Vocation To Secular Religious Orders

[FCEGM]

. . .

But in late 1999, just before I was to make my final promises, I underwent a grueling period of written and verbal evaluations with the spiritual director (a diocesan priest) and the formation director (a married/widowed laywoman). I wasn’t then, and still am not, very articulate about my spiritual life, and so it was difficult (and at times tear-filled) to answer their questions. They determined that I did not have a vocation to the Carmelites, even after having been in the group for six years. The last meeting I attended was in February 2000-the very day I would have made my final promises. And a month or two later, I received a letter from the president of the group releasing me from my temporary promises of 1995.

Barb, I’m sorry you had this experience with the OCDS; I can’t evaluate the wisdom of their decision, but I do think some Spiritual Assistants and Directors of Formation forget to look at the heart of a candidate when trying to discern the vocation and instead focus on the more academic questions. I remember a lovely Irish priest (R.I.P.) who was the Provincial Delegate in the Western Province of the U.S. who told me to look at the desire and fidelity.

 

[barb_finnegan]

Barb, I’m sorry you had this experience with the OCDS; I can’t evaluate the wisdom of their decision, but I do think some Spiritual Assistants and Directors of Formation forget to look at the heart of a candidate when trying to discern the vocation and instead focus on the more academic questions. I remember a lovely Irish priest (R.I.P.) who was the Provincial Delegate in the Western Province of the U.S. who told me to look at the desire and fidelity.

Frances, thanks for your post. And I can see your point. That entire ordeal was very difficult for me.

Very wise quote from the Irish priest…

 

[lucyenglish77]

Adoro Te Devote and I were sharing on another thread about vocations; we have to confess that we accidently derailed that thread. So we decided to start another thread out of respect for the OP and to allow that thread to continue on its due course. I hope that we didn’t do too much damage.

The topic of this thread is Secular Orders. It’s really an information thread and an opportunity for people to share what this vocation means to them and to allow others to ask questions, especially those who are discerning a vocation to a particular religious family.

Before going further, it’s important to understand what Secular Orders are not. They are not societies of pious people who share a devotion to a particular saint: St. Francis, Benedict, Teresa of Avila or Dominic. They are not a stepping stone to becoming a “real” Franciscan, Dominican, Carmelite or Benedictine. In fact, Canon Law forbids that they be used in such a way. They are not half-baked religious. Their members do not straddle the fence between religious life and the secular life.

Secular Orders are first and foremost, real religious orders as stated very clearly by Pope Leo XIII and Pius XI when they wrote about the Secular Franciscan Order.

Secular Orders came into existence in different ways. Long before the Middle Ages there were secular movements of preachers, hermits, penitents and mendicants. Most of them disappeared for many reasons, but not all.

When Francis of Assisi began his journey he began as a secular man. His life was devoted to following the Gospel doing penance. Later, when single lay men and some diocesan priests joined him, his mission became a religious family. Eventually, he had to write a rule for his brothers. He wrote the Rule of the Friars Minor, which most of us know as the Franciscans, Capuchins or Conventual. But there were married men and women and some diocesan priests who wanted to live the Gospel life and remain in the secular world. Francis wrote a rule for them too. He called them the Brothers and Sisters of Penance. Today most people call us the Secular Franciscans, though the name has never changed.

When Dominic founded his first order, it was a community of nuns. Later he founded a community of Friar Preachers. Most of them were priests, but there were some lay men. Traditionally, they were called the Order of Preachers. From the very beginning, there were diocesan priests, married men and women and others who wanted to share in the mission of Dominic and remain in the secular world. They too wanted to be preachers. Late in the 13th century statutes were drawn up for these men and women to live by. They lived under the direction of the Friars. They were known as the Lay Order of Preachers or Lay Dominicans. The most famous of them was Catherine of Siena, Doctor of the Church.

The same thing happened with the Carmelite family. Many lay people and secular priests wanted to live the live the hermetical life of the Carmelites, but remain in the secular world. They were organised into two groups, the Secular Carmelites and the Order of Secular Carmelite Discalced. The first group is closely associated with the Carmelite friars of the ancient observance, the second group with the Carmelite reform started by St. Teresa of Avila.

