M
Michael_Saint
Guest
St. Augustine, by the way, was not married, but lived with a woman and had a child out of wedlock.
- Status
M
Michael_Saint
Guest
D_Hall, spiritual direction is a wise step. There are many indicators that you might be called to celibacy, and yet there are indicators that you might be called to remain in the world. Another option might be a “consecrated single” person - which is one who is called to celibacy while remaining in the world. But keep in mind - many of the things you mentioned (reading, listening to music, play computer, etc.) you can still do as a priest or religious. When I was in the seminary I had all kinds of leisure activities, and as a priest you will not only have the opportunity, but it will be required.
I think at this point (you seem very young yet) that you should be seeking a healthy “balance”. Your days should be spent with a good healthy balance of prayer and liturgy as well as your other activities (baseball, time with friends and family, etc.). In time, and with spiritual direction, the choice will become more clear.
Don’t be in a rush.
M
Michael_Saint
Guest
First, most celibates will tell you the reason they went that route is that they discovered, they knew, that the “sign” would not satisfy them.
Second, what if all Catholics became celibate? That is a question one person asked a priest one time, when he was explaining that in the perfect world, all of us would be perfectly holy, and thus celibate (because all who are in heaven are celibate). His response? “Oh, what a glorious end to the world that would be!”.
Third, some married people are holy than some celibate people. This happens because some married people cooperate with the grace they have been given, and some celibates do not cooperate with the even greater grace they have been given.
Fourth, try not to think too much about these things. Just study the issue more. You will drive yourself nuts trying to figure it out.
D
D_Hall
Guest
Its slightly more than that as well…Not only do I feel that celibacy/religious life is the path to be holiest, being totally poor and dependent on God and constantly helping others I feel is the truest way. That is what causes the most turmoil in my mind. Living the most perfect life on this Earth, in my mind, would be living like St. Francis or Mother Theresa.
Its hard for me to say I want marriage, mainly because I don’t know what it is like to be really in love with someone. I’m more in love with the idea of being in love. But every time I’m attracted to a girl, I feel like she would take away from myself being holy.
Its not even as if I want to be a priest/celibate, I am just trying to figure out how to be as holy as possible. My parents are wonderful people, but I feel as if they would also be holier if they became religious. Its just all so confusing and discouraging, its hard for me to look forward to anything anymore.
Its hard for me to say I want marriage, mainly because I don’t know what it is like to be really in love with someone. I’m more in love with the idea of being in love. But every time I’m attracted to a girl, I feel like she would take away from myself being holy.
Its not even as if I want to be a priest/celibate, I am just trying to figure out how to be as holy as possible. My parents are wonderful people, but I feel as if they would also be holier if they became religious. Its just all so confusing and discouraging, its hard for me to look forward to anything anymore.
P
Pro-Life_Teen
Guest
Ok, this has to hold up. Michael Saint, you are making it sound as if marriage is inherently a bad thing. This is not true! Celibacy, holy orders or otherwise, is a very noble calling. I have nothing against believing that a nun has a different, higher, holiness than a housewife- she may have time to focus on God more, for one. I see people who have taken holy orders are special. But this does not mean that marriage is a ‘worse’ option, or that to be married if the incorrect choice.
Marriage is a Sacrament of the Church. The Lord performed His first miracle at a wedding. Vocation means that one is called to a certain life- some are called to have families, others are not.
D_Hall, you seem scrupulous. Like you want to be perfect for The Lord. The same conversation came up between my father and myself a few weeks ago- I was lamenting against venial sins because I wished to be perfect. My dad replied that I am not perfect- no mortal is save The Lord and His Mother. So I should relax, go to Communion, receive His Grace and continue to live. We cannot deprive ourselves of joy and lock ourselves us in hope that we do not sin and do not lose sight of God- very very few are called to such a thing. And even cloistered nuns allow visitors to come talk to them through a screen.
The Lord made this world. He made you, your friends, your parents. His Sacraments include Marriage and Holy Orders. And He made sex between husband and wife holy, a manner in which to bring children into the world.
