Visit of His Beatitude Sviatoslav, Patriarch of the Ukrainian Catholic Church, to the Eparchy of New Westminster, BC

  • Thread starter Thread starter ConstantineTG
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Editorial - Ukrainian Catholics look toward patriarchate
These are exciting times for the Canada’s Ukrainian Catholics. The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (UGCC) has enjoyed a renewal in the Ukraine and subsequently this joy has extended to their brothers and sisters in Canada and the world over.
Click to expand...
Significantly, it’s also an historic time as Major Archbishop Shevchuk brings the Ukrainian Bishops synod here. The synod coincides with the commemoration of the centenary of Blessed Nykyta Budka’s arrival in Canada, the first Ukrainian bishop. (The synod is rarely held outside Ukraine, Rome during the Soviet era.)
Click to expand...
On the back of this renewal, the major archbishop is injecting vibrancy back into the church. He has said he wants to visit every parish in the world to talk with parishioners. He is also very interested in ecumenical dialogue and has met with leaders of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, both Moscow and Kyiv patriarchates, as well as other Orthodox and Protestant leaders.
Click to expand...
 
ConstantineTG said:
Or an easier way is because the Bishops are Ukrainians, I can just bring out a case of Vodka, have a few rounds with them, maybe get them to ordain me then :D:D:D
Click to expand...
From what I’ve read, it would seems to have been more likely to be the ordaining bishop with the vodka… after all, in much of the 20th C, the omophorion was pretty much a promise of martyrdom… and the epitreachelion of government harassment.
 
Elizium23 said:
Editorial - Ukrainian Catholics look toward patriarchate
Click to expand...
A further, concluding quote from the op ed piece:
With the reemergence of the church in Ukraine after the Soviet troubles, the vibrancy for the worldwide Ukrainian church injected by the election of Major Archbishop Shevchuk, the publication of the Catechism of the UGCC, and the implementation of Vision 2020, I believe His Beatitude will lead the church into its elevation to patriarchate by 2020. It seems inevitable.
Click to expand...
While many pray for this to happen (myself included), it seems it will only be possible if a “peace” is brokered with the ROC and the three Ukrainian Orthodox Churches. It does not appear that Rome would be willing to elevate the status of the Kievan Church at the risk of ecumenical progress, which goes nowhere without the ROC on board. That said, I don’t think anyone is better and more credibly equipped to facilitate that result than His Beatitude Sviatoslav himself.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
A further, concluding quote from the op ed piece:

While many pray for this to happen (myself included), it seems it will only be possible if a “peace” is brokered with the ROC and the three Ukrainian Orthodox Churches. It does not appear that Rome would be willing to elevate the status of the Kievan Church at the risk of ecumenical progress, which goes nowhere without the ROC on board. That said, I don’t think anyone is better and more credibly equipped to facilitate that result than His Beatitude Sviatoslav himself.
Click to expand...
I don’t know if the UGCC position has changed, but our past Patriarchs and Metropolitans have said they will not pursue the Patriarchate if there is a canonical Orthodox Patriarchate within Ukraine. The idea is to have a canonical Ukrainian Patriarch, whether it is Orthodox or Catholic.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I don’t know if the UGCC position has changed, but our past Patriarchs and Metropolitans have said they will not pursue the Patriarchate if there is a canonical Orthodox Patriarchate within Ukraine. The idea is to have a canonical Ukrainian Patriarch, whether it is Orthodox or Catholic.
Click to expand...
Did not at least one of His Beatitude’s predecessors attempt to ordain bishops without Rome’s approval?

You may be right at present, but from what I have read and heard of Vision 2020 (including at a recent UGCC sponsored pilgrimage), Patriarchal status is a goal of the Church (by the year 2020, as the name implies).
 
ByzCathCantor said:
Did not at least one of His Beatitude’s predecessors attempt to ordain bishops without Rome’s approval?

You may be right at present, but from what I have read and heard of Vision 2020 (including at a recent UGCC sponsored pilgrimage), Patriarchal status is a goal of the Church (by the year 2020, as the name implies).
Click to expand...
Well, Russia doesn’t want it it happen whether in the CC or OC. And Rome doesn’t want to upset Russia. So I do not know. I don’t know what the big deal is, Russia has granted autocephally to other Churches. Why not Ukraine?
 
ConstantineTG said:
Well, Russia doesn’t want it it happen whether in the CC or OC. And Rome doesn’t want to upset Russia. So I do not know.
Click to expand...
I notice some Ukrainians often claim this rationale. There are three other Major Archepiscopal Churches. Why didn’t the Pope just make them Patriarchates? What secular powers did the Pope not want to upset that caused him not to promote those Churches to Patriarchal status in the first place. Think about it. The Pope’s motives may be a lot more pure than you think.
I don’t know what the big deal is, Russia has granted autocephally to other Churches. Why not Ukraine?
Click to expand...
Didn’t the UOC-KP schism from the MP? Maybe that has something to do with it. But you bring up a good point - namely, what led up to the schism?

