Vote a split ticket?

[chicago]

One of the things to realize is that in most areas, the races are pretty much decided at the Primary, really. This is because they are set up to be non-competitive; but foster a power base for the incumbant party which controls the area.

So if you live in a Republican heavy area, the dogcatcher will probably be a Republican.

What this generally means is that you have to work within your means to elect quality candidates (and more likely at Primary than General Election) within that party. Sure you can cast a “protest vote” the other way, but when that party’s candidate loses every time, what’s the difference? The other side of this is that it really does matter if the candidates who seemingly have no influence over things are on your side as far as important positions. Maybe the dogcatcher is pro-choice. So what, right? Wrong. For it is from this base that people will eventually climb up the ladder to more important places. It is also because of the power structure in fundraising and political machinary which they will solidify that candidates from their party for higher offer will receive support or lack therof. In fact, in some sense it may well be at these lower levels where we ought to focus more effort than we typically do, as this is where ultimate change or political strength may come in future years.

Given, for the higher levels of office we may be able to have a certain effect which tears beyond that veil, as we are electing on a statewide basis rather than a local one. So more consideration might be on order as to what sort of immediate effect such candidates will have in the office to which they are elected.

 

[SeekerJen]

Any of them running in your district?

No. Michigan has two pro-life Dems in Congress now, though. Hopefully they’ll start multiplying soon.

 

[gilliam]

One of the things to realize is that in most areas, the races are pretty much decided at the Primary, really. This is because they are set up to be non-competitive; but foster a power base for the incumbant party which controls the area.

So if you live in a Republican heavy area, the dogcatcher will probably be a Republican.

What this generally means is that you have to work within your means to elect quality candidates (and more likely at Primary than General Election) within that party. Sure you can cast a “protest vote” the other way, but when that party’s candidate loses every time, what’s the difference? The other side of this is that it really does matter if the candidates who seemingly have no influence over things are on your side as far as important positions. Maybe the dogcatcher is pro-choice. So what, right? Wrong. For it is from this base that people will eventually climb up the ladder to more important places. It is also because of the power structure in fundraising and political machinary which they will solidify that candidates from their party for higher offer will receive support or lack therof. In fact, in some sense it may well be at these lower levels where we ought to focus more effort than we typically do, as this is where ultimate change or political strength may come in future years.

Given, for the higher levels of office we may be able to have a certain effect which tears beyond that veil, as we are electing on a statewide basis rather than a local one. So more consideration might be on order as to what sort of immediate effect such candidates will have in the office to which they are elected.

 

[Ruthmary]

Is this directed at me? PC or not, I will not solely support one party or the other. I have no loyalty to either party. Neither is inherently good or evil IMO, both have good politicians and corrupt politicians. My point is that we can say “Republicans good, Democrats evil” until we’re blue in the face, but that does not change the fact that Republicans have held the Oval Office for 67% of the time since Roe v. Wade. Obviously solely supporting the Republicans is not enough.

And as for pro-life Democrats, unless there are pro-life Democrats to start with, how will the party ever change? Yes, they are fighting against a lot of opposition, but maybe instead of making fun of them we should support them. If we support them, there will be others. It seems simple to me.

Sounds like you’re frustrated–so am I, but we can’t just throw in the towel. You’re right, it’s not a matter of one side good and one side bad, but in this case, one side is supporting the right and other isn’t. The parties aren’t monoliths–they’re made up of people, and we can form them to our liking. We can keep them pro-life if we work at it. And ideally when the one party sees that all the people are going toward the party that supports life, they’ll change in order to attract the people. I know that’s ideal, and probably won’t happen but we have to be idealists. Sure it’s been a long time, but remember that this is a spiritual fight, too. The Church has been around a long tiime, and will go on fighting long after we’re gone. We’ve just got to stay on the right side.

I think that since Catholics are fighting each other so much it’s going to be reflected in the society at large, and is going to make it all so much more difficult. Certainly the devil is behind this, and it makes me sad to read all these threads on voting.

 

[geezerbob]

I’ve been voting a split ticket for 30+ years and will do so this year. We have a relative newcomer to politics running as the incumbent in a statewide election who has demonstrated his immaturity and disregard of the law numerous times. No matter who I may vote for (or against) in other races, this joker sure isn’t going to get my vote.