We are to be holy in whatever we do. Some are called to holy celibacy and poverty, others can be holy in different settings. Many a saint was wed, or a king, yet made certain to love The Lord.
You might be called to an extreme vocation. But first, relax. Think about this in a way that does not denote one option as ‘the better one’ so you feel you need to pick that to satisfy The Lord.
God Bless you, hope you find the answer you are looking for.
Marriage is a Sacrament of the Church. The Lord performed His first miracle at a wedding. Vocation means that one is called to a certain life- some are called to have families, others are not.
D_Hall, you seem scrupulous. Like you want to be perfect for The Lord. The same conversation came up between my father and myself a few weeks ago- I was lamenting against venial sins because I wished to be perfect. My dad replied that I am not perfect- no mortal is save The Lord and His Mother. So I should relax, go to Communion, receive His Grace and continue to live. We cannot deprive ourselves of joy and lock ourselves us in hope that we do not sin and do not lose sight of God- very very few are called to such a thing. And even cloistered nuns allow visitors to come talk to them through a screen.
The Lord made this world. He made you, your friends, your parents. His Sacraments include Marriage and Holy Orders. And He made sex between husband and wife holy, a manner in which to bring children into the world.
We are to be holy in whatever we do. Some are called to holy celibacy and poverty, others can be holy in different settings. Many a saint was wed, or a king, yet made certain to love The Lord.
You might be called to an extreme vocation. But first, relax. Think about this in a way that does not denote one option as ‘the better one’ so you feel you need to pick that to satisfy The Lord.
God Bless you, hope you find the answer you are looking for.
A
Amber2
Guest
Dear D_Hall
I think that West’s book is for married people and people who are considering marriage. And it is a book about marriage and about what a beautiful and holy calling marriage is. Not every book that speaks about marriage has to speak about celibacy. Also I certainly read a ton of books that only praise religious life and not marriage, and no one says anything against that.
Also I fail to see why we always have to hear this thing that religious life is a higher calling than marriage. It certainly makes people who are called to marriage feel a bit strange sometimes. Thologically I understand it but really in my heart of heart I do believe that a calling is a very very personal thing. If God calls ME to married life then how can someone tell me that a higher calling is celibacy? I mean, the highest calling and duty of every christian man and woman is to strive to do Gods will for her/him. That must be the ultimate goal. Also the highest calling is to become HOLY, to partake in Gods life. Religious people don’t do that more than married people, per se. But God created us as individuals with individual roles and missions. Let us all strive for HIS will and don’t mess it up with our fancy ideas about what is more high or low. God does not have favorites. In the end it is the love of God that matters.
Best regards,
Amber (called to a beautiful marriage by Almighty God)
Sincerely, Amber
I think that West’s book is for married people and people who are considering marriage. And it is a book about marriage and about what a beautiful and holy calling marriage is. Not every book that speaks about marriage has to speak about celibacy. Also I certainly read a ton of books that only praise religious life and not marriage, and no one says anything against that.
Also I fail to see why we always have to hear this thing that religious life is a higher calling than marriage. It certainly makes people who are called to marriage feel a bit strange sometimes. Thologically I understand it but really in my heart of heart I do believe that a calling is a very very personal thing. If God calls ME to married life then how can someone tell me that a higher calling is celibacy? I mean, the highest calling and duty of every christian man and woman is to strive to do Gods will for her/him. That must be the ultimate goal. Also the highest calling is to become HOLY, to partake in Gods life. Religious people don’t do that more than married people, per se. But God created us as individuals with individual roles and missions. Let us all strive for HIS will and don’t mess it up with our fancy ideas about what is more high or low. God does not have favorites. In the end it is the love of God that matters.
Best regards,
Amber (called to a beautiful marriage by Almighty God)
Sincerely, Amber
M
MissMichal
Guest
D
DL82
Guest
You can be a holy and chaste priest and still have fun, play baseball, spend time with family and friends, and do all the other things you mention here. The only difference is whether you do them as a distraction from life, or offer them up to God.
Read the life of St John Bosco, he was a man of a thousand talents, all offered to God.
M
Michael_Saint
Guest
- Good point, re: books just praising celibacy.