Each of these Secular Orders has a canonical standing within the Church. Each of them has a way of life, vows or some kind of profession that is perpetual. The Franciscans have a rule written by St. Francis and cannot be changed except by a Pope. The Lay Dominicans follow the Augustinian Rule, but with the Dominican’s emphasis on preaching, while the Franciscan emphasis is on blind obedience to the Church, prayer and penance. The Carmelite emphasis is on the hermetical life, contemplation and detachment.

All three require a commitment for life. All three are consecrated ways of life. All three require a special vocation. They are not societies that one joins today and leaves tomorrow because one finds something more interesting to do. The commitment is different in each of them. The details such as the life of prayer and fraternity are different; as well as how they live the Gospel is different. All three have deacons, priests, bishops, married and single people; some are celibate and not others.

There is more to share here, but space does not allow it. Let’s keep talking and the rest will come out.

Fraternally,

JR

Thanks JR!

This topic need to be address since I am very surprised that no one has heard of the Dominican Laity. Right now, I am in the first phase of formation and I am loving it! The mission for the Dominican Laity is to assist the friars and other Dominicans with ministries and other obligations.

For more on becoming a lay Dominican, here are some sites:

laity.op.org/eng/

domcentral.org/oplaity/laycat.htm

domlife.org/BeingDominican/WhoWeAre/Laity.htm

Pray for my during my formation period. The formation period is about 2 years and then 3-6 years of temporary profession. After that one member must decide if he or she wants to be a Dominican for life.

That’s it!

Eileen Bellamy
Lay Dominican Inquirer

 

[pammcc]

Hi, folks! I’m just checking in after my formation meeting tonite. The topic was holiness, which I see was discussed earlier. I’m in the very beginning of formation for the SFO, in case you missed my earlier post.

In case any of you are wondering what it’s like for me, I have to say I come away from our gatherings feeling joyful. What’s really nice in our group is that when we meet for formation, it’s not just the newbies and the formation director. Most of the professed members attend formation with the inquirers. It really feels like a family, and I appreciate all the encouragement we get from the professed members. I find their insights helpful.

There are times when living the gospel seems daunting to me. It’s nice to know that my professed brothers and sisters have felt that way, too.

I’m at a time in my life when I’ve had to take early retirement due to disability, so I’m at a crossroads. In a way, it’s terrifying and exciting all at the same time! I’m praying for discernment about how the Lord will use me. I feel drawn to working with adults who have maybe strayed from the church but are trying to find a way back, because that was me about 30 years ago.
I’ve contacted the deacon at my parish and shared my story with him, and asked him if he could use me. There’s been some talk about forming a group for long, lost Catholics who left for any number of reasons, but feel like they might want to give it another chance.

When I read about Barb’s experience with a third order, I could only imagine how devastated I would feel if the same thing happened to me. Yet, somehow, in a strange way, I really do trust the process. I only want to be where the Lord wants me to be, even if it means (God forbid!) that in the end the discernment was that the SFO wouldn’t be a good fit for me. It’s a chance I’m willing to take because I can only grow from the experience. I don’t know what the future holds, but I do know who holds the future.
peace!

 

[Epistemes]

Hello,

I never know what to say in these Franciscan threads, much less ones dealing with a vocation to the secular religious order. I can’t help but feel that whatever I say is somehow wrong…

Regardless, as somebody who has been attending meetings with the local chapter of the Secular Franciscans over the course of the past few months, I thought I would weigh in with my thoughts.

First, let me just say that I removed a dead squirrel from the road the other day – which I considered to be highly odd. I drove past it, turned around, parked my car in a safe place on the side of the road, found a piece of cardboard, and scooted its dead body from the middle of the road. I called him Brother Squirrel.