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
I notice some Ukrainians often claim this rationale. There are three other Major Archepiscopal Churches. Why didn’t the Pope just make them Patriarchates? What secular powers did the Pope not want to upset that caused him not to promote those Churches to Patriarchal status in the first place. Think about it. The Pope’s motives may be a lot more pure than you think.

Blessings,
Marduk
Click to expand...
What do you mean?
 
mardukm said:
I notice some Ukrainians often claim this rationale. There are three other Major Archepiscopal Churches. ** Why didn’t the Pope just make them** Patriarchates? What secular powers did the Pope not want to upset that caused him not to promote those Churches to Patriarchal status in the first place. Think about it. The Pope’s motives may be a lot more pure than you think.
Click to expand...
In the Romanian case, I believe the reasons are the same as for the UGCC: namely, creating a new patriarchate of Byzantine Rite would damage Catholic-Eastern Orthodox relations. However, the fact that Rome hasn’t promoted the Syro-Malabar Church (or the Syro-Malankara Church for that matter) to a patriarchate suggests to me that Rome does not, perhaps, wish to create *any *new patriarchates.
 
mardukm said:
I notice some Ukrainians often claim this rationale. There are three other Major Archepiscopal Churches. Why didn’t the Pope just make them Patriarchates? What secular powers did the Pope not want to upset that caused him not to promote those Churches to Patriarchal status in the first place. Think about it. The Pope’s motives may be a lot more pure than you think.
Click to expand...
Well, Ukraine’s claim is of course her size and maturity of the Church. As is the model in the East, Patriarchates are established if the Church is mature to stand on its own. Given the UGCC is the largest Catholic Church besides Rome, plus it has shown its ability to govern itself and keep the faith amidst persecution, the Patriarchate is the next logical step, it has always been for many other Churches.
mardukm said:
Didn’t the UOC-KP schism from the MP? Maybe that has something to do with it. But you bring up a good point - namely, what led up to the schism?

Blessings,
Marduk
Click to expand...
Political reasons of course. After decades under Soviet rule, the Ukrainians do not want to be under anything Russian, political or ecclesiastical. I mean, even Churches like ROCOR were suspicious of the Moscow Patriarchate during the Communist rule. There are deeper wounds with the Ukrainians and for the nationalists it does not make any sense for them to be under Russia in any way, shape or form.
 
mardukm said:
I don’t know what the big deal is, Russia has granted autocephally to other Churches. Why not Ukraine?
Click to expand...
I don’t think that’s a reason not to grant autocephaly. Seems to me that if there were a Ukrainian patriarchate, the UOC-KP would be highly motivated to unite with it.
Click to expand...
 
Peter_J said:
I don’t think that’s a reason not to grant autocephaly. Seems to me that if there were a Ukrainian patriarchate, the UOC-KP would be highly motivated to unite with it.
Click to expand...
If there is an impression of phyletism (which I believe the schism portrays), why wouldn’t that be a reason?

Blessings,
Marduk
 
A general question for anyone: Is the UOC-KP favorable to a (canonical) Ukrainian Orthodox Patriarch, or would they see this more as a “rival”?
 
Peter_J said:
A general question for anyone: Is the UOC-KP favorable to a (canonical) Ukrainian Orthodox Patriarch, or would they see this more as a “rival”?
Click to expand...
That is the reason for their existence. I guess whether it is recognized through them or through another group, they would probably secede into that group. They have been trying to get recognition from the EP but of course the EP knows if they recognize the UOC-KP, it would create trouble with the ROC. The EP has already recognized the autocephally of the diaspora Ukrainian Orthodox Church, so they are neither KP or MP.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Well, Russia doesn’t want it it happen whether in the CC or OC. And Rome doesn’t want to upset Russia.
Click to expand...
That seems to be the case
ConstantineTG said:
I don’t know what the big deal is, Russia has granted autocephally to other Churches. Why not Ukraine?
Click to expand...
It’s a very big deal to the ROC, which originated from Kiev, yet now wants to be its master. To give in to the Ukrainians would be to cede to the Kievan Church as the more ancient church from whence it came.

One might say that it appears to be an issue of … primacy :confused:
 
ConstantineTG said:
That is the reason for their existence. I guess whether it is recognized through them or through another group, they would probably secede into that group.
Click to expand...
By “through them” you mean something like the Orthodox Churches issuing a statement saying “The UOC-KP is the real Ukrainian Orthodox Church.”? 🤷
ConstantineTG said:
The EP has already recognized the autocephally of the diaspora Ukrainian Orthodox Church, so they are neither KP or MP.
Click to expand...
I would have to disagree with the word “autocephally” in that sentence.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
That seems to be the case

It’s a very big deal to the ROC, which originated from Kiev, yet now wants to be its master. To give in to the Ukrainians would be to cede to the Kievan Church as the more ancient church from whence it came.
Click to expand...
That’s a good observation. Never thought of it that way.
One might say that it appears to be an issue of … primacy :confused:
Click to expand...
Sounds like it.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top