 

[mary_bobo]

My only fear is that they did not support these issues when it counted. To jump on the bandwagon only after loosing the last two elections looks a bit suspicious to me. We all know how Our Lord felt about “whitened sepulchres”.

And don’t forget, a politician can vote one way one time and the total opposite the next. That way they can tell constituents what they want to hear.

 

[rlg94086]

Hi SeekerJen,

I would humbly submit that you consider changing your party affiliation. There are pro-life politicians who need support in both the Democrat and Republican primaries. As a registered Independant, you aren’t helping them. You seem to like the Democrats, so why not register Democrat and affect change in the party? You can still vote for a Republican on the national ticket, if it’s the best pro-life option.

Of course, you could also register for a “third party”, but personally, I think they are a waste of time.

God bless,

Robert

Is this directed at me? PC or not, I will not solely support one party or the other. I have no loyalty to either party. Neither is inherently good or evil IMO, both have good politicians and corrupt politicians. My point is that we can say “Republicans good, Democrats evil” until we’re blue in the face, but that does not change the fact that Republicans have held the Oval Office for 67% of the time since Roe v. Wade. Obviously solely supporting the Republicans is not enough.

And as for pro-life Democrats, unless there are pro-life Democrats to start with, how will the party ever change? Yes, they are fighting against a lot of opposition, but maybe instead of making fun of them we should support them. If we support them, there will be others. It seems simple to me.

 

[aimee]

Hi SeekerJen,

I would humbly submit that you consider changing your party affiliation. There are pro-life politicians who need support in both the Democrat and Republican primaries. As a registered Independant, you aren’t helping them. You seem to like the Democrats, so why not register Democrat and affect change in the party? You can still vote for a Republican on the national ticket, if it’s the best pro-life option.

Of course, you could also register for a “third party”, but personally, I think they are a waste of time.

God bless,

Robert

We don’t have to register as either party…

 

[mary_bobo]

We don’t have to register as either party…

Some states are like that. Mine is not. Too bad there is not a uniform set of rules in the whole country. Florida’s laws are what caused all the trouble there in 2000.

 

[rlg94086]

Well, in most states you do, if you want to vote in a Democratic or Republican primary. Perhaps, your state is different. I think there are some that have an open primary (which is stupid in my opinion…why should Democrats get to vote on who the Republican candidate should be? And vice versa, of course.).

We don’t have to register as either party…

 

[Thomas_B]

My only fear is that they did not support these issues when it counted. To jump on the bandwagon only after loosing the last two elections looks a bit suspicious to me. We all know how Our Lord felt about “whitened sepulchres”.

Jerome,

This just isn’t true. The Partial Birth Abortion Ban counted and there were 63 House Democrats and 17 Senate Democrats that voted for the ban. I would also note that there were 4 House Republicans and 3 Senate Republicans that voted against the ban, and another 7 House Republicans and 1 Senate Republican that didn’t even bother to vote.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial-Birth_Abortion_Ban_Act

Whether certain politicians are just “jumping on the pro-life bandwagon” who knows, only the Lord knows. What’s important to us as voters and Catholics is that they are representing our views.

Ultimately, I just look at the candidate for their record on pro-life issues and other issues that matter to me whether they be Republican, Democrat, Green, Red, Blue, whatever.

 

[Thomas_B]

Sounds like you’re frustrated–so am I, but we can’t just throw in the towel. You’re right, it’s not a matter of one side good and one side bad, but in this case, one side is supporting the right and other isn’t. The parties aren’t monoliths–they’re made up of people, and we can form them to our liking. We can keep them pro-life if we work at it. And ideally when the one party sees that all the people are going toward the party that supports life, they’ll change in order to attract the people. I know that’s ideal, and probably won’t happen but we have to be idealists. Sure it’s been a long time, but remember that this is a spiritual fight, too. The Church has been around a long tiime, and will go on fighting long after we’re gone. We’ve just got to stay on the right side.

I think that since Catholics are fighting each other so much it’s going to be reflected in the society at large, and is going to make it all so much more difficult. Certainly the devil is behind this, and it makes me sad to read all these threads on voting.