At the recent chapter meeting, an older woman, who just took two new candidates under her wing for formation, talked about how living the Franciscan life has brought her closer to all of nature so that she feels inclined to animals and plants and trees. In a way, the natural spirituality of Francis is rather Tolkien-esque, sharing in common an abundant respect for all God’s creatures. And in removing Brother Squirrel from the road, I recalled how this lady, in her own spiritual life, had become closer to Francis by sharing a love for God’s creation.

I don’t know why I continue to go to these Secular meetings. I don’t even really pray about my vocation to this type of religious life, or not – except when the day for the meeting draws near and I begin to feel anxious, wondering if I’m truly called to live the rest of my life as a Secular. But I always say, “Your will be done,” and I drive to the meeting. Regardless, I try to live as much like Francis as I can, day by day. Every so often I begin to notice how attached I am to certain comforts, certain ideas, certain modes of being, certain these and certain thats. I see the needy, and my heart goes out to them - but my arrogance has not allowed me to do more than give when asked. I pray that I’ll someday be able to give without being asked. There’s a Francis within me that wants to flourish.

I’m especially vexed due to the possibility which exists for me to join the First Order – the Conventual Friars – but that wouldn’t be until at least six years from now. A lot can happen in six years. Within the next couple of months alone, it seems that the local chapter has planned for me to take part in orientation. And I’ll likely attend. Why not? But, if I were asked tomorrow if I should like to join the Third Order, I would say ‘no’ because it is an honest answer. My pride longs to join this “group,” but as JR said in the OP, this isn’t some group like the Knights of Columbus or Legion of Mary or some Bible study: it’s actual religious life. I’ve gradually come to that realization since attending the meetings.

At the recent meeting, since there was no actual formation scheduled, and since so many brothers and sisters were under the weather, we went around the room answering the question: “What are you thankful for this Thanksgiving? And who/what introduced you to the life and spirituality of St. Francis?” I was glad that I didn’t have to answer these questions! I’m not sure how I would have answered the second part. And I don’t know that I will ever join the Third Order until I am able to answer that question.

 

[JReducation]

Epistemes reflection was an excellent example of the discernment that is involved in deciding if one has a vocation to a secular order or other lay community. There are some very valid points that he makes.

Epistemes reminds us that it is a call to live the religious life in the secular world. Too often, even members of Secular Orders or Lay Orders use such catch phrases as “called to live according to the X spirit”, be it Dominican, Carmelite, Franciscan or other. This phrase “according to the spirit” is to be taken very literally. The Church does not intend for secular communities to be simply societies of pious people who love St. Francis, Dominic or Teresa of Avila. To live according the Franciscan, Dominican, Carmelite or some other spirit, means to live the Gospel according to the mind and means of that religious family.

Another point that he makes that has a great deal of validity is his attraction to the Friars Minor Conventual. I cannot speak about other religious families, because each is different and the relationship between the Secular Order or Lay Order and the Regular Order is different. But among the Franciscans, each Order has a completely different charism, mission, and rule of life. There are some overlaps, because we were founded by the Francis of Assisi and he wrote each rule himself. We also consider each other brothers and sisters, because we are part of the same family. However, we are also very different from one another. The Rule and Life of the Friars Minor, the Poor Clares, the Third Order Regular and the Secular Franciscans are different. Francis’ expectations of each were different. Each has a different role in the Franciscan family. If one feels an attraction to the Friars Minor, it would be a grave mistake to join the Secular Franciscans. We are not the same and do not share the same emphasis. Francis gave each of us a different spirit. The emphasis that he gave each of the Orders emanates from his experience of the Divine and the Church.

There are some overlaps between the four orders. First and foremost, Francis demands absolute obedience to the Church and to him, from those living during his lifetime and those who would come in the future. This is a point on which he would not negotiate, to the point that he writes it into his rule under pain of eternal damnation. Detachment from the material world is another point of overlap, only having what is necessary to fulfil the will of God in one’s given state, Lady Poverty. The life of prayer must always take priority over all things, including works of charity. Brotherhood is more than belonging to the same spiritual family, but it is essential to salvation. Therefore, no Franciscan may ever live independent of a fraternity and all the members of the four orders are equal, be they priests, deacons, nuns, seculars, or sisters. Everyone is Brother once you are in the midst of the fraternity. All other titles of respect cease to exist when you are within the confines of the fraternity, either the secular or the regular fraternity. These titles were not important to Francis. He accepted them as an act of charity toward the laity, so as not to confuse. Everyone is Brother, with the same rights and obligations.

