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Pius_X
Guest
So? Daily Mass is not required, and some can not make it.
You have yet to answer my earlier point: If a boy refuses to serve simply because it is a “girl’s thing” then how is he mature enough to serve Mass at all?
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You have yet to answer my earlier point: If a boy refuses to serve simply because it is a “girl’s thing” then how is he mature enough to serve Mass at all?
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Jared123
Guest
I realize daily mass isn’t required, the point I am making is that the people who go above and beyond the minimum obligation tend to receive on the tongue, at least that has been my observation.
The young boy that refuses to serve because it may seem to be a girl thing in some parishes needs guidance from a parent on such matters. Pius X you seem to of had a strong Catholic upbringing by good Catholic parents.
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Lovemyfaith
Guest
I go to daily Mass and I receive in my hand because priests have told me they prefer that.
I read through this thread and I feel we haven’t gotten anywhere. There are probably a lot of reasons vocations to the priesthood have gone down, for example, families were much larger in the past. I know Lincoln diocese has a large number of seminarians and no female servers, but I also know there are many other differences between Lincoln and larger dioceses, like the one I am in besides no female servers.
It is also interesting to consider places in the world, like Africa and India who have MANY seminarians and have a church life that is probably much different than a typical American parish, and I base that statment on visiting priest from those areas who have described what parish life is like there. I
I read through this thread and I feel we haven’t gotten anywhere. There are probably a lot of reasons vocations to the priesthood have gone down, for example, families were much larger in the past. I know Lincoln diocese has a large number of seminarians and no female servers, but I also know there are many other differences between Lincoln and larger dioceses, like the one I am in besides no female servers.
It is also interesting to consider places in the world, like Africa and India who have MANY seminarians and have a church life that is probably much different than a typical American parish, and I base that statment on visiting priest from those areas who have described what parish life is like there. I
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Pius_X
Guest
Why should girls be prevented from serving then if it is the boy that needs guidance?
I’m sure you would clash with my parents on a couple issues.
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chicago
Guest
I’m sorry, but I just have to point out that MANY of the cases of abuse occurred either years ago (before these men were even admitted to seminary) and by priests who came up through the old ranks.
Now if what you are saying is that the scandals caused by the challenges to faith and practice were because of these priests, again they really were only following the lead of their instructors who came up in an earlier era.
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Jared123
Guest
This is a good post. There are many factors, Catholics limiting the size of their families has definantly hurt vocations. How many future vocations have been aborted? How many priests were not allowed to come into this world because the parents used their free will and contracepted?
The start of one of the articles I posted touched on vocations from overseas. In many places in the world such as Africa and India vocations are booming. Many dioceses now have to bring these priests in to help cover their parishes. America is a land of materalism and wealth. This tends to push people away form God and the Church. If you live in a land of poverty one tends to be closer to God.
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Jared123
Guest
Pius X we are going around in circles here.Why should girls be prevented from serving then if it is the boy that needs guidance?
I’m sure you would clash with my parents on a couple issues.
If your parents are faithful to the Magesterium of the Catholic Church we would get along great…
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Petergee
Guest
Exactly. I am amazed that the moderators have allowed this thread to go on for 11 days with such an offensive expression in its title and prominent in the poll.
That must be a rule by your bishop. In my parish most of the Masses are served by family groups of 3 or 4 brothers and sisters.
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Jared123
Guest
Chicago,
This is a vocations thread, but I will make a comment on your post since I brought this up. I will agree with you, most of the abuse cases happened years ago with very few of them happening recently. In many cases the priest has already died after their names were brought up.
Vatican II started in 1962 and ended in 1965 I believe. After this took place radical changes occurred in the Church. Vocations also dropped. Many rectors tried to fill this void by lowering the standards to enter the seminary. If a priest struggled with homosexual tendancies this wasn’t considered a disqualiying factor as it is today. I don’t have the numbers in front of me but have read on the topic. The overwhelming number of young people that were victimized were boys. Obviously showing a homosexual link. The media would never present the finding in this matter not to cast the homosexual community in a negative light. However the Church knows what took place. Now every seminarian goes through, (or should) a rather length battery of psychological test and exams. If homosexual tendancies or thoughts is an issue that is a disqualify factor. Certian Bishops from around the country (the Bishop of Lincoln was one of them), visited each seminary in the United States after the scandels and personally interviewed seminarians, rectors, and faculty. Other issues were discussed but homosexuality topped the list.
I had a young man work for me this summer who entered the seminary this year. He went through several test this summer and a large part dealt with sexual orientation issues. The Church is trying not to make the same mistakes that were made in the past.
Were some of these priests involved in the scandel ordained before Vactican II, I’m sure there were, but I bet the majority were ordained right after Vatican II.
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Jared123
Guest
The Bishop is in charge of a diocese and should follow the Magesterium of the Church (doesn’t always happen). If the Bishop doesn’t want to allow altar girls he doesn’t have to.
I think it is great that the moderators have let this thread go. It has been a respectful debate for the most part.
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Jared123
Guest
What this thread comes down to is this. If you are a Catholic that tends to be more on the orthodox side you will vote that altar girls have hurt vocations. If you are a Catholic that tends to be more on the unorthodox side you will vote that altar girls don’t hurt vocations. If you are really unorthodox you will vote that altar girls help vocations.
Current numbers show us that 66% of people who have responded to this thread think that altar girls hurt vocations. That tells me that most of the people on this site are orthodox Catholics.
Look around the country at dioceses, orders of Nuns, Religious orders, certain parishes and see which ones are strong. You will find one common denominator…Orthodoxy.
