appears you sort of ish agree with me BUT you claim that alll bad things feminism are small numbered.

Just as the hardcore catholic feminists claim your stance on abortion is limited to a small fringe factor.

But numbers refute both.

And you’d be surprised the numbers of RP peeps, they are just less united and not under one banner like feminism.

Tis a good thing IMO, but should they link no matter how close to a good cup of coffee it could seem I wont take the poison of… shall we call it Masculinism?? Lol

As you have done with the converse.

Nope, won’t join the charge, I’d rather stand alone than become the bad guy.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

By ‘you’ I meant both people in the marriage. And by reconsider, I did not mean suddenly jump to the other side all on your own.

Every 6 months or so we have the where-are-we-at-with-kids-and-what-would-we-do-if-an-accident-happened discussion. Way ahead of you on this.

But this illustrates my point about mens and womens issues being inextricably linked. It also illustrates the inherent tension between honoring your spouse as they define it vs how everyone else does. The other example is the SAHM. Lots of people argue that a woman’s place is in the home…but what if her husband wants her at work?

Life is complicated and issues like these are interesting to discuss for sure.

 

[LethalMouse]

In joining groups I note a special I saw.

It was a Prison gang whose leader disavowed the gang. Reason?

It was started of less criminally types and only for in prison safety. So obviously they had to do what they had to do… BUT outside of prison the gange went totally legit. Getting its ex cons jobs and helping adjust to society etc. It did alot of good for a time getting ex cons on thestraight and narrow.

But as just a fee decided to get out and use their affiliation to do crimes, in short order it went from a rehab group to a street gang.

Such is the way of groups

 

[SilverShadow22]

Every 6 months or so we have the where-are-we-at-with-kids-and-what-would-we-do-if-an-accident-happened discussion. Way ahead of you on this.

But this illustrates my point about mens and womens issues being inextricably linked. It also illustrates the inherent tension between honoring your spouse as they define it vs how everyone else does. The other example is the SAHM. Lots of people argue that a woman’s place is in the home…but what if her husband wants her at work?

Life is complicated and issues like these are interesting to discuss for sure.

This is all great as far as it goes but the essential point is that you said your plan comes before a human life… That inconvenience is a good reason to kill… That a child is an ‘accident’.

A woman’s place is where she best helps her family. Oh… That’s a man’s place, too. Hm.

My mother works and my father was a stay-at-home dad. I lived one side and plan to live the other. I’m not for hard and fast one size fits all rules.

Except the the rule that it is NEVER acceptable to kill your child.

 

[pensmama87]

As far as I’m concerned, everything has been fairly clear for quite awhile.

Well, that clears it up. I must be feebleminded.

 

[LethalMouse]

Well, that clears it up. I must be feebleminded.

Tbh beside previous threads with some similar participants, there was another similar topic thread active at the same time and I think we sort of defacto blended the two lol

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Idk the lawsuits so ill check that out later maybe lol.

But you attack on internet feminism appears you sort of ish agree with me BUT you claim that alll bad things feminism are small numbered.

Just as the hardcore catholic feminists claim your stance on abortion is limited to a small fringe factor.

But numbers refute both.

And you’d be surprised the numbers of RP peeps, they are just less united and not under one banner like feminism.

Tis a good thing IMO, but should they link no matter how close to a good cup of coffee it could seem I wont take the poison of… shall we call it Masculinism?? Lol

As you have done with the converse.

Nope, won’t join the charge, I’d rather stand alone than become the bad guy.

Internet feminism? The bastion of fat acceptance and really, really delicate feelings? No, I don’t have a lot of sympathy for those people. They are pretty much the exact same as RPers, just with different parts.

But tackling institutional issues is anything but whiney and pathetic. Right now, public schools are failing boys. It doesn’t make you hateful selfish to want to find a solution to that. It’s a quantifiable problem that should be addressed by leaders and educators of both sexes. There are institutional and civil issues facing women as well. Again, tackling those is not selfish or only looking out for ones own.

But, the people on sites like Jezebel and Dalrock are not people who are looking to solve problems and make the world more equitable. They are there to whine and point fingers. You’ll also find a lot of people in both groups who are at least ok with, if not actively for, advancing their own gender while holding back the other. But that’s not what I’m talking about here either.

You’re comparing my stance that women should be able to decide for themselves what they do in life to the RP stance that men should be in control of women. Your grounds for comparison is that both advocate for their own gender. The difference is, I don’t advocate at anyone else’s expense.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Except the the rule that it is NEVER acceptable to kill your child.

Ok…but I’m still not sure how this fits in with your claim that I want it both ways. You made it sound like I was benefiting greatly from marriage while neglecting my responsibility to have kids. Clearly, that’s not the case as hubby doesn’t want them now either. So I’m still not sure what you’re proposing.

 

[Jimbay]

You sure about that? I was accused of being a lesbian because I did not sleep around and kept myself chaste. Usually by men and because I would not sleep with them. It’s more about virgins being unconquered territory.

Yes, I’m confident of my statement despite your own experiences. Some men will push a little to get a reaction. Is it uncalled for and immature? Yes. But even in those situations there’s probably some grudging respect buried somewhere. The bigger question isn’t so much about what they say but what you’re going to do about it.