The same holds true within the Secular Order. We have priests, deacons, bishops, single celibate men and women, and married men and women. But they are all Brother or Sister. Their outside title is irrelevant in the fraternity. Each one is a son or daughter of the Father, a brother or sister of Jesus Christ, a spouse of the Holy Spirit, and a descendant of Francis of Assisi. There is penance. Francis demanded penance from his sons and daughters. Finally, the centre of Franciscan life is the Eucharist and the cross.

Having spoken of the overlaps, there are also significant differences. The greatest difference is in the manner that community life is lived. The second is the apostolate. The Secular Franciscans are called to be actively involved in the apostolate. The Poor Clares may never directly engage in any external apostolate. The Friars may only engage in external apostolates that do not take time away from the brotherhood. The time dedicated to the Brothers may never be sacrificed for external ministry. That is the role of the Secular Order, to serve in the world, not the role of the Friar Minor. The Friar Minor ministers where and when he can live his Franciscan calling without interference or distraction from his life with his brothers. The friar is literally married to the fraternity. This is the friar’s gift to the Church.

One who is seriously considering the Friars Minor (Observant, Capuchin or Conventual) needs to remember that the Secular Order is not a stepping stone to the Order of Friars Minor. Their lives are very different and their mission in the Church is very different. Let’s not forget that the years of formation in the Secular Franciscans can extend up to six years before one makes final profession, just as long as the formation of the friars or the Poor Clare nuns.

Another compliment that I would like to pay Epistemes’ post is to his closing statement. No one should ever join an order until one can say for sure that Christ has called him or her to this way of life. This is a serious and permanent step in a person’s life and it affects the individual and the individual’s family, if he or she is married or has children. We can fool our brothers and sisters, we can sometimes fool ourselves, but we cannot fool God.

If one is considering joining a religious family, whether it is an autonomous Order, as is the Secular Franciscan Order or one that depends on the Regular Order, as do the Lay Dominicans and Secular Carmelites, the bottom line is the same. Christ must call one to this way of life and we must answer without reservations in our generosity and availability.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Epistemes]

Thank you for that very helpful post, JR – though I do not feel that my post deserved any accolades, uninformative as it was. What you say adds a lot of depth and dimension to my own perspective concerning these men and women with whom I’ve been associating over the course of the past few months. This isn’t just a group of men and women who are active Catholics with a love of Franciscan spirituality who meet once a month in order to share stories, snacks, and good advice, but an actual fraternity of St. Francis.

 

[JReducation]

This isn’t just a group of men and women who are active Catholics with a love of Franciscan spirituality who meet once a month in order to share stories, snacks, and good advice, **but an actual fraternity **of St. Francis.

Bold is mine

The spirit of fraternity is interpreted differently by different religious families. In some families it means that all members are brothers and sisters, which is true. Among Franciscans it takes a slightly different focus. The members of the Franciscan family are brothers and sisters to each other by virtue of being sons and daughters of the Father and of their patriarch, St. Francis.

However, there is another twist that is very unique to Franciscans, Regular and Secular. Part of the patrimony that Francis of Assisi left his four orders was brotherhood. In his writings he stresses that each member of the brotherhood must be a mother to the other. Each one must sacrifice everything for the good of the brother or sister. One’s love is prioritized in the following order: God, Church, community and others.

Where there are Franciscans, Secular and Regular, there must always be a genuine brotherhood where the love for each other surpasses the love for our own biological brothers and sisters, parents and friends. For Francis looked at the love between Christ and his disciples and at Christ’s words, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the Word of God and keep it.” Francis loved these words and applied them in his life. Those who follow him, seek to love each other as Christ loved his apostles, within the cloister or outside in the secular world, according the the example of their father Francis.