- Now, regarding your statement that “we always have to hear this thing that religious life is a higher calling than marriage”. First of all, we don’t “always hear it” because no one ever talks about it any more. We usually hear that there is an “equality”, and this is error. Secondly, it always baffles me as to why so many married people get so sensitive about the dogma of the superiority of religious life to marriage. It is the truth, so why be insecure about it? I think the married people who protest this often know deep down that they may have been called to religious life, or that they did not properly discern and suspect that there is that possibility that God may have been calling them to at least consider it. No, that is not always the case, but many times that is what motivates it.
N
Norseman82
Guest
Plese see CCC 1603. Bookmark it. Memorize it. It states that the vocation to marriage was instilled in our very nature as it comes from the hand of God.
G
GraceDK
Guest
marriage is as good as celibacy. Whatever you do, do it for the glory of God. If someone does not have a vocation to the priesthood or religious life, yet goes into it grumpily and out of the wrong reasons, then its not the intention of God.
God has no favourites. This means that God does not create some to be saints and others not. Also, a king of a country is worth nothing more to God than a slave is. He wants us to be different but all holy and doing good wherever we are and in what circumstances. Imagine Abraham in whose seed nations became blessed, and then imagine some preacher telling him: no, dont marry Saraj, dont have children, because if you do then you will be less worth in the kingdom of God.
That would be nonsense. Also… Peter was not better or more holy than John… Peter was a married leader of the church. John was the youngest disciple and unmarried. Both each had their vocation and life to the glory of God.
There are different vocations, but they are equal, because what God wants is what is good. So too with the genders. Men and women… a man is a man and a woman is a woman. different but totally equal. If they strive to be the other then they are in danger of living unholy lives…
G
GraceDK
Guest
Dear sister in Jesus.
I agree wholeheartedly with your post. Further more I think its self-evident if we consider Judeo-Christian Scripture…
Peace to you
D
dakotagirl
Guest
MOST of the well-known and celebrated saints either were celibate or are NOT celebrated FOR their marriages (like St. Peter) The ones who are are few and far between. I see where the OP is coming from here.
I recommend some of the books by Dietrich von Hildebrand (like Man and Woman) which make clear and glorify the beauty and sacredness of marriage. He really helped me to see how holy purity is both outside and INSIDE of marriage and to see with reverence that sexuality is a gift of God.
D
dakotagirl
Guest
That said, celibacy IS a higher calling. Maybe not “better” but spiritually higher - a reflection of the celibacy that exists in Heaven. There really is no two ways about it and I think it takes humility to see that one might not be called to celibacy. However, the best way to become holy is to choose the vocation that God chooses for you.
M
Michael_Saint
Guest
This is heresy, contrary to Council of Trent.
M
Michael_Saint
Guest
Bingo - right on the mark. It does take humility to accept the fact that God might be calling you to marriage and not celibacy, because it is not as high a call. That is why married people get so insecure about this dogma. But we must accept that as God’s will, and the more we align ourselves with God’s will, the holier we get.
G
GraceDK
Guest
Hm… maybe I could start to make a small collection of heresies.
Its always interesting when someone speaks their mind and conscience and backs it with logic… and then somebody comes and says: “heresy!”
I guess we all are… in some small ways heretics… dont you think?
M
Michael_Saint
Guest
No, I did not say you were a heretic. I said that is heresy. That celibacy is superior to marriage is an infallible dogma of the Church. I have already cited references in this thread.
N
Norseman82
Guest
First, that was before the fall.
Second, even when Jesus referred to those who made themselves “eunuchs” for the kingdom of God (depending on your translation), He noted that not all could accept that teaching and that everyone should accept it as they can.
Third, Protestants can be right at times, too.
First, that is a very dangerous accusation to make - partially because it could be false, partially because it could cause unhealthy second-guessing. After all, once a person is married, what are they supposed to do? “Honey, I want a divorce - I just woke up and realized that I should have been a priest/nun/whatever”.
Second, in my experience, I have noticed a tendency to criticize people who want to get married, so those comments could serve as triggers of memories of people criticizing them for seeking marriage in the first place.
- Status