Dioceses that have a good strong Orthodox Bishop, Religious Orders of Nuns that still wear a habit tend to be better off. Religious sister that traded the habit in for a lapel pin are dieing off, Religious orders of men such as Fr. Groschels order are very orthodox and going strong. Legionares of Christ are very orthodox and I believe the fastest growing order in the world.
Orthodoxy is the key.
Current numbers show us that 66% of people who have responded to this thread think that altar girls hurt vocations. That tells me that most of the people on this site are orthodox Catholics.
Look around the country at dioceses, orders of Nuns, Religious orders, certain parishes and see which ones are strong. You will find one common denominator…Orthodoxy.
Dioceses that have a good strong Orthodox Bishop, Religious Orders of Nuns that still wear a habit tend to be better off. Religious sister that traded the habit in for a lapel pin are dieing off, Religious orders of men such as Fr. Groschels order are very orthodox and going strong. Legionares of Christ are very orthodox and I believe the fastest growing order in the world.
Orthodoxy is the key.
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Petergee
Guest
If you got the impression that I was somehow disagreeing with any of this, you’re wrong.
I have no objection to the thread (hence my taking part in it) only to the offensive expression in its title “girl-altar boys”, and the slanted “options” in the poll.
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Petergee
Guest
Gee thanks for putting us all into your arbitrary boxes without knowing anything about us. I am 100% orthodox and I do NOT think that altar girls have hurt vocations, and I think it’s quite possible they have helped vocations. I refused to vote for any of the stupidly slanted options in this rigged poll.
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Bob67
Guest
**Here are some interesting articles:
Springtime Decay
seattlecatholic.com/article_20040119.html
Shocking Facts Illustrating the Decline of the Church since Vatican II
latin-mass-society.org/figures.htm**
**Jared123 have you ever read this book?
AA-1025 The Memoirs of Anti-Apostle
tanbooks.com/index.php/pa…words/aa+1025/
It’s about a Communist injured in an auto accident in France;
he died in the hospital a few hours later.
The nurse who attended him kept his journals,
read them and published them as AA-1025.
He had become a Catholic priest to subvert the Church from within.
Describes his methods & plans. Says there were many more like him!
This would surely explain some of what’s been going on inside of
Holy Mother Church in the last 40 years!
Wouldn’t it? Maybe some of the scandals & abuses too!**
What You Think?
Springtime Decay
seattlecatholic.com/article_20040119.html
Shocking Facts Illustrating the Decline of the Church since Vatican II
latin-mass-society.org/figures.htm**
**Jared123 have you ever read this book?
AA-1025 The Memoirs of Anti-Apostle
tanbooks.com/index.php/pa…words/aa+1025/
It’s about a Communist injured in an auto accident in France;
he died in the hospital a few hours later.
The nurse who attended him kept his journals,
read them and published them as AA-1025.
He had become a Catholic priest to subvert the Church from within.
Describes his methods & plans. Says there were many more like him!
This would surely explain some of what’s been going on inside of
Holy Mother Church in the last 40 years!
Wouldn’t it? Maybe some of the scandals & abuses too!**
What You Think?
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Petergee
Guest
I think that if you avoided using so much bold font, giant coloured text, pushing “shocking” revelations about silly conspiracy theories, and actually addressed the topic of the thread, someone might take notice of what you have to say, instead of dismissing you as a puerile attention-seeker .
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chicago
Guest
That is conjecture which makes an awful lot of serious presumption going in to justify it’s predetermined conclusions.
There are actually some parishes which are very strong which many here would argue are quite unorthodox.
Cardinal George had a different take on this when he was asked about it at a Serra Club luncheon several years ago. He suggested that the key was not orthodoxy (not that he was knocking orthodoxy) so much as it was clarity of identity which provides the focus that attracts. These groups have an unambigous sense of what they are about which makes it easy to understand and communicate. That projects a strength and stability which people are willing to explore further and take the step of commiting themselves to the call.
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Pius_X
Guest
Well, on a few matters, they would disagree with the Pope, as would I, and my dad does not attend Mass on a regular basis, but that is not my business, or this forum’s, really.Pius X we are going around in circles here.
If your parents are faithful to the Magesterium of the Catholic Church we would get along great…
Answer this one question: You agree that the boys who refuse to serve need guidance. Should the girls be removed from their ministry because someone else has a maturity problem?
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Pius_X
Guest
Orthodoxy: Right teaching. Since Rome allowed female altar servers, does that mean that they gave us a wrong teaching, Jared?
By the way, I voted that they help vocations. I have a friend who is also an altar server, and he volunteered because his older sister was a server.
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Jared123
Guest
Peter,
Are you from Kansas?
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Jared123
Guest
Cardinal George is mincing words, probably because his audiance would cringe if they heard the word orthodox. We are surrounded by a secular culture that can be seen in all churches. There however is one Church that stands out among the others, that will attract people if if doesn’t cave into secularism. Orthodox Catholic dioceses and parishes project strength and stability which draw people as the Cardinal pointed out. If your diocese doesn’t look any different than a protestant diocese, why would this draw a person to that Church. It won’t. I am a convert to the faith (believe it or not), I was born and raised a Baptist. I moved to the Lincoln diocese 10 years ago. I went through a very tough time in my life and bascially found God. This happens to many. Now that I knew God existed I wanted to learn as much as I could about him. I looked into several different churches and denominations but they were all lacking something. Fortunantly I lived in a diocese that was very orthodox and had a good young priest that was right out of the seminary. He spent hours talking with me and teaching me about the Catholic Church. It didn’t take very long for me to realize that the Catholic Church was different than all the Protestant Churches. If I lived in a watered down diocese that seemed like just another protestant church there is no way I would of ever converted. The orthodoxy of the Church played a huge part in my conversion.
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