A Secular Franciscan loves his brothers and sisters as a mother loves her child. He or she commits his/her life to living the Gospel side by side with these brothers and sisters, guided by them, inspired by them, and always being at their service.

Fraternally,

JR

Fraternally,

JR

 

[JollyGal88]

JReducation, I am discerning the Lay Dominicans, and I know this is the way of life God wants me to discern. Is this also a religious vocation?

 

[JReducation]

JReducation, I am discerning the Lay Dominicans, and I know this is the way of life God wants me to discern. Is this also a religious vocation?

Very much so. The Lay Dominican Order is a Secular Order with their own Constitutions, leadership, ministry and place in the Church. Like the Secular Franciscans and the Secular Carmelites they are a true secular “religious” order.

They follow the spirit and way paved by their holy father Dominic, to preach the Gospel to all men, not only through word, but most of all through great humility and very strong fraternal bonds.

Many are celibate, but most are married and have families. They profess the three evangelical counsels and live them according to their state in life. The Lay Dominicans have given the Church some beloved saints, especially Catherine of Siena, who is a Doctor of the Church and the only lay woman to hold that title, also St. Rose of Lima and St. Martin de Porres. Bl. Pierre Giorgio Frasatti was a Lay Dominican and spent his youth serving the poor and preaching the gospel to his peers.

Like all religious communities, their formation program is long and intense. It allows the individual and the community time to discern if this is what Christ is calling you to do.

The most visible difference between the Lay Dominicans and the Secular Franciscans is that the Lay Dominicans are attached to the Dominican Friars, whereas the Secular Franciscans were founded to be completely detached from the Franciscan Friars. The entire Dominican family follows the Rule of St. Augustine, which Dominic adapted to their way of life. At least in spirit they are part of the Augustinian family, but not canonically. Unlike Franciscan communities who are all bound to the Rule of St. Francis and are canonically one family. The Dominicans are not part of the Augustinian Order.

They are a very holy group of people and there is a strong bond of affection between them and the Franciscans that dates back to the affection and admiration that existed between our two holy fathers, Francis and Dominic. We tend to call them both Father when we pray. In the litany of Sts. we often place them together, “Holy Fathers Francis and Dominic, pray for us.”

I hope this information is useful.

Fraternally in Sts. Francis and Dominic:

JR

 

[emily123]

Hi Barb,
Why not try the Third Order (TO Carms) --they are part of the ancient observance and when I joined, I never had to answer any questions and no one ever made me nervous! I am no longer a Carmelite, but I was for a few years. I am now in formation to be a Lay Missionary of Charity. The Ancient Observance Carmelites might be a better choice for you than the Discalced, which are much stricter and difficult to join. www.carmelnet.org is the address and there are many TO Carm groups in the US, maybe near you. There are also other third orders, such as Little Souls, which are based on the teachings of St Therese www.littlesouls.org. There are other options open to you if you love the Carmelites! Emily

 

[jimcav]

Great thread JR!

A question - I am a member of the Confraternity of the Passion, which is part of the Passionist Congregation. Although I am a lay person, I am inquiring this week about taking the vows of poverty, chastity and obediance, along with the Passionist vow of preaching Christ Crucified. I will also have the opportunity to take a religious name. While the confraternity goes back almost to the founding of the order, the allowance of vows are something very recent. St. Paul of the Cross, the founder of the Passionists never created a third order for lay people, just the confraternity and he was never able to create a full order on the level of the Carmelites, Franciscans or Dominicans because by the time he came along, the Church stopped granting them.

So, what would this confraternity be considered, a secular order or still a confraternity? And what would I be considered?

Sorry if you already answered something like this, it’s just alot of information here!

 

[JReducation]

Great thread JR!

