Voices of Moderate Catholicism and the Liturgical Reforms

[Loud-living-dogma]

I would like to reccomend a wonderful book entitled “Who Moved My Cheese” by Dr. Spencer Johnson. It is available on Amazon and has been around for quite some time. It will help everyone who has trouble accepting change, learn how to embrace it and make it work for them.

Hmm… sometimes change is good, sometimes change is for the worse. Usually it’s a mixed bag, and there had better be a good reason to throw out hundreds of years of traditions, rituals, prayers, customs. But yes, undoubtedly That Change worked out well…

 

[QwertyGirl]

When we have no control over the change(s), I think it is always worthwhile to explore our options. The book helps with that.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

My grandmother, born in 1917 in Australia, hated the changes. She never had a good word to say about v2 or the new mass. The biggest issue imo is the practical and abominable suppression of the latin mass until st. jpii and bxvi freed it. She never heard a latin mass after around 1970. That was vicious and cruel imo. And to think people today are so adamantly against the latin mass still that some will not tolerate even adding an additional latin mass at a perish that already has multiple OF masses, ala the priest in Tasmania that was assaulted for introducing a latin mass in addition to the OF.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Do you really think there are people like this?

They may prefer Latin but it is not “everything to them.

We weren’t just referring to Latin but the TLM prior to Vatican II and so to answer your questeion, do I really believe that there are people that the Mass, and specifically the TLM, is everything to them? Yes!

 

[edwest211]

The St. Joseph Daily Missal was not just available in one state or country.

 

[edwest211]

I would avoid that book at all costs.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

It’s quite banal. Everyone at the company I worked for had to read it. Must be nearly 20 years old now. It’s relevance to the Church or discussions of masses would be nil.

 

[QwertyGirl]

As I stated, it is a wonderful resource for people who have difficulty with change. I am not sure why you would avoid it. Perhaps you don’t perceive yourself as one who has trouble with accepting change and moving forward. If so, probably best for you not to spend your time reading it, as you wouldn’t be helped by it.

 

[edwest211]

Change is a kind of god for some, an idol. And the god Change demands constant change. The problem with that mindset is that I’ve seen the horrific devastation caused by these people regarding families, marriage and male-female relationships. Some change is very bad and should be rejected. Especially change created by bored people who are going to remake things to their liking even if force needs to be applied.

These people are like two different people. Claiming compassion one day, and ruthlessly and viciously attacking what they don’t like the next.

 

[QwertyGirl]

Some change is very bad and should be rejected.

100%

The book I recommended is for people when the change is neutral, or when it is something they have no control over but still seek to live a satisfactory life without having a chip on their shoulder about the change.

It is a good book.

 

[edwest211]

I reject “neutral” anything. As far as society is concerned, I lived through terrible social engineering projects. Those things need to be condemned.

 

[QwertyGirl]

Given your outlook, I a would agree that wouldn’t be a good book for you. I am glad you have decided you wouldn’t read it.

Hopefully, some others here may find the recommendation helpful.

 

[edwest211]

I am relating facts, not an outlook. I am uninterested in a concept called ‘perception management.’

 

[QwertyGirl]

Ed, if someone is experiencing a change in their workplace they have no control over, and they are having difficulty accepting it, this is a good book for them.

If someone is experiencing a change in their inter-personal relationships, and they are struggling with it but have no control over it, this is a good book for them to read.

If someone’s favorite restaurant shut down and they are having difficulting trying new restaurants because they can’t let go of the old one, this is a good book for them to read.

And, yes, if there are changes being made in their church, and they have no control over them but still want to be a member of that church, then this would be a good book for them to read. Assuming they want to get past the difficulty and part of their faith requires acceptance of the change.

Change can be hard. It never hurts to look for new strategies to understand why and what to do about it.

I am not sure what some of the claims you are making have anything to do with this. That is really all I have to say about it, so I won’t respond further.

 

[OraLabora]

Ed, if someone is experiencing a change in their workplace they have no control over, and they are having difficulty accepting it, this is a good book for them.

That’s the context in which I read it (and watched the videos), back many years ago, as I’ve been retired for the past 5 years, and left that particular industry (a dinosaur brick-and-mortar business, aka pulp and paper manufacturing) for the IT world, 17 years ago. In the IT world change is pretty much constant, and stability is an ephemeral concept. Fortunately I had my “Benedictine connection” to provide stability and sense, mostly through the structure provided by the Divine Office.

Alas most change in today’s world are changes we have very little control over, so it’s kind of adapt, die, or circle the wagons and live in our own created or imagined reality. I found adapting to be the far better, if not always easy as Ed points out, option.

And the biggest help for adapting, was my faith, because it provided me with a constant I could rely on, especially the Benedictine concept of stability, which is not to be confused with immobility.

 

[edwest211]

Living your faith today means rejecting fictional versions of society. The so-called “alternative lifestyles.” I’m not talking about my job. Which by the way, involves integration with different things. Those things are not the sick society being promoted today.

 

[jesusalright4me]

I truly do want to read that book. Though I think the consilium made mistakes, I think it is unfair for traditionalists to automatically assume he was bent on destroying the Church. He genuinly may have thought he was doing good, or his intentions could have been diabolical. We may never really know.

 

[jesusalright4me]

By elevated, I simply mean to say that given that they are Sacred Scripture, they are certainly of a higher dignity than modern hymns. If someone were to give me the choice to burn a Bible (or a Liber Usualis containing the texts of the Bible put to chant) or burn a modern praise and worship hymnal, I would choose the latter in a heartbeat. It does not really matter what language it is in; I actually am a strong proponent of vernacular chant done well in certain circumstances.

 

[pnewton]

Sacred Scripture, they are certainly of a higher dignity than modern hymns.

I would like to note that by this standard, “Eagle’s Wings” is more elevated than “Attende Domine.” “Jesus is Just Alright With Me,” not so much.

 

[jesusalright4me]

Ordering can matter in certain circumstances. For example, the fact that Peter is almost always listed first in the list of the Apostles in the New Testament is often used to show his importance over the other Apostles.