VOTF

[TPJCatholic]

katherine,

VOTF wants the Church to be fully accountable and fully transparent to the laity–they claim they want this so that abuses will not happen again. Now, I have no issue with that, yet if it is good for the Church, then it is good for lay groups as well. The VOTF should provide information regarding every one of its members in the same manner that it wants the Church to do with every Priest, Bishop and Deacon.

In most dioceses in the United States there are now fairly extensive background checks done on people who want to become Catechists, etc., and those people often have to go through training in order to spot abuse, etc. That is all good stuff…yet let’s apply that to everyone equally and not just to those serving the Church.

VOTF claims to have an honorable mission–well they have the chance to prove that…they can let us do background checks on all of their leaders and place accountability on each of VOTF actions items.
Would VOTF still exist if they had to live under the same background checks and the same transparency they expect and demand from the Church?

 

[aridite]

katherine2:

Hey, if those are the rules everyone should play by (the bishops, priests, Catholic Answers, EWTN, the Wanderer, etc.), I’m open to it.

So you would be open to VOTF making a detailed statement of fidelity to the magisterium addressing those issues (contraception, married clergy, women priests) that some of us are confused about their position on? I would ask the same of bishops, priests, CA, EWTN, the Wanderer, even asking for different clarifications from different entities (e.g., the Church’s social teaching for anyone who seemed to be denying it). But, we’re talking about VOTF. You think VOTF should explicitly allay these fears about heterodoxy?

 

[kliner]

the book that is mentioned on their page (free with membership) speaks of the Church as needing to become a democracy. that doesn’t seem to have anything to do with their “mission.”

it seems to me that they’re attempting at gaining authority where it cannot be theirs. i am on the side of the wolves disguised as sheep.

for those who find it hard to do without a group such as votf, remember that this Church will never sink. the gates of hell will not prevail against her. be aware of the new springtime that Pope John Paul II has spoken of. maybe try listening to Alex Jones or Father John Corapi. visit www.saintjoe.com.

May God bless us and keep us.

 

[Lorarose]

Your family members lied to you. The fact that critics of VOTF need to resort to the most baseless lies speaks volumes about VOTF’s critics. it is very sad that certain people are so threatened by VOTF’s admirable mission that they will even commit vile sins to try to harm VOTF.

This is too funny!

No - I was not lied to.
Yes - they took pictures.

It did not appear that VOTF was the least bit bashful about the position they took at this protest.
Why don’t you contact them and ask them about this?

 

[aimee]

From their mission statement, they are attempting to “3. Shape structural change within Church.” This is intended to make a “democratic” Church which clearly violates the hierarchical structure which has always existed and is reemphasized in Vatican II Lumen Gentium. The chairman James Muller states in a National Catholic Reporter article on April 26, 2002, “We have donation without representation, and we have to change that.” Also on a CNN interview dated April 29, 2002, the chairman desires cafeteria Catholicism: “… our goal is to provide a democracy for the laity, so that the laity can decide what they want and then counterbalance the absolute power, which we have now of the hierarchy.” See more details below.
ourladyswarriors.org/

 

[Theodred]

What has VOTF actually done to protect a single child?

How much trouble has VOTF stirred up by promoting and giving dissenters a podium from which to speak?

So by their fruits you will know them (Matt 7:20).

 

[jeffreedy789]

forgive me for asking what might already have been addressed, but i did a search on this thread, and didn’t see it. what does votf stand for? i mean the letters themselves. and could someone sum up what they DO teach? i could google it, but then we’d ALL have to google it. could someone sum up here?

 

[Theodred]

Voice of the Fallen… errrrr… Faithful. It is a lay group mostly on the east coast that is calling for reform and renewal in light of the priest sex scandal. That’s all fine and dandy, but they allow dissenters to use thier group to promote various heresies including the movement to make the Church into a constitutional democracy, support of women priests, pro-choice, and anti-Humanae Vitae, etc., etc., etc… Basically, many of the people using VOTF as their soapbox are advocates of the very infedility that caused the priest sex scandal to begin with. The question is, was VOTF hijacked by dissenters, or did the founders possess a hidden agenda all along?

 

[katherine2]

Lorarose:

This is too funny!

No - I was not lied to.
Yes - they took pictures.

It did not appear that VOTF was the least bit bashful about the position they took at this protest.
Why don’t you contact them and ask them about this?

I have. They have said that VOTF has never participated in a pro-abortion rally at the Vatican Embassy or anywhere else and any representation that they did is false. Why don’t you post the photos proving VOTF was supporting abortion?

I note no one has take me up on my bet. Little chickens.

 

[katherine2]

TPJCatholic:

katherine,

VOTF wants the Church to be fully accountable and fully transparent to the laity–they claim they want this so that abuses will not happen again. Now, I have no issue with that, yet if it is good for the Church, then it is good for lay groups as well. The VOTF should provide information regarding every one of its members** in the same manner** that it wants the Church to do with every Priest, Bishop and Deacon.

Ahhh, backing away from your original statement. Or, alternatively, entirely unaware of what you are posting. Yes teh Catholic Church does background checks on those working with children. No, it does not make those background checks public documents.