Ruthmary,

Thank you for this thoughtful and charitable post to Jen. Oftentimes I notice threads like this just degenerate into vitriolic rhetoric about Republicans being good and Democrats being evil. I blame many of our political leaders for setting a bad example through mudslinging campaigns and their irresponsible hate rhetoric.

I respect your view about supporting a party to because they have the right position on the issue of abortion and other ‘life’ issues. But as you say, parties aren’t monoliths, they are comprised of people. And since people can change, this means that the Democratic Party might change some day as well. So in the meantime, if a person with Democratic sympathies finds a Democratic candidate who is pro-life, or if both candidates are pro-choice, then I think they should go for it and vote for the Democrat. I’m personally encouraged by the fact that there are a good handful of pro-lifers in the Democratic Party- the more pro-lifers the better right?

There is one point that I may disagree with you on and that is the use of the word ‘fight’. If you mean ‘strive toward’ that I think we’re in agreement. But if you mean an agressive attack against another with a different point of view then I wouldn’t agree. I think a lot more can be accomplished through reaching out to those with different views and attempting to educate them rather than battling them for having the ‘wrong’ views. I think there is too much of that going on in the world, especially pro-life issues, and rather causing pro-choicers to change their position, I think it just causes them to become more entrenched in their positions and hate pro-lifers even more.

 

[m134e5]

Hi SeekerJen,

I would humbly submit that you consider changing your party affiliation. There are pro-life politicians who need support in both the Democrat and Republican primaries. As a registered Independant, you aren’t helping them. You seem to like the Democrats, so why not register Democrat and affect change in the party? You can still vote for a Republican on the national ticket, if it’s the best pro-life option.

Of course, you could also register for a “third party”, but personally, I think they are a waste of time.

God bless,

Robert

Why register for a political party you don’t agree with (at least mostly). I wasn’t even given the option to register in a political party when I registered to vote- and I’m just fine with that. I’m conservative on most moral issues, but there are many policies the Republican party has taken that I don’t like either- so I don’t really fit anywhere. I have the Church- I don’t need a political party.

 

[rlg94086]

Don’t then…I already explained the reasoning to do so. If you register unaffiliated or independant, you can’t help to elect pro-life candidates in the primaries. Even if you lean Republican, maybe you’d like to help out the Democrats in their need for pro-lifers.

Just because you register with a party, doesn’t mean you agree with everything they do. I’m just giving practical advice.

Why register for a political party you don’t agree with (at least mostly). I wasn’t even given the option to register in a political party when I registered to vote- and I’m just fine with that. I’m conservative on most moral issues, but there are many policies the Republican party has taken that I don’t like either- so I don’t really fit anywhere. I have the Church- I don’t need a political party.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Don’t then…I already explained the reasoning to do so. If you register unaffiliated or independant, you can’t help to elect pro-life candidates in the primaries. Even if you lean Republican, maybe you’d like to help out the Democrats in their need for pro-lifers.

Just because you register with a party, doesn’t mean you agree with everything they do. I’m just giving practical advice.

Given that I haven’t changed my registration from Republican to Democrat, I can attest to the truth of the last paragraph of rlg’s post.

 

[maryj]

Democrats for Life

Again, one should always do one’s homework rather than vote straight-ticket based on common perceptions of the parties.

And Again, one should always do one’s homework…
look at the picture in the link you provided and then read this…straight from Catholic answerscaaction.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36&Itemid=73
How easy it is for us to make mistakes.

 

[SeekerJen]

And Again, one should always do one’s homework…
look at the picture in the link you provided and then read this…straight from Catholic answerscaaction.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36&Itemid=73
How easy it is for us to make mistakes.

Last I checked, James Carville was a political consultant and pundit, not an elected official. He can say whatever he likes, doesn’t change the fact that not all Republicans are saintly and not all Democrats are evil. Is Democrats For Life perfect? No. They can’t immediately overturn all that their party has held dear for decades. But they are a hopeful start.

 

[Thomas_B]

And Again, one should always do one’s homework…
look at the picture in the link you provided and then read this…straight from Catholic answerscaaction.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36&Itemid=73
How easy it is for us to make mistakes.