A question - I am a member of the Confraternity of the Passion, which is part of the Passionist Congregation. Although I am a lay person, I am inquiring this week about taking the vows of poverty, chastity and obediance, along with the Passionist vow of preaching Christ Crucified. I will also have the opportunity to take a religious name. While the confraternity goes back almost to the founding of the order, the allowance of vows are something very recent. St. Paul of the Cross, the founder of the Passionists never created a third order for lay people, just the confraternity and he was never able to create a full order on the level of the Carmelites, Franciscans or Dominicans because by the time he came along, the Church stopped granting them.

So, what would this confraternity be considered, a secular order or still a confraternity? And what would I be considered?

Sorry if you already answered something like this, it’s just alot of information here!

That’s a very good question. I don’t know the answer. It would be in your constitutions. A secular order has certain characteristics that make it so.

1. 
   *]It is erected as an order by the Church.
   
   *]It answers to the Holy See like any other order.
   
   *]It has a rule of life.
   
   *]It makes a public profession that is canonically binding.
   
   I know that the Passionists are not an order. They are a congregation, which is different from an order. The Church has different expectations of congregations. Most congregations were founded for a particular ministry, such as preaching the passion of Christ is for the Passionists. Orders were found to live a certain way of life. What they do by way of ministry is not that important to the Church. Orders often do many different ministries or none at all.
   
   Since the Confraternity comes from the Passionist traditioin, I would guess that it’s not a Secular Order. However, a Confraternity is canonically a public association of the faithful. It has a canonical place in the life of the Church and it is a juridical person.
   
   As to your vows, you would be a consecrated person in private vows. Public vows are those recognized by the Church as part of the life of a community. Not all communities require vows. Those members of communities who make vows are making valid vows, but they are private. This means that they can be dispensed by the local bishop or his delegate.
   
   I don’t know if this helps.
   
   Fraternally,
   
   Br. JR, OSF

 

[jimcav]

That’s a very good question. I don’t know the answer. It would be in your constitutions. A secular order has certain characteristics that make it so.

1. 
   *]It is erected as an order by the Church.
   
   *]It answers to the Holy See like any other order.
   
   *]It has a rule of life.
   
   *]It makes a public profession that is canonically binding.

1. 
   I will be sure to find out this week about this. The congregation and the confraternity does have a rule of life, and it does answer to the Holy See, but I’m not sure about the other points.
   

   I know that the Passionists are not an order. They are a congregation, which is different from an order. The Church has different expectations of congregations. Most congregations were founded for a particular ministry, such as preaching the passion of Christ is for the Passionists. Orders were found to live a certain way of life. What they do by way of ministry is not that important to the Church. Orders often do many different ministries or none at all.
   
   Since the Confraternity comes from the Passionist traditioin, I would guess that it’s not a Secular Order. However, a Confraternity is canonically a public association of the faithful. It has a canonical place in the life of the Church and it is a juridical person.

   That is a great explanation concerning the differences between an order and a congregation. I never knew the difference.
   

   As to your vows, you would be a consecrated person in private vows. Public vows are those recognized by the Church as part of the life of a community. Not all communities require vows. Those members of communities who make vows are making valid vows, but they are private. This means that they can be dispensed by the local bishop or his delegate.
   
   I don’t know if this helps.
   
   Fraternally,
   
   Br. JR, OSF

   I thought I would be considerered a consecrated person, but I wasn’t 100% sure. I’m happy to know that I could soon be one!
   
   Your answers are always quite helpful!

 

[carnes88]

Do members of secular orders/third orders turn in their profession documents to the parish that keeps their sacramental documents since they are now members of religious orders like the members of the 1st & 2nd do? After all we are members of religious orders. I received my sacramental records and it had a place for profession to religious orders.

Pax Et Bonum

 

[Shoshana]

Thanks, JR, for bringing the topic of Secular Orders to the front burner. For those interested in the Secular Discalced Carmelite Order, here are some links:

ocdswashprov.org/

discalcedcarmel.com/

ourgardenofcarmel.org/

helpfellowship.org/OCDS%20Lessons/Lesson%2015.htm

And, btw, John Paul II was a Secular Discalced Carmelite. :yup:

And Bishop Sheen!

