Vocation for repentant homosexuals

[New2Catholicism]

Hi everyone, I tried to search for similar threads, so sorry if I’m repeating a conversation.

In any case, until I decided to join the Catholic Church, I had been a sexually active homosexual since I was 15. (I’m 26 now.) I understand the teaching of the Church and I accept it, and being gay will be the first thing I will confess on Monday during my first confession before Confirmation. (That and voting for Obama are the two biggies)

But I also strongly feel that I have a vocation to religious life and/or the priesthood. And I understand that the current position of the Church is to deny ordination to men with “deep-seated homosexual tendencies”. So my question is, how “deep-seated” do the tendencies have to be in order to be prevented from becoming a monk or priest, and would I be considered to have “deep-seated homosexual tendencies”?

As I said before, I completely accept the teaching of the Magisterium on this issue, and my goal would not be to continue to be involved in the gay culture if I were allowed to enter religious life (I am already separating myself from the culture, now that I will be Catholic soon). My point is that I wouldn’t be trying to change the priesthood from within. If anything, I think I actually would be more traditional than most people would appreciate.

So, if I feel particularly drawn to religious life or the priesthood, is this something I should pursue, or should I let it go? I think back to St. Augustine for example as someone who lead a notoriously hedonistic life before his conversion, and I would like to follow his example to devout religious life and hopefully sainthood, God willing.

Please pray for me as I try to sort this out; pray for others who are discerning their vocations, and for their spiritual directors.

Pax,

Jeremy

 

[AveSantaMaria]

Personally, there exists some promiscuity and leniency on doctrine in some quarters of religious life so a repentant homosexual who is strongly committed to enforcing Catholic doctrine on this area would be an enormous God-send!! :clapping::dancing: Hardly can anyone speak convincingly to others, no matter how right one is, without them feeling that you understand their issues.

But important areas to consider

1. It will be a severe struggle and uphill battle and fight in spiritual warfare. The reward is great as you are doing the most necessary and vital work for the Church, even more necessary than mission work as you will be strengthening other shepherds who do mission work and you have “inside knowledge”
2. You must make sure that you are truly capable of living a reformed lifestyle and not falling back into sin or adopting self-serving but false ideology over the long run. I would recommend that you wait several years before you make such a big jump to practice greater self-discipline and long-term commitment. Say you wait 2 to 4 years, you still have a good 40 years left as a priest or monk. During this time you can also read on your own about the religious life, explore different orders, develop a very sincere and true devotion to Christ through Mary as frequent and devout recitation of the Rosary and Divine Mercy Chaplet can help control negative impulses.

 

[New2Catholicism]

Well, I’m getting ready to start grad school in the fall, so I wouldn’t be available to answer a vocation for 2 years anyway. But assuming that I were able to persevere through grad school and still feel a vocation to religious life, would the Church ignore my past life? I ask because I understand the spot the Church is regarding child abuse, so a former homosexual might be looked upon more sceptically than someone who converted from a different sin, as it were.

1. You must make sure that you are truly capable of living a reformed lifestyle and not falling back into sin or adopting self-serving but false ideology over the long run. I would recommend that you wait several years before you make such a big jump to practice greater self-discipline and long-term commitment. Say you wait 2 to 4 years, you still have a good 40 years left as a priest or monk. During this time you can also read on your own about the religious life, explore different orders, develop a very sincere and true devotion to Christ through Mary as frequent and devout recitation of the Rosary and Divine Mercy Chaplet can help control negative impulses.

 

[Cloisters]

Nobody is born gay. I hope you realize that. What you were likely doing was acting on temptations. Once you get reconciled with the Church, and start receiving Our Lord, you’ll be able to enter into a much more personal relationship with Him. A spiritual director will be a must.

In the interim, concentrate on your graduate school, and realize that the Holy Ghost works on attraction. Just sit and be there for Him. He will let you know what to do.

HTH.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[BSHoop96]

Nobody is born gay. I hope you realize that. What you were likely doing was acting on temptations. Once you get reconciled with the Church, and start receiving Our Lord, you’ll be able to enter into a much more personal relationship with Him. A spiritual director will be a must.

In the interim, concentrate on your graduate school, and realize that the Holy Ghost works on attraction. Just sit and be there for Him. He will let you know what to do.

HTH.

Blessings,
Cloisters

I hope you realize that you shouldn’t state that as fact.

To the OP… I agree with the suggestion to wait several years to see if this is something you can really do. And pray a lot while you’re waiting for guidance and help.

 

[New2Catholicism]

Yeah, I don’t wanna get into a nature/nurture debate about being gay; frankly it doesn’t matter. But either way, I’m thankful to God for giving me the free will to have made the mistake of being gay/acting gay: God lets us sin so we can learn from our mistakes. And being immersed in the gay culture has subjected me to persecution,as it were, (however unintentionally self-inflicted it may have been) but by allowing me to sin and subject myself to “homophobia” God let me develop an emotional skin thick enough to handle being an out-and-proud Catholic. I hope that all makes sense.