Hi Maryj,

I’m confused. What is the point you are trying to make with the pictures on the Democrats for Life website. The pictures I see are a pro-life politician standing with, I’m guessing, a couple of members of the Democrats for Life organization. On the banner there is a picture of an older couple, maybe grandparents, next to pictures of babies and in the background are pictures of the White House, the Lincoln Memorial, and the Capitol building. On the side bar is a picture of a pregnant woman and a link for pregnancy resources.

The fact that James Carville may be spinning the ‘pro-life’ issue to get Democrats elected isn’t a surprise. He’s a political strategist and that’s what they do. Republican strategists do the same thing. And spinning will be around as long as there is politics. But I actually take heart from the fact that a top Democratic strategist is finally taking notice of how important ‘life’ issues are to voters and how to address them. So long as good Catholics keep working to teach others about the truth about ‘life’, I think it is only a matter of time before the Democratic Party will wake up and smell the coffee and drop its pro-choice plank.

 

[maryj]

Hi Maryj,

I’m confused. What is the point you are trying to make with the pictures on the Democrats for Life website. The pictures I see are a pro-life politician standing with, I’m guessing, a couple of members of the Democrats for Life organization. On the banner there is a picture of an older couple, maybe grandparents, next to pictures of babies and in the background are pictures of the White House, the Lincoln Memorial, and the Capitol building. On the side bar is a picture of a pregnant woman and a link for pregnancy resources.

The fact that James Carville may be spinning the ‘pro-life’ issue to get Democrats elected isn’t a surprise. He’s a political strategist and that’s what they do. Republican strategists do the same thing. And spinning will be around as long as there is politics. But I actually take heart from the fact that a top Democratic strategist is finally taking notice of how important ‘life’ issues are to voters and how to address them. So long as good Catholics keep working to teach others about the truth about ‘life’, I think it is only a matter of time before the Democratic Party will wake up and smell the coffee and drop its pro-choice plank.

Dear Thomas, did you read the link posted from CA? the picture in the Democrats for life reads"Groups that support reducing the abortion rate in america" That is not a Pro-life statement, that is not the beliefs of the catholic church. 55 CATHOLIC member of congress recently issued a" statement of principles" It states in essence that they want to support the churchs’ teachings on moral issues, but they can’t quite bring themselves to do it. Especially when it comes to abortion. They envision a world were every child belongs to a loving family and they agree with the catholic church about the value of human life and the undesirability of abortion.They do not celebrate it’s practice, they are each committed to reducing the number of abortions in this country. COMMITTED to REDUCING the NUMBER OF ABORTIONS. Our one and only COMMITTMENT we have as catholics over this issue is LIFE, the committment to life. Like it or not, one of the biggest committments these “catholics” have made this election year is to make you think they are pro-life, they are not, they are pro-choice no matter how you cut up the political pie. I find it very offensive that a political party would use such strategy, and yes, sir, it is a surprise to me that the democratic party would let it even happen. Talk about lack of morality. I inform myself by finding out the voting records of politicians, and even those can be scued, I will vote for life. We don’t get to be catholic and pro-choice. So if you still think those people standing in that picture holding that poster are pro-life politicians, then you mistaken, and James Carville has done his job.

 

[maryj]

Last I checked, James Carville was a political consultant and pundit, not an elected official. He can say whatever he likes, doesn’t change the fact that not all Republicans are saintly and not all Democrats are evil. Is Democrats For Life perfect? No. They can’t immediately overturn all that their party has held dear for decades. But they are a hopeful start.

When the home page of an organization posts a picture of politicians holding a sign that says, “Groups that support reducing the abortion rate in america” and touts itself as supporters of life, makes me wonder… Pro-life… no way. When have you ever heard or read a pro-life statment that says “we support the reduction of abortions in america”? James Carville can say whatever he likes, that’s the point, he gets paid a ton of money to help,politicians say what they think you wanna hear. I never indicated that I thought all republicans were saintly and all dems evil, abortion is evil, and when a party “wants” you to think it’s members are pro-life by twisting words (which Catholic answers has given us proof of) it would give me pause to think. You can’t possibly think that Catholic Answers Action would be lieing do you?