 

[LovePatience]

How can we discern a vocation to a secular religious order rather than to marriage or to a religious life? I ask this question not rhetorically. I have been invited to become a religious by many. I thought I would act on the encouragement of others and inquire myself whether or not it would be my vocation even though I had no natural attraction; when I was reluctant to actually visit, I was told kindly that God was speaking to me, and I shouldn’t ignore this. However, the simple act of being told that “God was speaking to me” led me to suspect that this order was anti-rational.

I have had enough negative experiences with “coincidences” to know that it requires discernment to know if a coincidence is to be ignored or if it actually means something. So I am distrustful of a person who would so quickly make that determination. My desire is for marriage, and I do have romantic experience to know that I would be happier in that state. On the other hand, I truly want to fulfill the perfect will of God in my life. Sometimes, I still want to fulfill this will even if it makes me permanently unhappy; I know that doing good things is not always fun. I also know that both St. Therese of Liseux and St. Teresa of Avila had no natural attraction to the religious life. St Teresa “forced herself.” It seems if I did so, that would be worthy of more glory as it would be a greater sacrifice.

However, the prospect of “forcing myself” causes me to disbelieve in God. Can God really be so sadistic to enjoy having others force themsleves? to pray for suffering? Jesus tried to avoid being crucified although he willing did without coitus. The very promotion of the ideal of suffering seems counterproductive; *why are we trying to eliminate the sufferings of others while choosing suffering for yourself? * Doesn’t this mean we lack self-love? God no longer seems logical. This questioning of the faith seems to be an unstable foundation for a religious.

I am also attracted to a secular religious order, but again I don’t understand the logic of consecrated virginity. Wouldn’t a person with social support provided by marriage be more loving than one who did not have this? And wouldn’t that cause greater happiness to allow one to serve others with more joy and even be a more effective witness for the faith?

There is an obvious lack of joy in many nuns (not ALL of them obviously), which is why Tina Fey pokes fun of them on SNL.

EDITED BY MODERATOR

Some of these discerned wrongly.

So how can you tell if your vocation is to a secular religious order or to a religious life? I haven’t gotten any peace since I was told that God was speaking to me and have felt guilty that I have not acted on this. On the other hand, I don’t want to act on irrationality and be unhappy and waste my one and only life. (Less important question) If your vocation is to a secular religious order, how can you tell if it is to marriage or consecrated virginity?

 

[Marauder]

So how can you tell if your vocation is to a secular religious order or to a religious life? I haven’t gotten any peace since I was told that God was speaking to me and have felt guilty that I have not acted on this. On the other hand, I don’t want to act on irrationality and be unhappy and waste my one and only life. (Less important question) If your vocation is to a secular religious order, how can you tell if it is to marriage or consecrated virginity?

I think your first question should be are you called to religious life or secular life. Becoming married does not preclude you from joining a secular order. Most secular Orders allow married people. Most secular Orders also allow you to become married after becoming a member. Getting married does preclude you from joining a religious Order.

The key here is to get a religious director. If you feel called to a specific charism I suggest getting a spiritual director from that charism. As an example if you feel called to the Franciscan charism, get a spiritual director from any of the Franciscan Orders.

If you feel called to religious life investigate that calling, talk to a spiritual director. Talk to formation directors of whichever Order you feel called to. If the calling isn’t there then you can pursue whether marriage, single life and/or a secular Order are for you.

 

[Marauder]

Do members of secular orders/third orders turn in their profession documents to the parish that keeps their sacramental documents since they are now members of religious orders like the members of the 1st & 2nd do? After all we are members of religious orders. I received my sacramental records and it had a place for profession to religious orders.

A member of a secular order does not become a vowed religious. When I entered SFO I had to produce my sacramental documents to verify I was a Catholic in good standing, but I never supplied anything back to my home parish after I became a member. Whether this was done via other methods I don’t know but I didn’t have to do anything. In SFO we are in an Order but we are not a “religious” Order.

 

[SisterSnowflake]

My response may be a bit of a repeat, but neither members of secular orders nor secular institutes (two different things) are religious.

God bless.