I hope you realize that you shouldn’t state that as fact.

To the OP… I agree with the suggestion to wait several years to see if this is something you can really do. And pray a lot while you’re waiting for guidance and help.

 

[turtle18]

I am a women…I feel I have a call to the priesthood…obviously I can’t answer the call because I am a woman and the Church teaches that women can’t be ordained.

I am a married man…I feel I have a call to the priesthood…the church teaches I can’t because I have to be single to be ordained to the priesthood. (unless you are a married convert)

I am a gay man…I feel I have a call to the priesthood…the church teaches a gay man cannot be ordained. I go ahead and go for ordination because I feel somehow my case warrants special exemption, namely being that I am gay, completely oblivious to the fact there are many types of people the church teaches can’t be called into the priesthood. I lie about my sexual preference and history and am ordained a priest. Not only have I lied to gain ordination, I have also been disobedient. Now what is wrong with that picture?

So what is the the difference in the three cases: In the first two, it is obvious a woman is a woman and a married man is a married man. It is not obvious a man is a homosexual so the Church has to trust him at his word. If you have to lie about, who is your Master? Who is the Father of all Lies?

 

[New2Catholicism]

Well, the difference is that the Church has definitive teachings on the ordination of women and married men, whereas the teachings on the ordination of homosexuals seem to be (unfortunately) open to interpretation. I would much rather just have an answer one way or the other, and if the Church feels that I am truly not called to the priesthood, then I will lovingly obey her. Nowhere have I claimed to want an exception, only clarification and direction.

I’m a little confused about your comment about having to lie about anything; I think I’ve been pretty upfront and forthcoming and I hope anyone else who reads this thread would agree with me. Perhaps you should read the thread from the beginning, but if I’ve misunderstood your point, please let me know. I wonder perhaps you think I intend on hiding my past throughout my discernment process, when instead I want to be open about my past and also about my conversion and see where the Church would have me do the most good.

As far as the Church having to take someone on their word, then what is the point of confession? If the Church will administer to me the Sacrament of Reconcilliation with all that goes with it, but then say, “well, evenso, we can’t trust that you’ve really changed” then either they didn’t believe the person when they were confessing and shouldn’t have in good conscience given absolution to begin with, or the Church doesn’t accept the validity of her own Sacraments.

Please don’t take me to be argumentative; if I have missed a point, do correct me.

I am a women…I feel I have a call to the priesthood…obviously I can’t answer the call because I am a woman and the Church teaches that women can’t be ordained.

I am a married man…I feel I have a call to the priesthood…the church teaches I can’t because I have to be single to be ordained to the priesthood. (unless you are a married convert)

I am a gay man…I feel I have a call to the priesthood…the church teaches a gay man cannot be ordained. I go ahead and go for ordination because I feel somehow my case warrants special exemption, namely being that I am gay, completely oblivious to the fact there are many types of people the church teaches can’t be called into the priesthood. I lie about my sexual preference and history and am ordained a priest. Not only have I lied to gain ordination, I have also been disobedient. Now what is wrong with that picture?

So what is the the difference in the three cases: In the first two, it is obvious a woman is a woman and a married man is a married man. It is not obvious a man is a homosexual so the Church has to trust him at his word. If you have to lie about, who is your Master? Who is the Father of all Lies?

 

[AveSantaMaria]

I don’t think that the Church has any teaching disallowing the ordination of gay men. Yet, the Church does disallow “deep-seated homosexual tendencies.” This was instituted soon after the sex abuse scandal in the Church, that was unfortunately represented in the mainstream media as a pedophile scandal, ignoring the homosexual nature of the scandal.

I have one question though: why do you consider yourself a ‘homosexual’? Why aren’t you a man with disordered homosexual desires, instead of a ‘homosexual’? I strongly suggest that you pursue a spiritual director, especially one from Opus Dei opusdei.us/ , and take the discernment process to him. Be completely open about your temptations and how you feel and he can guide you as to whether or not your tendencies are too “deap-seated.” However, I strongly and powerfully believe that with regular prayer and Daily Mass, (When I say regular prayer, I am talking perhaps 15 decades of the Rosary a day) your tendencies may be put under control.

 

[AveSantaMaria]

Courage Apostolate couragerc.net/

Are you or a loved one experiencing homosexual attractions and looking for answers?

Courage, an apostolate of the Roman Catholic Church, ministers to those with same-sex attractions and their loved ones. We have been endorsed by the Pontifical Council for the Family and our beloved John Paul II said of this ministry, **“COURAGE is doing the work of God!” ** We also have an outreach called Encourage which ministers to relatives and friends of persons with same-sex attractions.