Do you have a single thread of consistancy?

 

[katherine2]

kliner:

the book that is mentioned on their page (free with membership) speaks of the Church as needing to become a democracy. that doesn’t seem to have anything to do with their “mission.”

Could you cite where in the book it says that or is this just another made up claim?

 

[katherine2]

Théodred:

Voice of the … Faithful. It is a lay group mostly on the east coast that is calling for reform and renewal in light of the priest sex scandal. That’s all fine and dandy, but they allow dissenters to use thier group …QUOTE]

Gee, just like Catholic Answers Forum?

 

[aimee]

katherine2:

Théodred:

Voice of the … Faithful. It is a lay group mostly on the east coast that is calling for reform and renewal in light of the priest sex scandal. That’s all fine and dandy, but they allow dissenters to use thier group …QUOTE]

Gee, just like Catholic Answers Forum?

I 'm trying to understand…do you support VOTF ? What do you think of CTA?

 

[TPJCatholic]

Katherine,

I have not changed any statements. I feel that the VOTF should be as open as they want the Church to be. That has been my consistent statement; I am not sure where you are coming from on your point about consistency.

However, I do find it interesting that you have routinely avoided the main thrust of my messages. You have completely avoided the notion of the VOTF being subjected to the same strict transparency that they would have the Church obey. Is there a reason you have not responded to the main theme of my messages?

I have not attacked the VOTF, even though you seem to think I have. My point is this: what is good for the Church, should be equally good for the VOTF and any lay group. If the VOTF proves to be unwillingly to be completely open and transparent, then what does that say about that group?

Question: If a parent tells his child not to smoke, yet that parent smokes, what message is the child “really” receiving?

Likewise: If the VOTF demands openness and transparency from the Church, yet is unwilling to be open and transparent themselves, what message are the VOTF “really” sending?

If the VOTF is populated by faithful Roman Catholics, then they should certainly be willing to prove they are truly faithful–they should be eager to prove their faithfulness to the Magisterium and to all Catholic teachings.

 

[aridite]

katherine2:

I note no one has take me up on my bet. Little chickens.

You do like name calling! Who would take a wager the terms of which have not been revealed? Oh yeah, full disclosure is not the hallmark of VOTF.

 

[katherine2]

TPJCatholic:

Katherine,

I have not changed any statements. I feel that the VOTF should be as open as they want the Church to be. That has been my consistent statement; I am not sure where you are coming from on your point about consistency.

However, I do find it interesting that you have routinely avoided the main thrust of my messages. You have completely avoided the notion of the VOTF being subjected to the same strict transparency that they would have the Church obey. Is there a reason you have not responded to the main theme of my messages?

I have not attacked the VOTF, even though you seem to think I have. My point is this: what is good for the Church, should be equally good for the VOTF and any lay group. If the VOTF proves to be unwillingly to be completely open and transparent, then what does that say about that group?

Question: If a parent tells his child not to smoke, yet that parent smokes, what message is the child “really” receiving?

Likewise: If the VOTF demands openness and transparency from the Church, yet is unwilling to be open and transparent themselves, what message are the VOTF “really” sending?

If the VOTF is populated by faithful Roman Catholics, then they should certainly be willing to prove they are truly faithful–they should be eager to prove their faithfulness to the Magisterium and to all Catholic teachings.

Dear friend,

Maybe I have not been kind and understanding to you.

Here is the problem. You post “let us see extensive background information on every leading member of VOTF (what groups, orgs, companies, associations they belonged to, along with mental histories, criminal histories, finanical histories, etc.).”

and then say they should be transparent IN THE SAME WAY as the church.

I assure you whatever background checks the church does, they are not shared with the public. Therefore IN THE SAME WAY, I don’t see why you expect VOTF to share background reports with you.

Is this clear?

 

[katherine2]

aridite:

Who would take a wager the terms of which have not been revealed? Oh yeah, full disclosure is not the hallmark of VOTF.

You propose the terms, dear, but make the amount something big enough to be worth my while.

 

[aridite]

katherine2:

You propose the terms, dear, but make the amount something big enough to be worth my while.

You proposed some wager or other. What are we wagering on? How can I possible know how much I would want to risk if I don’t know the wager?!?! I would not be brave to offer you my Latin Summa Theologiae (which I am not) on an unknown wager, I would be a fool!

Again, this is full discloser?!?!

Just so you know, I am generally not a betting man, so I probably won’t take you bet no matter what it is. I don’t wnat to mislead you. Call me a chicken or any other name you want. I just think someone who posts to a public forum ought to at least tell people what she is talking about!

 

[Weeorphan]

In reading these postings, rather than respond to the charges listed against VOTF leadership, I thought it best to contact VOTF public relations department and invite their informed rebuttal. “Cafeteria religion” (in promoting abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia, divorce, etc), democratically elected clergy, female priests, etc,etc, are truly serious accusations, for all are against Church doctrine. Let them answer why they tolerate liberal leaning speakers who promote these deviant concepts at their conventions. Let them reveal the stance of their top leaders on all these issues. Let’s see if VOTF has the courage for such total transparency.

 

[jeffreedy789]

i assume you’ll let us know what you hear?