From our website you will learn about homosexuality and chastity. By developing an interior life of chastity, which is the universal call to all Christians, one can move beyond the confines of the homosexual identity to a more complete on in Christ.

In Courage you will get to know men and women who share in your concerns, meeting them online through our Listservs, or in person at Chapter Meetings, Conferences, Days of Recollection, and Retreats.

Come see what we are about. Browse our pages. Get to know our community. You’ll be glad you did!

 

[TracyJ]

Hi everyone, I tried to search for similar threads, so sorry if I’m repeating a conversation.

In any case, until I decided to join the Catholic Church, I had been a sexually active homosexual since I was 15. (I’m 26 now.) I understand the teaching of the Church and I accept it, and being gay will be the first thing I will confess on Monday during my first confession before Confirmation. (That and voting for Obama are the two biggies)

But I also strongly feel that I have a vocation to religious life and/or the priesthood. And I understand that the current position of the Church is to deny ordination to men with “deep-seated homosexual tendencies”. So my question is, how “deep-seated” do the tendencies have to be in order to be prevented from becoming a monk or priest, and would I be considered to have “deep-seated homosexual tendencies”?

As I said before, I completely accept the teaching of the Magisterium on this issue, and my goal would not be to continue to be involved in the gay culture if I were allowed to enter religious life (I am already separating myself from the culture, now that I will be Catholic soon). My point is that I wouldn’t be trying to change the priesthood from within. If anything, I think I actually would be more traditional than most people would appreciate.

So, if I feel particularly drawn to religious life or the priesthood, is this something I should pursue, or should I let it go? I think back to St. Augustine for example as someone who lead a notoriously hedonistic life before his conversion, and I would like to follow his example to devout religious life and hopefully sainthood, God willing.

Please pray for me as I try to sort this out; pray for others who are discerning their vocations, and for their spiritual directors.

Pax,

Jeremy

You should definitely pursue the priesthood if you believe that God is calling you.
If you are called, everything will work out.
Sexuality is only one aspect of a person but it’s a powerful aspect.
What is it about the priesthood that appeals to you?

 

[Cloisters]

I hope you realize that you shouldn’t state that as fact.

To the OP… I agree with the suggestion to wait several years to see if this is something you can really do. And pray a lot while you’re waiting for guidance and help.

I will state it as a fact, and will shed my own blood to defend it.

Tis what the Church teaches.

I have worked with those who are tended to SSA, and I can solemnly assure you that nobody is born gay.

Being gay either comes from abusive childhoods, or massive temptations. The Bible does not lie–Satan does.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[AveSantaMaria]

I will state it as a fact, and will shed my own blood to defend it.

Tis what the Church teaches.

I have worked with those who are tended to SSA, and I can solemnly assure you that nobody is born gay.

Being gay either comes from abusive childhoods, or massive temptations. The Bible does not lie–Satan does.

Blessings,
Cloisters

Thank you for elaborating on this! Do you think that you might elaborate more? I have encountered people who say they have had homosexual desires since early childhood, so I am assuming that it was something they were born with. I also have encountered research saying that male homosexual brains are more like female heterosexual brains than male heteroseuxal brains are and female homosexual brains are more like male heterosexual brains than female heterosexual brains are.

 

[justagirl]

Cloisters, I didn’t think the Church took a stance on whether same-sex attractions were from birth or formed in childhood. The Church generally stays out of these types of arguments because, in the end, it doesn’t affect anything – these people, like everyone else, are still be called to chastity whether or not they’re born with certain sinful, disordered temptations or develop them early in life. I don’t think people are “born gay” any more than alcoholics are born alcoholics, but could you show me where has the Church made such a statement? I’ve never seen it. Thanks!

 

[Cloisters]

Thank you for elaborating on this! Do you think that you might elaborate more? I have encountered people who say they have had homosexual desires since early childhood, so I am assuming that it was something they were born with. I also have encountered research saying that male homosexual brains are more like female heterosexual brains than male heteroseuxal brains are and female homosexual brains are more like male heterosexual brains than female heterosexual brains are.

This has to be approached from a wholistic point of view–not just science. Body, mind, and soul, and unfortunately, today, there is such a huge shortage of spiritual directors with good discernment that such things are usually not addressed.

Then we have the presence of sex hormones in the water, which is from the shrugging off of parental responsibility. (A/k/a the birth control pill).

Y’all have been overwhelmed by the media, which is full of homosexuals, telling you that yes, a person is born gay. They’re doing that as a form of self-defense. They don’t want to face up to what happened to them as children–or even as teens or adults. Children also have NATURAL homosexual tendencies–remember when all the little boys thought all the little girls had kooties, and vice versa? Whenever we are scared, we go where we feel safest, don’t we? Then we stick with the same sex, because the opposite sex offended us. But that doesn’t cover all the bases, though. I don’t know how many drs have told me that gays are some of the most unhappy people to whom they minister.

I’ve been through all this myself. Nobody can tell me that anybody is born gay. I know for a fact that one gay teacher can make all the guys in the class gay because he was a sexual preditor (this actually happened). Just because someone touches you as a child does not mean that you have to keep living that lie. That’s the main point I’m trying to make.

First and foremost, our Tradition, which comes from the Bible, states that “thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind.” That is my authority, and the Bible will endure even when these souls who have given themselves up to temptation are no longer in existence in bodily form.

The d. knows his time is short, so he’s pulling out all the stops. The one thing that he knows God hates is abomination. The d. is doing what he can to destroy humanity to spite God. Try to see it from that point of view, and virtue sure looks more appealing.

HTH.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[Cloisters]

Cloisters, I didn’t think the Church took a stance on whether same-sex attractions were from birth or formed in childhood. The Church generally stays out of these types of arguments because, in the end, it doesn’t affect anything – these people, like everyone else, are still be called to chastity whether or not they’re born with certain sinful, disordered temptations or develop them early in life. I don’t think people are “born gay” any more than alcoholics are born alcoholics, but could you show me where has the Church made such a statement? I’ve never seen it. Thanks!

It’s in Tradition–taken from the Bible.

God is Spirit, and must be worshiped in Spirit and in Truth.

SSA is not truth. Therefore, anyone with SSA should figure out why they are having such tendencies (and 9 times out of 10 they are simply temptations, so start there).

I’ve been working in vocations long enough to know that a person who claims to be SSA has issues that need to be resolved. If they are repentant, like new2catholicism is, then they simply need to go to confession, and start in on “Second Virginity.” He should pray especially for others who are “left behind.” I consider new2catholicism’s conversion to be a manifestation of answer to prayer that I’ve made for the conversion of gays.

Prayer does work–and can work on this particular segment of society. Please extend charity to them and pray–especially the Divine Mercy.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[New2Catholicism]

Well, I only described myself as homosexual for ease of explanation; although it used to be how I define myself, it’s not the first word that comes to mind when I think of myself. I think now it would just be Catholic. Also, the secular gay culture and religious communities have slightly different definitions of the same words, so sometimes that leads to confusion. As for the spiritual director, I am lucky enough to start spiritual direction soon after my confirmation this Easter. I was just curious what I might expect when I bring these topics up, hence the OP

Jeremy

I have one question though: why do you consider yourself a ‘homosexual’? Why aren’t you a man with disordered homosexual desires, instead of a ‘homosexual’? I strongly suggest that you pursue a spiritual director, especially one from Opus Dei opusdei.us/ , and take the discernment process to him. Be completely open about your temptations and how you feel and he can guide you as to whether or not your tendencies are too “deap-seated.” However, I strongly and powerfully believe that with regular prayer and Daily Mass, (When I say regular prayer, I am talking perhaps 15 decades of the Rosary a day) your tendencies may be put under control.

 

[New2Catholicism]

From my own perspective, I am less likely to take a firm stand one way or the other on nature/nurture like Cloisters does, though I tend to lean more towards nature. But in the end, the cause is irrelevant, and I thank Cloisters and all the others who have prayed for conversions in general and the conversions of gays

It’s in Tradition–taken from the Bible.

God is Spirit, and must be worshiped in Spirit and in Truth.

SSA is not truth. Therefore, anyone with SSA should figure out why they are having such tendencies (and 9 times out of 10 they are simply temptations, so start there).

I’ve been working in vocations long enough to know that a person who claims to be SSA has issues that need to be resolved. If they are repentant, like new2catholicism is, then they simply need to go to confession, and start in on “Second Virginity.” He should pray especially for others who are “left behind.” I consider new2catholicism’s conversion to be a manifestation of answer to prayer that I’ve made for the conversion of gays.

Prayer does work–and can work on this particular segment of society. Please extend charity to them and pray–especially the Divine Mercy.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[Other_Eric]

The answer is clear: you have no authentic calling within the Church as long as you obstinately persist with your disgusting appetite. If your faith and resolve are genuine, healing will come. At least as an individual who has his sexual impulses directed to the proper gender, you have the possibility of bearing some fruit for the Church. Without that, every attempt at “morality” will be nothing other than a mockery and a fraud. Either become the man that God created you to be or be honest enough to admit to yourself how shallow your pursuit of Him likely is.

 

[justagirl]

The answer is clear: you have no authentic calling within the Church as long as you obstinately persist with your disgusting appetite.

We are all sinners and have various disgusting appetites toward sin. The distinction comes between those who recognize and successfully resist their sinful inclinations (like New2Catholicism) and those who do not.